The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.

[terrell]

6 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Ayton news:

 

 

HAWKS pistons blazers hornets

 

Last offseason, Phoenix balked at the five-year, $170 million-plus maximum figure during Early Bird negotiations with Ayton's representatives. The Suns then quietly gauged his trade value in February, sources told B/R, including one structure with Indiana that featured Domantas Sabonis. 

Now, there are three teams most often linked by league personnel as Ayton's potential suitors on the open market: Atlanta, Detroit and Portland. Multiple team executives also pointed to Charlotte, with a clear hole at center, and San Antonio, one of the few teams with significant cap space, as possible landing spots for Ayton.

 Detroit can offer a top 5 pick.....

Edited May 25, 2022 by terrell

[Ropadope]

5 hours ago, Sothron said:

It needed to be a joint decision one way or the other and it wasn't a joint decision. So as far as I know the status quo remains the same.

I’m glad! I’ve been on this forum in some form/username since 2005 and have under 100 posts total lol 

[nathan2331]

12 minutes ago, terrell said:

 Detroit can offer a top 5 pick.....

That's a better value than Capela, but I think the Sun's would rather get Ayton's replacement in a sign and trade. Then again, I suppose Detroit could work out a larger deal with a third team that doesn't include us.

[Diesel]

Just now, nathan2331 said:

That's a better value than Capela, but I think the Sun's would rather get Ayton's replacement in a sign and trade. Then again, I suppose Detroit could work out a larger deal with a third team that doesn't include us.

I think that the Suns want proven players.   CP3 window is damn near shut. 

 

[sturt]

23 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

This isn’t your prototype guy. you been jacked if your account? 

*sigh*... well, first, I lied... I decided I worked pretty damn hard for Saturday, Sunday and Monday, and I was just going to give myself a half-day off. Nah. Might as well make it the full day. (Getting ready to start a new business, and can't be dilly-dallying too much.)

Okay, that disclaimer done...

 

1) Prototype?

My prototype is figuring out what our options seem to be, given the circumstances at-hand. Other than that, I have no "prototype."

 

2) As I said at the top of that first Randle post, I've never really been a fan (... which, btw, should disarm some friends here, given that they seem to be persuaded to the easy conclusion that one only argues for those he loves, and argues against those he doesn't). But consider the options...

 

3) There is a "feeling" that the young core is unavailable. While it's true Esquire Spud and Fair Maiden Jay that that's not to say feelings can't change depending on circumstances, still it establishes to some degree that there is a goal to limit the damage in making off-season transactions to... again, referencing Supes' words... just sending out players on the second unit (and leaving the first unit intact).

 

4) Given that guideline, then, it's plausibly intelligent to look beyond the names getting a lot of chatter, because

(a) of how difficult it likely would be to craft a deal that observes the guideline... but... at least as importantly...

(b) sign-and-trades are by their very nature difficult to shepherd to a signed bottom line b/c you have not one, not two, but three parties who have to be satisfied. And then,

(c), if one holds the opinion that the strongest takeaway from the GM and his boss was, not just that changes are a-comin', but that one way or another that defense is going to be substantially improved... then, that clearly is more congruent with certain players than it is others. Thus, what do I know, but I'm admittedly highly skeptical that LaVine in particular is quite so paramount on the priority list.

 

5. One of those names is, yeah, Julius Randle... one of many, and so, yeah, there are others that perhaps deserve stronger consideration than I've/we've granted just yet.

In that original post, though, I laid out why Randle... when you peel the onion back and think about it... is at least as reasonable a coveted asset as is Ben Simmons. He's more likely more available. He's decent at a lot of the things most players his size aren't so much, though not exceptional... and/but then again, he's decent at something that Simmons is not... shooting... kinda important... and/but more over, you're going to pay less both in terms of money and in terms of what you have to deal away in order to acquire him.

And still more thought... Randle brings some nasty to the court that we don't really have but which playoff teams tend to have somewhere on their roster... that is, the successful ones.

 

So yeah, it's not an idea that I instantly accepted, but then it kept making more sense, and then more, and then more. To me, at least. As always, I enjoy reading opinions to the contrary to test that gauntlet of reason.

[JayBirdHawk]

19 minutes ago, terrell said:

 Detroit can offer a top 5 pick.....

Detroit has capspace to offer Ayton a max deal outright and force the Suns to match which we know they are reluctant to do.

[NekiEcko]

23 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Detroit has capspace to offer Ayton a max deal outright and force the Suns to match which we know they are reluctant to do.

However the question is how competitive the Suns wanted to be in the West.  I know that this will be CP3 last year in Phoenix next year and they got a good team already in place.  Clint will give them rebounding and chance to get back to the finals.

