Hawks in talks with Snyder

[KB21]

14 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I think if it happens - his first game coaching will be next Friday. We play tonight, Sunday and next Tuesday....then we don't plays until Friday, that will give him 2 days.

It's possible that, if he gets the title of President of Basketball Operations, that he finishes this season in that role and evaluates the team/staff.  With that said, the Hawks want to make a playoff push, and their best chance is to get Quin on the bench ASAP.  I doubt he keeps any of the current staff of coaches.  We haven't had a really good staff since Bud left.

[MarylandHawk]

16 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I think if it happens - his first game coaching will be next Friday. We play tonight, Sunday and next Tuesday....then we don't plays until Friday, that will give him 2 days.

I don’t know how I feel about bringing snyder in this quick. I hope they are not foregoing an opportunity to interview all of the current assistant coaches in the NBA to rush this hire. Also, from a resume standpoint, the two top coaches on this current staff have more championship experience.  Lastly, how could Snyder assemble his staff?  Everybody is currently working but him. I think is a good option, but why rush it?

[REHawksFan]

29 minutes ago, KB21 said:

The funny thing is, Nate was better when he stayed with what lloyd Pierce was doing after he took over.  It all went to shit after he went back to his traditional style of coaching.

Yeah. This was always a HUGE indictment on him as a coach. He had the respect of the team and was able to get them to play together when he was running LPs offense.  And it was working.  Then he came out before his first full season with a statement that we was going to tweak some things to fit his style.  That was our first sign that it was going to fail. He took what was working, said nah, I'm going to do my own thing, and then after a full season of it NOT working, he doubled down on it.  I mean, how dense does a dude have to be?  Or stubborn.  

Good riddance.  

[ABH]

48 minutes ago, Afro said:

 

100%. The only time I met any Hawks fans was when I lived IN Atlanta. The second you go outside the perimeter....they all disappear lol. 

 

I wear a black Hawks polo a decent amount of the time. Every time I meet a new group of people for something someone always asks, "Wait, you're like, an actual Hawks fan?". 

True to Atlanta 

[sturt]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

The funny thing is, Nate was better when he stayed with what lloyd Pierce was doing after he took over.  It all went to shit after he went back to his traditional style of coaching.

Nope.

(Broken record alert... be warned.)

It went to shit only for those games last season that he had no other choice but to start  G-League level players... those six weeks only (12/1/21 - 1/15/22).

6-16 for those.

Granted, the expectations were higher even aside from those six weeks. But the actual record was the actual record... and the winning % of the rest of the season (.621, 37-23) was the equal of the EC conference champs and the previous season's NBA champs).

Equal.

 

And save me the "well other teams had essentially the same health problems we did." Argue with yourself better. Just because everyone is theoretically exposed to the same drug (independent variable) doesn't mean that each body is going to have the same outcome (dependent variable). You know this. You just don't want to acknowledge it. You've watched how many pharmaceutical commercials in your lifetime, but you don't know this??? C'mon. Our team was severely affected, others less so. That's just what the evidence shows. When we emerged from that "great regression" of the season, the outcomes were what they were. (It's not my fault.)

 

This season just never came together in the first half as it was thought it could. It's not really been the starting five, either. It's been the bench. That's been the box of chocolates... we don't know what we're going to get from game to game.

Now, look, I don't think Nate has a high ceiling as a coach. And I'm on record that I despised his tight rotations that precluded the progress/development of 3 young players especially... JJ most especially.

But if his players perform for him, he has a high enough ceiling... we saw that two seasons ago, and again, I'm just not going to let people get away with disparaging last season's Real Hawks numbers... last season was solid when you account for the obstacles.

The players, to their credit, have acknowledged this week that their performances haven't been good enough, and while "accountability" is a buzz word ordinarily, I've heard it so much, I'm left to conclude there truly must be some significant issues--it's not just the right thing to say.

