How would you revamp/rebuild???

[Diesel]

9 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I wouldn’t completely rule it out though.

It would have to be a clear upgrade.  A lot of times we look at guys in other systems and think they that would do well with us.   However, you have to look clearly to see if the system is made for them and then think how would they fit with us. 

We have asked less and less of JC (especially this year).   I don't think that's according to his ability, I think it's according to scheme.   We have become so dependent on the 1/5 PNR, that we don't utilize a lot of things that would feature JC on offense.   I think you have to realize that it may be the same with whoever we bring in.   So if we bring in somebody, it must be a clear upgrade and not somebody that we see killing it in their system and think they would do well for us. 

 

[Spud2nique]

Just now, Diesel said:

It would have to be a clear upgrade.  A lot of times we look at guys in other systems and think they that would do well with us.   However, you have to look clearly to see if the system is made for them and then think how would they fit with us. 

We have asked less and less of JC (especially this year).   I don't think that's according to his ability, I think it's according to scheme.   We have become so dependent on the 1/5 PNR, that we don't utilize a lot of things that would feature JC on offense.   I think you have to realize that it may be the same with whoever we bring in.   So if we bring in somebody, it must be a clear upgrade and not somebody that we see killing it in their system and think they would do well for us. 

 

In the Gobert deal he would be the main piece heading back no?

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

I do agree with you that our SG defense is an issue but we need that player to also be a secondary ball handler and a scorer. Maybe it's the one position, we might not be able to squeeze a lot of defense from just because the offensive needs are high.

or

or

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

or

or

Ball - no, offensive fit issues

I liked Hart last year and the Hawks actually made a run for him but Portland had a better offer. I haven't heard any details that he or Ball is even available. 

Brodgon fit offensively could be a major issue with Trae. As a 6th man, I love Malcolm 

[ShooterSays]

16 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Trae/Delon/Cooper 

Bogi/Bouknight/Agbaji

Hunter/Hayward/Brown

Okongwu/JJ. - See above 

Gobert/McGee/Dieng

I get where you're going with this and I think it's a pretty good projection based on what will probably be available to us. Trae/Bogi on the perimeter scares me defensively, but we did make the ECF last year with them guarding the perimeter. Hunter/OO/Gobert are obviously huge improvements in the frontcourt defensively compared to Huerter/JC/Cap who were holding down for us during that ECF run. Defensively, I think this works and works great.

The fit I do question is OO and Gobert offensively - assuming OO can't develop his jump shot. Which maybe he can, but I'm not going to assume it. Isn't this just going to clog up the lane for Trae? It's fine having one guy who can't shoot, but with OO and Gobert, they both can't do anything outside of the paint. I don't know if that works in today's NBA. 

@NBASupes, how do you see OO and Gobert working offensively together? Trae's a magician, so if anyone can utilize them together it would be him.

[NBASupes]

22 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

I get where you're going with this and I think it's a pretty good projection based on what will probably be available to us. Trae/Bogi on the perimeter scares me defensively, but we did make the ECF last year with them guarding the perimeter. Hunter/OO/Gobert are obviously huge improvements in the frontcourt defensively compared to Huerter/JC/Cap who were holding down for us during that ECF run. Defensively, I think this works and works great.

The fit I do question is OO and Gobert offensively - assuming OO can't develop his jump shot. Which maybe he can, but I'm not going to assume it. Isn't this just going to clog up the lane for Trae? It's fine having one guy who can't shoot, but with OO and Gobert, they both can't do anything outside of the paint. I don't know if that works in today's NBA. 

@NBASupes, how do you see OO and Gobert working offensively together? Trae's a magician, so if anyone can utilize them together it would be him.

To answer that last question. I don't know. What you like is Okongwu can rebound but he has to be more determined on the offensive boards which Travis challenged him in his season review. He has to add range. 3 point shot will be nice but he needs at least a respectable mid range that will force teams not to sag off in coverage. Okongwu is still a good movement player but a far cry from JC who's elite at it. It will be a process. We know he has the shooting touch, he just has to have the confidence. 

Okongwu had to take a leap, its year 3. 

Defensively, it would be amazing. I even think we can Millsap him where he's doing a lot of off ball stuff which JC just wasn't capable of on that end. 

