Trae Young voted most overrated player in the NBA by his peers

[AtLaS]

16 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

I would say that he regressed this year.  Last year he was remarkably efficient.  This was his least efficient year since rookie season.  Why I was stunned he got any criticism last year, he shot 38/51/90.  There's not much improvement on those numbers.  

100%.  After the 2021 playoffs, in the 2022 regular season he took his game to another level we hadn't seen before.  The Miami series broke him mentally.  

It's pretty clear that Trae lives and dies by his confidence.  Check his summer league and the first 2 months of his rookie year, the criticism was in his head until he overcame it.  Miami series happened and it took him down a peg and he's still trying to get through it.  

The reason he's not a winning player right now is confidence.  If we have 2021/22 Trae confidence he is a legitimate winning player that is extremely hard to stop.  Because of his size, so much of his game is based on quick/fast decisions, so if his confidence is shaken AT ALL he's going to struggle.  

[Final_quest]

7 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

100%.  After the 2021 playoffs, in the 2022 regular season he took his game to another level we hadn't seen before.  The Miami series broke him mentally.  

It's pretty clear that Trae lives and dies by his confidence.  Check his summer league and the first 2 months of his rookie year, the criticism was in his head until he overcame it.  Miami series happened and it took him down a peg and he's still trying to get through it.  

The reason he's not a winning player right now is confidence.  If we have 2021/22 Trae confidence he is a legitimate winning player that is extremely hard to stop.  Because of his size, so much of his game is based on quick/fast decisions, so if his confidence is shaken AT ALL he's going to struggle.  

This is what he has to face nonstop.  The entire world cheering for him to fail.  Our own fans were not happy with leading the league in points and assists while shooting 38/51/90.  Now he gets questioned for losing to juggernauts as a low seed.
 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Final_quest

[NBASupes]

12 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

100%.  After the 2021 playoffs, in the 2022 regular season he took his game to another level we hadn't seen before.  The Miami series broke him mentally.  

It's pretty clear that Trae lives and dies by his confidence.  Check his summer league and the first 2 months of his rookie year, the criticism was in his head until he overcame it.  Miami series happened and it took him down a peg and he's still trying to get through it.  

The reason he's not a winning player right now is confidence.  If we have 2021/22 Trae confidence he is a legitimate winning player that is extremely hard to stop.  Because of his size, so much of his game is based on quick/fast decisions, so if his confidence is shaken AT ALL he's going to struggle.  

His confidence is unshakable. It's spacing that's the issue for his offense. 

[Diesel]

I see it differently.  I don't see it as a confidence issue.   I think there are some areas of confidence that causes him to overcompensate.. but that's play by play and not because of headlines. 

The real culprit is that we have surrounded him with Players who can't shoot. 

During our run...

Bogi, Gallo, Kev, and even JC was shooting from outside with decent numbers...

These are the playoff numbers. 

Now let's consider this years numbers..

It's a big change.   Lou was on his last leg, but even Lou could be counted on to hit a shot.   Hunter and Young are taking 6.5 threes per game and we're seeing 23% shooting from three from both of them.  Murray nailed 7 threes last night and he's only shooting 37% from outside.   Collins is shooting 12.5% from three and he's putting up 4 a game.   And Bey has had a bad series thus far.

We don't have reliable shooters and you know what Boston is doing?  

• Sit back and dare us to shoot.
• Run out on the rebound.
• crowd the paint.

And get credit for playing good defense. 

The lapses in scoring is about us still trying to put up 3 pters.  Like I said last game.. Only Bogi should have a green light when it comes to shooting threes. 

Secondly.. JC is the biggest player on the court.  Why isn't he in the low post trying to score?  He has taken 3.5 2 pters a game so far.   That's ridiculous when you have DJ shooting 15 and Trae 13.5.  If Coach is about spacing, call for some clearouts.  Get JC the ball at the elbow and let him eat. 

 

 

 

 

[BangHolman]

For all of Trae's faults this season and series, you can't expect him or any PG or playmaker to play to the level they're capable of when they're surrounded by non-shooters. No one respects Collins, Hunter, or Johnson in this series. They're basically getting the Caitlin Clark "I'm not guarding you, shoot it" wave off this series and they're clogging the paint.

[AtLaS]

43 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

His confidence is unshakable. It's spacing that's the issue for his offense. 

Noone has unshakeable confidence.  Maybe Kobe did. 