Putting that together with JC's assertion that Nate would probably do better with a more veteran group? That's another way of saying Nate would do better with a more mature group. Sounds to me like JC was suggesting he believes Nate's messaging and routines and philosophies would resonate and be sustained with a more seasoned group, but this group isn't that group at this stage of development.

Then, the point is further brought home by the comments we've heard about the want for a head coach who can successfully invoke a culture... necessary inference being that the culture as-is sucks.

I'm reminded of teachers I had in HS and college that you could tell were really solid if not outstanding, but you look around at the people surrounding you sometimes in a classroom and it's clear that these students just aren't at a maturity level to appreciate what they have.

 

So, nah. Nate's got his limitations. Absolutely. But at least we know that some of the players recognized this isn't nearly so much on him as it is on them.

 

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Yeah. This was always a HUGE indictment on him as a coach. He had the respect of the team and was able to get them to play together when he was running LPs offense.  And it was working.  Then he came out before his first full season with a statement that we was going to tweak some things to fit his style.  That was our first sign that it was going to fail. He took what was working, said nah, I'm going to do my own thing, and then after a full season of it NOT working, he doubled down on it.  I mean, how dense does a dude have to be?  Or stubborn.  

Good riddance.  

Yeah.  I understood why they went ahead and gave the job to Nate.  The optics of replacing him after coaching the team to the ECF would have been very bad, and it would probably have looked bad to other coaches.  However, I was always hesitant about giving him the job.  I was hoping for Kenny Atkinson as Lloyd's replacement, and Kenny would be in my top three, if not number two, in this coaching search.

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, sturt said:

Nope.

(Broken record alert... be warned.)

It went to shit only for those games last season that he had no other choice but to start  G-League level players... those six weeks only (12/1/21 - 1/15/22).

6-16 for those.

Granted, the expectations were higher even aside from those six weeks. But the actual record was the actual record... and the winning % of the rest of the season (.621, 37-23) was the equal of the EC conference champs and the previous season's NBA champs).

Equal.

This season just never came together in the first half as it was thought it could. It's not really been the starting five, either. It's been the bench. That's been the box of chocolates... we don't know what we're going to get from game to game.

Now, look, I don't think Nate has a high ceiling as a coach. And I'm on record that I despised his tight rotations that precluded the progress/development of 3 young players especially... JJ most especially.

But if his players perform for him, he has a high enough ceiling... we saw that two seasons ago, and again, I'm just not going to let people get away with disparaging last season's Real Hawks numbers... last season was solid when you account for the obstacles.

The players, to their credit, have acknowledged this week that their performances haven't been good enough, and while "accountability" is a buzz word ordinarily, I've heard it so much, I'm left to conclude there truly must be some significant issues--it's not just the right thing to say. Putting that together with JC's assertion that Nate would probably do better with a more veteran group? That's another way of saying Nate would do better with a more mature group. Sounds to me like JC was suggesting he believes Nate's messaging and routines and philosophies would resonate and be sustained with a more seasoned group, but this group isn't that group at this stage of development.

Then, the point is further brought home by the comments we've heard about the want for a head coach who can successfully invoke a culture... necessary inference being that the culture as-is sucks.

I'm reminded of teachers I had in HS and college that you could tell were really solid if not outstanding, but you look around at the people surrounding you sometimes in a classroom and it's clear that these students just aren't at a maturity level to appreciate what they have.

 

So, nah. Nate's got his limitations. Absolutely. But at least we know that some of the players recognized this isn't nearly so much on him as it is on them.

 

The style of basketball Nate plays was never going to maximize a team that has young, skilled players.  

[sturt]

Just now, KB21 said:

The style of basketball Nate plays was never going to maximize a team that has young, skilled players.  

I can agree with that without having to back off an inch from what I'd said above.

 

[kg01]

11 minutes ago, MarylandHawk said:

I don’t know how I feel about bringing snyder in this quick. I hope they are not foregoing an opportunity to interview all of the current assistant coaches in the NBA to rush this hire. Also, from a resume standpoint, the two top coaches on this current staff have more championship experience.  Lastly, how could Snyder assemble his staff?  Everybody is currently working but him. I think is a good option, but why rush it?

