All NBA Team.....

[REHawksFan]

Firstly, I know the ballots are due sometime today, but when will the teams be announced?  

Secondly, so far, I've seen 6 writers give out their ALL NBA teams (some of them their final ballot and others weren't clear on that) with Trae making 2nd team once, 3rd team 4 times and one guy just saying he's a slam dunk for his ballot but not giving any details yet.  

Here's what I've found so far......feel free to add to these:

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2022/4/8/23015564/all-nba-teams-awards-defense-rookie

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/who-i-would-select-my-all-nba-teams/zyoqbylbhtpl2gsj6hsscjuc

From Chris Kirshner of The Athletic:

Small note on Trae Young

Young became the second player in NBA history to lead the league in both total points (2,155) and total assists (737) in the same season, joining Nate “Tiny” Archibald who accomplished the feat in the 1972-1973 season.

NBA awards ballots are due Monday. It’s always an honor to vote on postseason awards and something I do not take lightly. Young is a lock for All-NBA for me. He’s been nothing short of special this season.

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2022/04/08/2022-pbt-awards-all-nba/

And finally, here's Chris Broussard's 3rd team:

 

 

[REHawksFan]

Here's another:

https://www.overtimeheroics.net/2022/04/11/overtime-heroics-2022-all-nba-third-team/

[REHawksFan]

And here's an article that references notorious Trae-hater Bill Simmons' opinions:

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/why-bill-simmons-has-trae-young-over-steph-curry-all-nba-second-team

[Diesel]

Seems like they are trying to appease Trae with this 3rd team bid?  Trae has shown better than any of the guards that they have in front of him with the one exception.. Luka.  Trae should be first team all nba.  No lower than 2nd team.   3rd team to me is disrespect because they are not 4 guards who had a better season than Trae. 

 

[REHawksFan]

16 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Seems like they are trying to appease Trae with this 3rd team bid?  Trae has shown better than any of the guards that they have in front of him with the one exception.. Luka.  Trae should be first team all nba.  No lower than 2nd team.   3rd team to me is disrespect because they are not 4 guards who had a better season than Trae. 

 

Completely agree.  But Booker is a lock for 1st team due to his season and the Suns season.  Then it becomes Luka vs Trae and this is the media we are talking about.  They aren't voting Trae ahead of Luka, at least not yet.  So it's likely Luka / Booker 1st team and then *hopefully* Trae on 2nd team.  I'd personally put Trae ahead of Luka but can't see it shaking out that way this year.  

My hope is a 2nd team this year will open eyes to allow a 1st team next year.  After all, Trae seems to be an acquired taste for some. LOL

[Sothron]

Trae should be first team All NBA. But him even making All NBA is going to be a gigantic admission by national media that have hated on him since he got drafted.

[REHawksFan]

Here's Mike Greenberg:  All NBA starts at 1:55 (Trae 3rd team)

 

[kg01]

How can a guy be all-NBA if his team wins at a far greater clip when he sits?

If Trae's team was 20-2 in his absence, we'd be hearing about how empty his stats are.  We certainly wouldn't be debating all-NBA status.  That's a travesty.

[REHawksFan]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

How can a guy be all-NBA if his team wins at a far greater clip when he sits?

If Trae's team was 20-2 in his absence, we'd be hearing about how empty his stats are.  We certainly wouldn't be debating all-NBA status.  That's a travesty.

Agreed. Ja is the one that is the most nonsensical to me.  His team is better when he's not on the floor.  And if you compare his states to Trae, it's not even close. Trae blows him out of the water in every area except rebounds, 2pt%, and defensive rating.  But you got some saying he should be 1st team?  Nah. MAYBE 3rd team behind Trae, Luka, Steph, and CP3, imo. 

[AHF]

15 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Agreed. Ja is the one that is the most nonsensical to me.  His team is better when he's not on the floor.  And if you compare his states to Trae, it's not even close. Trae blows him out of the water in every area except rebounds, 2pt%, and defensive rating.  But you got some saying he should be 1st team?  Nah. MAYBE 3rd team behind Trae, Luka, Steph, and CP3, imo. 

I don’t buy into the narrative that Memphis is better without ja.  So I’m not opposed to him being in the mix for All-NBA.  But Trae is clearly better and had the better season and should be recognized accordingly.

[NBASupes]

Trae finished extremely strong. Was 55 wins worth on offense and while his defense was still WOAT level overall (-20). He had finished the last couple of months with a +35 wins which is higher than his 25-30 wins. JC was on a +35 pace till the injury and he regressed to 30 wins. Trae was officially the best player for the first time ever as a RS player for the Hawks in terms of impact. 

The other big wins was Bogi finished +25 and Gallo did as well. OO flashed +25 potential as a sophomore. 