If these trades do anything, it gives us a floor to match our ceiling. That said, we still gotta work and develop. I really like the idea of getting Bouknight from Charlotte for taking on Hayward contract. I think Bouknight has a lot of things we are looking for in a SG in time. 

[Gray Mule]

One player that I hope we obtain.  He had a great G League season and plays forward.  Jalen Johnson is his name.  Anyone ever heard of him?

Fixing our roster.

 

[ShooterSays]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

To answer that last question. I don't know. What you like is Okongwu can rebound but he has to be more determined on the offensive boards which Travis challenged him in his season review. He has to add range. 3 point shot will be nice but he needs at least a respectable mid range that will force teams not to sag off in coverage. Okongwu is still a good movement player but a far cry from JC who's elite at it. It will be a process. We know he has the shooting touch, he just has to have the confidence. 

Okongwu had to take a leap, its year 3. 

Defensively, it would be amazing. I even think we can Millsap him where he's doing a lot of off ball stuff which JC just wasn't capable of on that end. 

If these trades do anything, it gives us a floor to match our ceiling. That said, we still gotta work and develop. I really like the idea of getting Bouknight from Charlotte for taking on Hayward contract. I think Bouknight has a lot of things we are looking for in a SG in time. 

I like it and I think it's a projection that could actually happen, unlike a lot of ideas that have been posted on here, myself included lol.

A LOT just hinges on OO17 figuring out his jump shot. It's a big gamble.

[Diesel]

There are much much better deals than Capping us out and trying to play OO at PF (as a starter).   Can anybody honestly say he's better than JJ as a PF?  I rest that case.

Here's something to chew on:

1.  JC for Brogdon. 

2.   Bogi/Fourner/Kemba to LAL;   Westbrook to NY;  Randle to Altanta. 

3. Atlanta Drafts Prospect 7 footer. 

4.  Atlanta resigns Wright

 

• Clint/OO/Project
• Randle/JJ
• Hunter/C Brown
• Brogdon/Kev
• Trae/Delon

There may still be another move to be made with Gallo or we may buy him out.  But this just makes more sense than going after a big with no guarantee of improvement towards a title. 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

46 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

What you like is Okongwu can rebound but he has to be more determined on the offensive boards which Travis challenged him in his season review.

You have it reversed: Schlenk challenged him to be a better defensive rebounder since his offensive rebounding was already goodm

[JayBirdHawk]

8 minutes ago, Diesel said:

There are much much better deals than Capping us out and trying to play OO at PF (as a starter).   

This^.

Love OO but slotting him as a starter next season adjacent to Gobert and hope it works offensively does not scream 'championship' contender off the bat.

[JayBirdHawk]

50 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Okongwu is still a good movement player but a far cry from JC who's elite at it. It will be a process. We know he has the shooting touch, he just has to have the confidence. 

Do we really though? He has touch around the basket and his freethrow shooting stroke has improved, but I haven't seen enough actual shooting outside the paint to say he has 'shooting touch'.

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Do we really though? He has touch around the basket and his freethrow shooting stroke has improved, but I haven't seen enough actual shooting outside the paint to say he has 'shooting touch'.

FT line.

[JayBirdHawk]

6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

FT line.

I included FT line. I just haven't seen it otherwise.

[Diesel]

46 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Do we really though? He has touch around the basket and his freethrow shooting stroke has improved, but I haven't seen enough actual shooting outside the paint to say he has 'shooting touch'.

These things just don't happen overnight.. Right Smoove?  I think what's missing in the thought is that understanding that there's some timing, some touch, and just a feel for how to shoot.   Usually, if you don't have or some parts of it coming to this level, you don't just get it. 

 

[Diesel]

Just now, Diesel said:

These things just don't happen overnight.. Right Smoove?  I think what's missing in the thought is that understanding that there's some timing, some touch, and just a feel for how to shoot.   Usually, if you don't have or some parts of it coming to this level, you don't just get it. 

 

I asked the question...

Can we say that OO is a better PF than JJ?