Aye, I said this yesterday and @REHawksFan got his thugs together and I got whupped pretty bad behind the gym after school.

New coach ain't gonna retain any staff and won't be running our current plays at all.  He won't have time to implement his 'stuff', so the idea that he'd helicopter in for a playoff push is wishful thinking at best.

So .... why not wait? 

[djjob23]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

Man, somebody cliff notes this thang.  I don't wanna give clicks.  Whats wrong with me? 

In summary, Chandler said Pierce firing wasn't Trae's fault (he was the worst coach he's ever played for), but it's Trae's fault for Nate getting fired and he knows better than everyone else because he played here. The fact is, Chandler wasn't here when Nate was coaching with the Hawks and can only go off Nate's reputation (as a coach with more wins than losses). However, for him to say it's Trae's fault (like the other talking heads) is absurd because it's only speculation unless you're in that locker room.

It's easy to jump on the bandwagon and say Trae is a coach killer, and it's fair to say that he could use some maturing (who couldn't at 24 years old), but the fact of the matter is... Trae is a star and wants to win. The year we went to the ECF wasn't because of Nate, but because of Lloyd's system (fast paced with lots of efficient 3's and shots at rim) and Nate's coaching (team motivation/trust). This was a winning mix and it produced results. When Nate fazed out Lloyd's system, we started to see why he didn't work in Indiana (old school framework with dated tactics). 

Based on what I've seen with Trae's growth on defense this season, I think Trae is ready to do whatever it takes to win. If Snyder comes in and is able to coach like he did in Utah (passionate, tireless work ethic, attention to detail, open communication, teamwork) and the players buy into his coaching, we're gonna be in for quite a treat!

[KB21]

3 minutes ago, djjob23 said:

In summary, Chandler said Pierce firing wasn't Trae's fault (he was the worst coach he's ever played for), but it's Trae's fault for Nate getting fired and he knows better than everyone else because he played here. The fact is, Chandler wasn't here when Nate was coaching with the Hawks and can only go off Nate's reputation (as a coach with more wins than losses). However, for him to say it's Trae's fault (like the other talking heads) is absurd because it's only speculation unless you're in that locker room.

It's easy to jump on the bandwagon and say Trae is a coach killer, and it's fair to say that he could use some maturing (who couldn't at 24 years old), but the fact of the matter is... Trae is a star and wants to win. The year we went to the ECF wasn't because of Nate, but because of Lloyd's system (fast paced with lots of efficient 3's and shots at rim) and Nate's coaching (team motivation/trust). This was a winning mix and it produced results. When Nate fazed out Lloyd's system, we started to see why he didn't work in Indiana (old school framework with dated tactics). 

Based on what I've seen with Trae's growth on defense this season, I think Trae is ready to do whatever it takes to win. If Snyder comes in and is able to coach like he did in Utah (passionate, tireless work ethic, attention to detail, open communication, teamwork) and the players buy into his coaching, we're gonna be in for quite a treat!

Agree.  When Quin can get everything in the way he wants it as far as his style of coaching and his staff, I think we could be looking at potentially a double digit win improvement over Nate.  

Who wants to take that bet?  I say that in the 2023-2024 season, the Hawks will win at least 10 more games than they will this season.  

Edited February 24, 2023 by KB21

[kg01]

1 minute ago, djjob23 said:

In summary, Chandler said Pierce firing wasn't Trae's fault (he was the worst coach he's ever played for), but it's Trae's fault for Nate getting fired and he knows better than everyone else because he played here. The fact is, Chandler wasn't here when Nate was coaching with the Hawks and can only go off Nate's reputation (as a coach with more wins than losses). However, for him to say it's Trae's fault (like the other talking heads) is absurd because it's only speculation unless you're in that locker room.