Kevin and Hunter struggled this year. Neither was much more than rotational, especially Hunter. 

Capela dropped from 45 wins to 30 wins. This was unrealistic as teams downloaded the Hawks this year. Its completely unrealistic to expect 25 wins from Capela on offense anyway. Spamming the 1/5 PnR when Nate took over for LP was always fool's gold to the degree we had success from it. 

Trae deserves all NBA to me. 35 wins isn't nothing special but when you are worth 55 wins on offense, f*** outta here. That's a all NBA superstar. 

[REHawksFan]

45 minutes ago, AHF said:

I don’t buy into the narrative that Memphis is better without ja.  So I’m not opposed to him being in the mix for All-NBA.  But Trae is clearly better and had the better season and should be recognized accordingly.

I kind of agree.  I don't actually believe Memphis is better without him, but the whole being 20-5 when he doesn't play with some pretty lopsided victories just kind of negates his overall impact on that team to a degree, imo.  I mean, 25 games is a fairly large sample size.  Here are a few of their notable wins without Ja:

• Dal by 7
• Mia by 15
• Philly by 35
• Bkn by 12
• Mil by 25
• GSW by 28
• Suns by 8
• OKC by 73! 
• Sac by 27

They weren't exactly squeaking by without Ja.  They were dominating bad teams and good to great teams alike.  Grizzlies had a NETRtg of +4.9 when Ja played and +6.6 when he didn't.  That's not nothing.  

I think he deserves All NBA consideration, I just don't think he deserves it above Trae.  

Edited April 11, 2022 by REHawksFan

[thecampster]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

Seems like they are trying to appease Trae with this 3rd team bid?  Trae has shown better than any of the guards that they have in front of him with the one exception.. Luka.  Trae should be first team all nba.  No lower than 2nd team.   3rd team to me is disrespect because they are not 4 guards who had a better season than Trae. 

 

Can you justify the Luka has shown better?

Luka 28.4, 9.1, 8.7, 45.7, 35.3 - 65 games played.

Trae 28.4, 3.7, 9.7, 46, 38.2 - 76 games played.

Trae only loses to him in rebounds.

 

Now you can make an argument of defense but most of those metrics are team based. (82games.com) One easy metric is that while Trae is on the floor, the opposing PG averages a 20.5 PER.  Now Luka, depending on lineups, plays PG or SG and the average based on when he's playing is 16.8 PER.  The problem with most of these metrics is team defense/strategy/injuries/pace/etc plays a large role in determining those. I wouldn't make the argument Luka was equal to or better than Trae this year. His efficiencies and offensive impact are too great.  Luka benefits from playing with a far superior defensive team and playing at a slower pace...they score 5.9 less points per game than the Hawks but hold opponents to 7.7 less.  I contend Luka is a bigger defensive liability than Trae but Dallas is capable of hiding it better.

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

Completely agree.  But Booker is a lock for 1st team due to his season and the Suns season.  Then it becomes Luka vs Trae and this is the media we are talking about.  They aren't voting Trae ahead of Luka, at least not yet.  So it's likely Luka / Booker 1st team and then *hopefully* Trae on 2nd team.  I'd personally put Trae ahead of Luka but can't see it shaking out that way this year.  

My hope is a 2nd team this year will open eyes to allow a 1st team next year.  After all, Trae seems to be an acquired taste for some. LOL

When did All NBA become about Team accomplishments?  IF that be the case then all the Suns should be all NBA followed by All of the Grizzlies. 

 

[AHF]

Just now, REHawksFan said:

I kind of agree.  I don't actually believe Memphis is better without him, but the whole being 20-5 when he doesn't play with some pretty lopsided victories just kind of negates his overall impact on that team to a degree, imo.  Here are a few of their notable wins without Ja:

• Dal by 7
• Mia by 15
• Philly by 35
• Bkn by 12
• Mil by 25
• GSW by 28
• Suns by 8
• OKC by 73! 
• Sac by 27

They weren't exactly squeaking by without Ja.  They were dominating bad teams and good to great teams alike.  Grizzlies had a NETRtg of +4.9 when Ja played and +6.6 when he didn't.  That's not nothing.  

I think he deserves All NBA consideration, I just don't think he deserves it above Trae.  

My takeaway is that Memphis is a good (not great) team even without Ja.  I don't think they are as good as their record suggests without him, and I think they can only be great with Ja.  But it is very clear that Memphis is not a winning team just because of Ja or anything.  So it does speak to how essential he is to their floor.

I fully agree with you on him not deserving it above Trae.  To that end, I think the team's record without Ja should eliminate the "give it to the guy on the better team" approach for voters.  But the core of why Ja doesn't deserve it above Trae is because Trae has been significantly better than Ja this season.  That is what ends the discussion for me.  Trae has been clearly better so he needs to be the one getting votes ahead of Ja outside the state of Tennessee and if that happens then it doesn't offend me if Ja is All-NBA because they think he has been better than other guards.