Detroit can give them a top pick but is that going to get them to the playoffs with Ayton and Cunningham?  Plus in any trade, they will have to give up Grant who was a very good player for them. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by NekiEcko

[marco102]

1 hour ago, RedDawg#8 said:

What do we know and feel about this as it relates to Lavine?

https://www.nba.com/amp/bulls/news/zach-lavine-injury-update-1

 

Not very, it was to go in and clean up the knee.  It wasn't a major surgery.

[JayBirdHawk]

8 minutes ago, NekiEcko said:

However the question is how competitive the Suns wanted to be in the West.  I know that this will be CP3 last year in Phoenix next year and they got a good team already in place.  Clint will give them rebounding and chance to get back to the finals.

Detroit can give them a top pick but is that going to get them to the playoffs with Ayton and Cunningham?  Plus in any trade, they will have to give up Grant who was a very good player for them. 

Detroit can't give them their top pick this year anyway since the draft occurs before FAcy,  it will have to be a future pick and will most likely be a lottery protected pick.

 

[marco102]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Detroit can't give them their top pick this year anyway since the draft occurs before FAcy,  it will have to be a future pick and will most likely be a lottery protected pick.

 

Which makes the Hawks offer of a top 10 center plus a non lottery pick even better.

[Spud2nique]

48 minutes ago, sturt said:

I have no "prototype."

True story. I shouldn’t be surprised you want Randle I guess.  

[Spud2nique]

50 minutes ago, sturt said:

While it's true Esquire Spud and Fair Maiden Jay

@JayBirdHawk sounds like a fun podcast to me 

[Spud2nique]

52 minutes ago, sturt said:

As always, I enjoy reading opinions to the contrary to test that gauntlet of reason.

The nasty that you mentioned Randle brings is few and far between the times he keeps jacking shots up to the detriment of his team, he gives up on his team at times and calls out fans. 
 

I’m worried about him moving forward.

Tell you the truth, I’m not loving Lavine either. I know folks tend to say that I go with the flow of what we are doing as an organization but I’d be very careful with Lavine. The injuries, the volume, granted I feel I watched his game this past year and came away impressed that he didn’t have tunnel vision and seems to play more within the offense than he did before.

 

This is a very important offseason for us. I feel like I say that a lot but if we are going to change it up a bit going forward on some main pieces, this could be the year we kind of progress or stay idle.

[sturt]

5 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

True story. I shouldn’t be surprised you want Randle I guess.  

Talk me out of it. I'm not yet a rabid advocate. Look up and down Supes' list for someone else that appears to be the best combination given all of the checkboxes. I'll listen.

But no to Medusa Simmons, imo... not to LaVine, imo... no to Mitchell, imo. Not really that hot for Ayton, either, b/c I just don't see him as a difference maker, and it feels (there's that word again) like people are just cheering change for the sake of change. They're tired of this team already. They need new toys.

[sturt]

6 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

the times he keeps jacking shots up to the detriment of his team, he gives up on his team at times and calls out fans. 

Points well-taken... though I instantly am made to think that he's been on a team where, if it was going to be successful, it had to have him in a major role almost if not every night.

In ATL, that wouldn't be the case.

And heck... I've given up on the Knicks... and I've called out Knicks fans, too. Of course. hehe

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, sturt said:

But no to Medusa Simmons, imo... not to LaVine, imo... no to Mitchell, imo. Not really that hot for Ayton,

I keep trying to love a player and I’m not loving anyone. I think Ayton is the only one on the list that could propel us forward but at what cost. I just know that cp3 had Ayton looking pretty darn good and the most comparable passer to point God is Trae is finding people specially bigs.

I think there are risks with Ayton and every other player on that list, whether injury related or production related or in Simmons case just plain AVAILABLE. How can anyone feel really good about getting Ben right now. 
 

I dunno, I think I have to readjust my thinking and understanding that players today are a bit different that the 80’s 90’s and even early 2000’s. It’s a new era of emotions and mystery as well as swag. 

[Diesel]

Do we really want Ayton though?

Defense is meh.

Offense is really good. 

How much offense will he be called to use?

 

[Spud2nique]

4 minutes ago, sturt said:

though I instantly am made to think that he's been on a team where, if it was going to be successful, it had to have him in a major role almost if not every night.

In ATL, that wouldn't be the case.

What about DD? I say that not being a huge fan of DD but he did land himself on an all nba team a few hours back, all nba 2nd team.

[sturt]

Dewayne Dedmon?

[Spud2nique]

Having mentioned DD I do feel like Lavine and DD are two oranges while Trae is an apple. It wouldn’t be redundant so that’s one thing. Lavine and DD are both natural 2’s. Ya, we’d have a dynamic scoring backcourt that’s for sure.