It's easy to jump on the bandwagon and say Trae is a coach killer, and it's fair to say that he could use some maturing (who couldn't at 24 years old), but the fact of the matter is... Trae is a star and wants to win. The year we went to the ECF wasn't because of Nate, but because of Lloyd's system (fast paced with lots of efficient 3's and shots at rim) and Nate's coaching (team motivation/trust). This was a winning mix and it produced results. When Nate fazed out Lloyd's system, we started to see why he didn't work in Indiana (old school framework with dated tactics). 

Based on what I've seen with Trae's growth on defense this season, I think Trae is ready to do whatever it takes to win. If Snyder comes in and is able to coach like he did in Utah (passionate, tireless work ethic, attention to detail, open communication, teamwork) and the players buy into his coaching, we're gonna be in for quite a treat!

This guy gets it.

Parsons and all these eggsperts see which way the winds blowing and adjust their aNaLYsiS to fit.  His is even more sinister because he suggesting he's seen things while he was (actually wasn't due to injury) here and folks aren't doing basic fact checking to see he doesn't have as much insight as he's claiming.  But hey, gotta make a livin' I guess.

[sturt]

4 minutes ago, djjob23 said:

When Nate fazed out Lloyd's system, we started to see why he didn't work in Indiana (old school framework with dated tactics). 

False.

Popular perspective.

But false.

(See above.)

 

[kg01]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

Agree.  When Quin can get everything in the way he wants it as far as his style of coaching and his staff, I think we could be looking at potentially a double digit win improvement over Nate.  

Who wants to take that bet?  I say that in the 2023-2024 season, the Hawks will win at least 10 more games than they will this season.  

Shiiiiiii, that can happen by simply not continuously, arms-foldedly, watching double-digit 4th quarter leads fade.

I can see that happening with no personnel improvements. 

[terrell]

 

10 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Interesting take on Pierce...

 

 

Trae as a 2nd or 3rd option? In Atlanta?

Would he even accept that type of role?

I cant see that happening.

I Cant see us having 2 players better than Trae either... Not on this roster anyway..

Hawks would have to make major moves for that to happen..

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by terrell

[swanlee]

24 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Yeah.  I understood why they went ahead and gave the job to Nate.  The optics of replacing him after coaching the team to the ECF would have been very bad, and it would probably have looked bad to other coaches.  However, I was always hesitant about giving him the job.  I was hoping for Kenny Atkinson as Lloyd's replacement, and Kenny would be in my top three, if not number two, in this coaching search.

There was no way we let Nate go after taking us to the ECF for only the second time since moving to the ATL. Hiring Snyder now eliminates the danger of that by getting a coach we directly picked to be our long term coach instead of risking doing well again in the last half of the season to be forced to go with an interim coach long term that was never intended to happen.

The Front office is acting pretty smart trying to avoid mistakes from the past that caused us to be in this position.

Edited February 24, 2023 by swanlee

[JayBirdHawk]

13 minutes ago, djjob23 said:

In summary, Chandler said Pierce firing wasn't Trae's fault (he was the worst coach he's ever played for).....

Great breakdown....but don't do @kg01 homework.

[terrell]

9 hours ago, Sothron said:

Parsons really didn't hold anything back. Good. I'm tired of LP getting this bizarre treatment like he was some genius coach when he was a disaster.

Yeah if he was so good, why hasnt he got another HC job?

And why didnt Pop hire since he was the one who supposedly loved him so much? smh

[JayBirdHawk]

17 minutes ago, djjob23 said:

When Nate fazed out Lloyd's system, we started to see why he didn't work in Indiana (old school framework with dated tactics). 

Agreed, in each of the last 2 seasons, within the first 3 weeks of the season - I hated the offense with all the midrange and attacking mismatches.

[GameTime]

Nate with LP's system is a really really good coach. The fact that Nate is so set in his "system" that he is willing to lose instead of adapt to the modern NBA shows how stubborn he really is.