It's subtle.  But I can see it with his play, once he has a few bad plays in a row he is hesitant for the entire rest of the game.  Him throwing the ball to the referee out of bounds for his 3rd turnover in like 2 minutes, missing free throws, floaters, 3pt shot being off, not attacking like he normally does, his clutch play.  It's just how he is making decisions and being a step slow.  That is confidence.  Of course we could use better spacing, but that's only a very small piece of this.

I don't mean that he isn't confident.  It's that he's gone from 100% to maybe 75% confidence.  It's taken him down a peg, and enough to effect his game.  B/C of his size Trae needs to be at 100%.  It's like an RB in football, if you lose 1/2 a step it's the difference between getting tackled for a loss and hitting the hole for a 60 yard TD.  Trae isn't Shaq or LeBron where he can just overpower others and get his usual performance.  His game is based on accurate and very fast decision making.

Watch game 4 and 5 against Miami last year, that's a guy who didn't want the ball.  I have never seen that from Trae.  I don't give a damn who is on the floor with him, he was shook.  Trae played with some garbage players in his first few years and this never happened.

In my completely irrelevant basketball career, I've been there after tough games/matchups and then play like shit for the next month, I know that feeling doing stupid crap that i know not to do but I'm clouded.

This is not something that only Trae has gone through.   Lebron vs 2011 Mavs, Harden has laid major eggs in the playoffs, CP3 has done it, Lillard, Kyrie, Melo has.  It happens.  

He can get through it he just needs a dominant PLAYOFF game to get the F out of his own head.  A big game in the regular season isn't going to fix this.  Because once the playoffs begin all that noise of his playoff struggles picks up again.  He needs a big game on the big stage.

Edited April 19, 2023 by AtLaS

[Spud2nique]

How can you be overrated when you didn’t make the all star team when you were #2 in assists in the league? 
 

How can you be overrated when you won’t make an all nba team THIS year?

How many NON overrated dudes LED their team to the conference finals just 2 years ago?

This stems from jealousy and thirst from other players.

ps Many of the ones who voted were the one that Trae cooks on a nightly basis in the court. THE HATE IS REAL.

 

Having said that, I altered the photo a bit.

We are looking at a future MVP folks.

Another day another opportunity -Trae Young  

[Diesel]

28 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

How can you be overrated when you didn’t make the all star team when you were #2 in assists in the league? 
 

How can you be overrated when you won’t make an all nba team THIS year?

How many NON overrated dudes LED their team to the conference finals just 2 years ago?

This stems from jealousy and thirst from other players.

ps Many of the ones who voted were the one that Trae cooks on a nightly basis in the court. THE HATE IS REAL.

 

Having said that, I altered the photo a bit.

We are looking at a future MVP folks.

Another day another opportunity -Trae Young  

 

Well, I happened to see who vote Trae move overrated...  I know each and every player...

Spoiler

 

 

[bird_dirt]

I’m still LOLing after reading “elite” role player. 

[Watchman]

On 4/18/2023 at 11:05 AM, Diesel said:

What is this called... Oh Yeah..> Deflecting. 

F--k all the BS Stats..  Let's get to the meat of this shall we...

Trae LED his team to 2 victories in the Eastern Conference Finals. 

Horf's team stumbled into the Eastern Conference Finals and Got Swept.

That's Atlanta Hawks history...

I don't give a f--k about Pettit because he never played in Atlanta and didn't want to.  He is not an Atlanta Hawk.

Therefore, Trae Young... is the winningest LEAD player in Atlanta Hawks History. 

Horford is a very good ROLE Player. 

 

 

 

Pettit retired after the 1964-65 season.  The Hawks didn't move to Atlanta until the 1968 season.  That is BS about him not wanting to play in Atlanta.  It was Lenny Wilkens who didn't want to play in Atlanta.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Watchman

[Watchman]

On 4/18/2023 at 11:44 AM, REHawksFan said:

Of course not.  He's criminally underrated in terms of the popular opinion of how good he actually is.  If you catch Supes in the right frame of mind, even he has made posts about how elite Trae is offensively.  The fact that the national narrative around him is so poor is a testament that he's underrated rather than overrated.

 

Correct.  Coaches let everyone know how good of a player he is by how they play him.  It's no mystery.

 

If the question had been who is the most POLARIZING player in the NBA, then no doubt, Trae would win.  And should win.  People either love him or hate him.  Very few in between.  But overrated?  Not even close.  

Perhaps they meant he is most overrated by Atlanta fans.

[Diesel]

18 minutes ago, Watchman said:

Pettit retired after the 1964-65 season.  The Hawks didn't move to Atlanta until the 1968 season.  That is BS about him not wanting to play in Atlanta.  It was Lenny Wilkens who didn't want to play in Atlanta.

