How would you revamp/rebuild???

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

AD got to want to play if he's going to be paired with Trae. 

AD couldn't get motivated to play with Lebron.   I think we've seen the best AD that we will see.  Motivation is the biggest difference we see in Davis and Collins.   There of course are other differences but Motivation IMO is the biggest because Collins has proven that he will come onto the court with a busted hand and no jump... and play hard.   AD would have never (IMO) come on the court half as gimpy as Collins.  I think now that he has his chip.. he's not as motivated to put in the work.

This is not new.  He had a late HS growth Spurt.  7 inches.  And still he never really worked on his body.  He just went with it. So the skills he had as a 6'3" player, he still had at 6'11". He never did improve his physique (came in the league skinny).   Put on the lbs... never really had a time where he built muscles.. and stays injured a lot.   It's related (IMO). 

That's a whole lot different from a player like JC who has improved something about his game every year. 

 

 

Amen Diesel!!!

[ShooterSays]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

It doesn't even work defensively.  The Hawks best defensive lineups involve a healthy JC. 

How doesn’t it work defensively? I’m not going to go look for advanced metrics and stats, but my eye test tells me OO is a better defender than JC.

He had great games against Giannis, Embiid, and Bam as the primary defender this season. He also has a better physical profile for guarding 4’s and 5’s. Pair him with Gobert and I think we’re on to something on defense.

It’s just not a great fit on offense until OO develops his shot to help with spacing.

[Diesel]

8 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

How doesn’t it work defensively? I’m not going to go look for advanced metrics and stats, but my eye test tells me OO is a better defender than JC.

He had great games against Giannis, Embiid, and Bam as the primary defender this season. He also has a better physical profile for guarding 4’s and 5’s. Pair him with Gobert and I think we’re on to something on defense.

It’s just not a great fit on offense until OO develops his shot to help with spacing.

I think the main problem right now with OO compared to JC defensively is not physical at all.  Physically, OO is stronger, moves quicker, better reflexer, and has shot blocker's coordination.  But where JC excels is that he can play good defense without fouling.  OO, while he’s a tremendous secondary and tertiary leaper, he too often leaves his feet on pump fakes. It’s hard to fault him for being shot block happy, but the lack of discipline is not to his benefit.   This is a nuance that we hope that OO can fix.  Hopefully, over the summer working with a big man specialist.  Because right now, OO is reaction driven and he doesn't always play smart defense.  JC's defense is a little smarter.   He has the experience to know what a offensive player is trying to do. So he relies on beating the opponent to the spot.  

These are not Dennis Rodman or Draymond Green Highlights, but it shows how he anticipates.   Lots of Offensive Charge fouls that i didn't remember. 

 

[Blunt91]

On 5/8/2022 at 4:50 PM, NBASupes said:

More like no way Atlanta does that. Capela is way better than Turner

Defensively & rebounding he is, but not offensively. 

[Spud2nique]

36 minutes ago, Blunt91 said:

Defensively & rebounding he is, but not offensively. 

Ya he is cuz Turner jacks up unwarranted threes and it’s not in the flow of the O. At least Cap either gets fed by Trae for a one footer.. oh wait.. he misses those bunnies too. I dunno

[Blunt91]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

Ya he is cuz Turner jacks up unwarranted threes and it’s not in the flow of the O. At least Cap either gets fed by Trae for a one footer.. oh wait.. he misses those bunnies too. I dunno

Love what Cap brings but he can't create his own offense,  I  need my Center not so dependent on our PG to get him in position to score, which the good teams are better at defending the lobs now.

[Diesel]

16 minutes ago, Blunt91 said:

Love what Cap brings but he can't create his own offense,  I  need my Center not so dependent on our PG to get him in position to score, which the good teams are better at defending the lobs now.

Well, with us, the lobs are a prelude to other things we do offensively.   It allows Trae to get more man coverage (which he can beat).    Backdoor cuts and corner threes open up. 

 

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, Blunt91 said:

Love what Cap brings but he can't create his own offense,  I  need my Center not so dependent on our PG to get him in position to score, which the good teams are better at defending the lobs now.

Sure but have you seen Turner create offense for himself?

[Diesel]

8 hours ago, Blunt91 said:

Love what Cap brings but he can't create his own offense,  I  need my Center not so dependent on our PG to get him in position to score, which the good teams are better at defending the lobs now.

You know this sounds good, until you really think about it...

Are you talking about Hakeem?