[Diesel]

7 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Can you justify the Luka has shown better?

Luka 28.4, 9.1, 8.7, 45.7, 35.3 - 65 games played.

Trae 28.4, 3.7, 9.7, 46, 38.2 - 76 games played.

Trae only loses to him in rebounds.

 

Now you can make an argument of defense but most of those metrics are team based. (82games.com) One easy metric is that while Trae is on the floor, the opposing PG averages a 20.5 PER.  Now Luka, depending on lineups, plays PG or SG and the average based on when he's playing is 16.8 PER.  The problem with most of these metrics is team defense/strategy/injuries/pace/etc plays a large role in determining those. I wouldn't make the argument Luka was equal to or better than Trae this year. His efficiencies and offensive impact are too great.  Luka benefits from playing with a far superior defensive team and playing at a slower pace...they score 5.9 less points per game than the Hawks but hold opponents to 7.7 less.  I contend Luka is a bigger defensive liability than Trae but Dallas is capable of hiding it better.

I give Luka the slight nod because of rebounds.   In reality, I don't consider Luka a PG but since the category is Gaurd, I won't fuss about it. 

 

[AHF]

8 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Can you justify the Luka has shown better?

Luka 28.4, 9.1, 8.7, 45.7, 35.3 - 65 games played.

Trae 28.4, 3.7, 9.7, 46, 38.2 - 76 games played.

Trae only loses to him in rebounds.

 

Now you can make an argument of defense but most of those metrics are team based. (82games.com) One easy metric is that while Trae is on the floor, the opposing PG averages a 20.5 PER.  Now Luka, depending on lineups, plays PG or SG and the average based on when he's playing is 16.8 PER.  The problem with most of these metrics is team defense/strategy/injuries/pace/etc plays a large role in determining those. I wouldn't make the argument Luka was equal to or better than Trae this year. His efficiencies and offensive impact are too great.  Luka benefits from playing with a far superior defensive team and playing at a slower pace...they score 5.9 less points per game than the Hawks but hold opponents to 7.7 less.  I contend Luka is a bigger defensive liability than Trae but Dallas is capable of hiding it better.

Here is the big one for me.  

Trae .603% TS%

Luka .571% TS%

Trae > Luka this season

[Diesel]

Just now, AHF said:

My takeaway is that Memphis is a good (not great) team even without Ja.  I don't think they are as good as their record suggests without him, and I think they can only be great with Ja.  But it is very clear that Memphis is not a winning team just because of Ja or anything.  So it does speak to how essential he is to their floor.

I fully agree with you on him not deserving it above Trae.  To that end, I think the team's record without Ja should eliminate the "give it to the guy on the better team" approach for voters.  But the core of why Ja doesn't deserve it above Trae is because Trae has been significantly better than Ja this season.  That is what ends the discussion for me.  Trae has been clearly better so he needs to be the one getting votes ahead of Ja outside the state of Tennessee and if that happens then it doesn't offend me if Ja is All-NBA because they think he has been better than other guards.

OK AHF... Since you been beating this drum, let me hit you with the litmus.

Put Ja on the Hawks and Put Trae on the Grizz...

What happens?

I say the Hawks miss the play in... in the lottery... and The Grizz maybe win the West. 

 

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

OK AHF... Since you been beating this drum, let me hit you with the litmus.

Put Ja on the Hawks and Put Trae on the Grizz...

What happens?

I say the Hawks miss the play in... in the lottery... and The Grizz maybe win the West. 

 

Hawks are worse and the Grizzlies are better because Trae is better than Ja.  Atlanta would have to be 6 games worse to fall to the 11 seed and I don't think that would happen.  Would Trae be enough to make up the 8 game gap between Memphis and Phoenix?  Probably not but it would be fascinating to see.

I guess if I had to guess, I'd say the Hawks would still be in the play-in (maybe with a .500 record as the 10 seed rather than being tied for 9/10) and Memphis would still be 2nd but would be sitting at something like 61-21.

[REHawksFan]

21 minutes ago, Diesel said:

When did All NBA become about Team accomplishments?  IF that be the case then all the Suns should be all NBA followed by All of the Grizzlies. 

 

To be clear...I don't think team success SHOULD be a determining factor for an individual award, I'm just saying RE: Booker that it will be.  Booker has had a hell of a statistical season and has put up the best numbers on the best team.  So there are going to be media dudes that say he has to be on 1st team.  

My problem is more with just assuming Luka is better than Trae this year because the Mavs are the 4th seed while the Hawks are the 9th seed.