I wasn't tongue N Cheek here.   JJ's offense is clearly more PFish than OO.. Sad to say.. so is no-Knox.   I think playing with the Ball boys in HS was somewhat a disservice for OO because they never focused on how to make him a complete Big.   We can't run 1-5 PNR with him because most of the time, he wants to bring the lob pass down so that he can regather.  Nobody else will tell that truth, so let me do it.   He's most surprised when he's able to catch the ball in air and finish.   The problem with that is that that's a Wednesday for JC.  That's why I talk about him steadily taking over for CC.   He may list as the same height as a PF but I don't see enough of the little things in him to say that he can play that position.   I would rather that he modelled himself into the next Bam... And that's a long way because Bam has a very complete offense.

 

 

[marco102]

1 hour ago, ShooterSays said:

I like it and I think it's a projection that could actually happen, unlike a lot of ideas that have been posted on here, myself included lol.

A LOT just hinges on OO17 figuring out his jump shot. It's a big gamble.

There is a lot more projection with OO developing a reliable jumpshot if you ask me. 

I think as long as center is upgraded, hell, even without an upgrade, we should be good to go with JC at PF.  OO is not the answer at PF.  He's always been a center.  That's a big ask for him to go from center to PF in one off season.  JJ projects as a better PF imo. 

If the Hawks run it back, they have to hope for Hunter to take a leap and find another perimeter defender and ball handler.  - The answer to me is SGA, but some say he is untouchable. If I'm Travis, I'd give OKC almost anything they wanted to get him. 

There are only like two PF's that I'd trade JC for.  1. Siakam 2. AD 

Giannis isn't going anywhere.  KD isn't going anywhere. 

[ShooterSays]

5 minutes ago, marco102 said:

There is a lot more projection with OO developing a reliable jumpshot if you ask me. 

I think as long as center is upgraded, hell, even without an upgrade, we should be good to go with JC at PF.  OO is not the answer at PF.  He's always been a center.  That's a big ask for him to go from center to PF in one off season.  JJ projects as a better PF imo. 

If the Hawks run it back, they have to hope for Hunter to take a leap and find another perimeter defender and ball handler.  - The answer to me is SGA, but some say he is untouchable. If I'm Travis, I'd give OKC almost anything they wanted to get him. 

There are only like two PF's that I'd trade JC for.  1. Siakam 2. AD 

Giannis isn't going anywhere.  KD isn't going anywhere. 

Yeah I'm 100% on board with an SGA trade and giving up whatever we need to in order to get him. I think OKC probably considers him untouchable though.

I tend to agree with you on OO/JC. It would be asking a lot of OO to move to the 4 and I don't think it's a move a championship level team should be making. I get why Supes is saying it though defensively...I just don't think it works offensively.

I'm down with AD or Siakam IF we're paring with Gobert. I think that would work great on both ends.

[marco102]

5 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

Yeah I'm 100% on board with an SGA trade and giving up whatever we need to in order to get him. I think OKC probably considers him untouchable though.

I tend to agree with you on OO/JC. It would be asking a lot of OO to move to the 4 and I don't think it's a move a championship level team should be making. I get why Supes is saying it though defensively...I just don't think it works offensively.

I'm down with AD or Siakam IF we're paring with Gobert. I think that would work great on both ends.

It doesn't even work defensively.  The Hawks best defensive lineups involve a healthy JC. 

[Diesel]

13 minutes ago, marco102 said:

There are only like two PF's that I'd trade JC for.  1. Siakam 2. AD 

Giannis isn't going anywhere.  KD isn't going anywhere. 

AD got to want to play if he's going to be paired with Trae. 

AD couldn't get motivated to play with Lebron.   I think we've seen the best AD that we will see.  Motivation is the biggest difference we see in Davis and Collins.   There of course are other differences but Motivation IMO is the biggest because Collins has proven that he will come onto the court with a busted hand and no jump... and play hard.   AD would have never (IMO) come on the court half as gimpy as Collins.  I think now that he has his chip.. he's not as motivated to put in the work.

This is not new.  He had a late HS growth Spurt.  7 inches.  And still he never really worked on his body.  He just went with it. So the skills he had as a 6'3" player, he still had at 6'11". He never did improve his physique (came in the league skinny).   Put on the lbs... never really had a time where he built muscles.. and stays injured a lot.   It's related (IMO). 

That's a whole lot different from a player like JC who has improved something about his game every year.