I recall Shaq playing and he needed players to get him the ball "in his spot". 

I recall The Admiral playing and he needed players to get him the ball  "in his spot". 

Even Bobby Portis.   Bobby Portis was the C for the world champion Milwaukee Bucks in Last years finals.   I don't think he ever dribbled. He just got to his spots and needed somebody to pass him the ball. 

 

We run a Pick and Roll offense.  It's purpose is not just to get Clint an opportunity to score, it also sets up Trae.  To call that dependent on the PG is the same as saying Malone couldn't score without Stockton.   Is it true... no... But if it works why question it?

[Blunt91]

9 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Sure but have you seen Turner create offense for himself?

The point was that he can shoot at a decent clip whether it is in the flow of the game or not he still can make a basket outside 5 feet.   I also was just naming a center besides Ayton & Gobert that wouldn't break our bank.  That's all I have to say on the matter.

[macdaddy]

Well I had a lot of catching up to on this but with a little space between the season and now I still look at it as we need two things:

1- wing upgrades

2- vets on the bench

 

In more detail: 

- Capela/OO could be one of the best center rotation in the league next year.   Why change it

- JC plays winning basketball.   He has deficiencies but he's a glue guy

- Huerter needs to come off the bench.   He doesn't provide enough on either end to justify starting but he is a solid player off the bench

- Hunter I'm willing to see what happens with him provided we upgrade the 2 guard but if it takes him to get a second star so be it.  

- Gallo I'm not sure.   Upgrade would be nice but it's hard to find a better PF off the bench even at his age. 

 

[JeffS17]

lol first click i swear, made me chuckle.

[shakes]

On 5/9/2022 at 7:19 PM, Blunt91 said:

Defensively & rebounding he is, but not offensively. 

well considering defense and rebounding are two things we need more of, not less......

[marco102]

4 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

lol first click i swear, made me chuckle.

The first one i landed on wa Gobert, but I kept trying until I got SGA...lol

[sillent]

On 5/8/2022 at 11:23 AM, marco102 said:

Here are my ideal off season moves. 

 

Opening night roster - Knox is not on the roster.  - Maybe about $18 million into the tax if Trae gets the super max. 

Do you think this roster would be a championship contender? If not, what do you think the biggest issue would be with it?  The trades are unrealistic?  The OKC picks are unprotected which is crazy in this day and age, but I feel it's worth the risk to try to get a championship. May throw one more in there, but the machine doesn't go out to 2029.

Thoughts @JayBirdHawk, @thecampster, @Spud2nique, @NBASupes, @Sothron, @AHF, @sillent ,  @JeffS17, @kg01 (you will hate Mitchell Robinson, but I figured we'd need a defensive back up center), @Diesel?

Edit: @lethalweapon3, @ShooterSays,  @Final_quest, @TheNorthCydeRises

 

I don't know how it would work financially $$ but you got a few stars in SGA, Ayton, defense height/length with Mitchell Robinson and some other defenders while keeping some of our core which should help with chemistry.

[marco102]

42 minutes ago, sillent said:

I don't know how it would work financially $$ but you got a few stars in SGA, Ayton, defense height/length with Mitchell Robinson and some other defenders while keeping some of our core which should help with chemistry.

It's for sure a pipe dream, but I'd be at every home game next year if Travis pulled that one off.   

To me, it'll be a real contender. 

[JTB]

I’m trying to warm myself up to this possible starting lineup even though I know there’s flaws. 
 

PG- Trae (Star)

SG-Mitchell (Star)

SF-Hunter (3&D)

PF-OO (Defense , great energy, offensive development)

C-Capela (Defense, Rebounding, Rim runner)

 

Obviously the glaring hole in this lineup is the fact that OO and Capela cannot space the floor but the strength of this lineup is that you have a star backcourt covered by a strong defensive front court at least in my opinion!…Do you take the risk to see if OO can develop a mid range shot by start of 2022-2023 season?…hell yeah you do!….That’s a heck of front court defense with decent size, decent length, great wingspans, athleticism, and players who take real pride in getting defensive stops. The front court could actually switch effectively on defense and I believe communication who be very good too. I also believe these 3 can and will play physical style of basketball.

The only issue and hope would be OO development on a decent jumper by start of the season but we can’t let issue stop us from trying to improve in other areas.

This lineup probably takes a step back offensively for sure. We won’t finish second in offense but you gamble that Trae and Mitchell pairing is so good offensively that we are still top 12 offense with these two leading the way.

i think it’s extremely hard to try to cover all of the hawks problems in one off season …there’s just too many! If you can get Mitchell he can help take a huge burden off of Trae Offensively. That’s a scoring backcourt that I believe could be better than Dame/CJ. Then you put this type of defensive front court next to them and I think we addressed two big needs in the off season!

1. get a legit second star who can score at will and has ok playmaking abilities  along with the ability to take over games AND perhaps he will find his defensive groove again (CHECKMATE)

2. Better team defense with physicality, athleticism, long arms, great energy when healthy, and players who take pride defensively. (CHECKMATE)

 

 

[Diesel]

• PG- Trae (Star)
• SG-Mitchell (Star)
• SF-Hunter (3&D)
• PF-OO (Defense , great energy, offensive development)
• C-Capela (Defense, Rebounding, Rim runner)

 

OO can't dribble.  OO can't shoot from distance.  OO doesn't have a strong post up game.  What PF in league history do you compare OO to (Just for Grins)?

So let's say for Grins that JC and Picks can get us Mitchell?  Just for Grins...

Actually... Let's say:

JC/Bogi/Picks to Utah for Mitchell, Royce, and Gay.  

This could easily be the pick because Gay and Royce are contract wastes.  Gay is 35 and has 3 more years on the contract.   In his last 10 games, Oneal has given 4.3 points and 3.3 rebs.  So let's assume that this is the cost for Mitch.

Even though we have a guy in Royce who could play PF... it would be much easier to play JJ as the starter than Oneal.   However, we still have a Gallo on the squad.  For me.. Gallo is not going anywhere. But if FO believes that 20 Million is too much for Gallo... we can use his 20 Million and Buyout to go searching for a PF.   But let's go with the Diesel trade...

This is the new lineup after some signings:

• Trae/Delon/Shariff*
• Mitchell/2022 1st round pick***
• Hunter/Gay/CBrown
• JJ/Gallo/Oneal
• CC/OO/FA 7 Footer**

*  Shariffe may be used in the Trade for Mitchell. 

**  For grins, Hawks select MarJon Beauchamp.

***  For Grins, Hawks add Robin Lopez.  (Could easily be McGee, Dedmon, Drummond, Whitesides, or Mitchell Robinson). 

I would rather go to war with this....lineup than to force OO to try to be something that he's not.  Even if he develops a set shot, he's still not PF skilled enough. 

 

 

 

[JeffS17]

10 hours ago, JTB said:

PG- Trae (Star)

SG-Mitchell (Star)

SF-Hunter (3&D)

PF-OO (Defense , great energy, offensive development)

C-Capela (Defense, Rebounding, Rim runner)

I feel pretty strongly that bringing in Mitchell will put a ceiling on this team and that's making the ECF (which we've already done).  Having all of our money tied up in volume scoring guards is not a recipe for success.  Much rather find all-star level bigs or wait until a big wing is available.  The spacing in that lineup is atrocious and Trae/Donovan would just be iso'ing every possession and jacking up threes all game.  

 

[Diesel]

25 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I feel pretty strongly that bringing in Mitchell will put a ceiling on this team and that's making the ECF (which we've already done).  Having all of our money tied up in volume scoring guards is not a recipe for success.  Much rather find all-star level bigs or wait until a big wing is available.  The spacing in that lineup is atrocious and Trae/Donovan would just be iso'ing every possession and jacking up threes all game.  

 

I think the game has changed and you missed it.   GS is the formulation that says that guards can lead to victory.  Hell, the Bulls didn't have a great scoring Bigs either. 

With that in mind, I think we can win it all with a player like Trae and with a player like Mitchell next to him.. but the pieces that we have has to have a clear fit and purpose. 

The other thing about Mitchell - Trae that I think that you underestimate is how the offense runs.   It won't be iso... unless we have the wrong coach.  Dribble hand offs, corner threes, PNR, Lobs.. will be our offensive motif. 

Currently, there's no big that we can get, Ayton included, that can get us passed the 2nd round of the playoffs without fixing our second scorer problem.  Just look at Phoenix struggle against the Mavs.   The Mavs are pushing the suns and the Suns have CP3, Book, and Ayton...  Why?  Because the offensive Big isn't that important.   What's more important is offensive efficiency and rebounds. 

All in all, a careful build is what we ought to be looking for with the acquisition of Mitchell.