Maybe so.  I was always told that he decided to stay in Baton Rouge and work at the Bank instead of play in Atlanta.  Maybe he retired and was asked to come out of retirement to start the new franchise.  Sheez, he was only 32 when he retired. 

 

[Watchman]

On 4/18/2023 at 12:35 PM, Gray Mule said:

Over rated?  This must mean that he's not as good as he is rated.  Apparently, some rated him as trash.  Can't get much lower than trash!  Is he over rated as trash?

Trae is not a super star.  His biggest fans are the youth of the world.  Kids love him.  They want a Hawk shirt with Trae's number on it.  Check the fans in the home crowd.  To the children, he's their super star.

Prolonged, season long shooting slump.  I cringe when he misses one of his free throws - - and he does.  Whatever the problem, here's hoping it goes away right now!  We need our Trae back tonight!

 

I cringe when he does his inevitable pounding of the ball too long and ends up with a shot clock violation or a turnover. How many years will it take him to realize that doesn't work out well?  (The definition of insanity - doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.)

Edited April 20, 2023 by Watchman

[REHawksFan]

22 hours ago, Diesel said:

I see it differently.  I don't see it as a confidence issue.   I think there are some areas of confidence that causes him to overcompensate.. but that's play by play and not because of headlines. 

The real culprit is that we have surrounded him with Players who can't shoot. 

During our run...

Bogi, Gallo, Kev, and even JC was shooting from outside with decent numbers...

These are the playoff numbers. 

Now let's consider this years numbers..

It's a big change.   Lou was on his last leg, but even Lou could be counted on to hit a shot.   Hunter and Young are taking 6.5 threes per game and we're seeing 23% shooting from three from both of them.  Murray nailed 7 threes last night and he's only shooting 37% from outside.   Collins is shooting 12.5% from three and he's putting up 4 a game.   And Bey has had a bad series thus far.

We don't have reliable shooters and you know what Boston is doing?  

• Sit back and dare us to shoot.
• Run out on the rebound.
• crowd the paint.

And get credit for playing good defense. 

The lapses in scoring is about us still trying to put up 3 pters.  Like I said last game.. Only Bogi should have a green light when it comes to shooting threes. 

Secondly.. JC is the biggest player on the court.  Why isn't he in the low post trying to score?  He has taken 3.5 2 pters a game so far.   That's ridiculous when you have DJ shooting 15 and Trae 13.5.  If Coach is about spacing, call for some clearouts.  Get JC the ball at the elbow and let him eat. 

 

 

 

 

I think this is exactly right.  The Hawks have one of the worst FG% in the paint in these playoffs because there is no space.  Conversely, according to NBA Tracking, the Hawks have the 2nd MOST 3pt attempts that are considered WIDE OPEN in the playoffs.  Their conversion rate?  DEAD ASS LAST at 17.5%.  Think about that.  They shooting 17.5% on WIDE OPEN 3s in the playoffs!!  

[REHawksFan]

7 hours ago, Watchman said:

I cringe when he does his inevitable pounding of the ball too long and ends up with a shot clock violation or a turnover. How many years will it take him to realize that doesn't work out well?  (The definition of insanity - doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.)

As do I.  But let's not act like that's a regular occurrence.  It's happens somewhere around once every 3 or 4 games on average.  

But more interestingly to me is the amount of dribble our guys take per possession.  I've long felt like, in general, they do too much dribbling and not enough passing on a possession by possession basis.  And to no ones surprise, the data bears that out as Trae led the NBA this season in dribble per touch - followed closely by:

• Jalen Brunson
• Darius Garland
• Luka
• Shai
• Ja

No real surprise there.  BUT, in the playoffs, here's what the Top 6 look like:

• Brunson
• Steph Curry
• Ja
• Donovan Mitchell
• Spencer Dinwiddie
• Darius Garland

Trae comes in 7th in the playoffs, but his avg dribble per touch drops fairly significantly from 5.66 in the regular season to 4.81 in the playoffs. All of the above guys have increased their dribbling in the playoffs while Trae decreased his. This would imply there's been more passing in the playoffs from Trae.  But the data indicate he has nearly the same amount of passes per game in the playoffs as the regular season.  So less dribbling, but not more passing?  

On the team side though, the Hawks rank 16th out of 16 in passes made per game.  They rank 12th in Assists but 3rd in potential assists (owing to the fact that they can't shoot).  It should be noted that they ranked last in the regular season in passes made per game as well.  

I think the takeaway here is the Hawks have a team full of guys that dribble a lot without much passing.  Passes are only utilized to set up immediate scoring as they led the NBA in Ast-Pass%.  

[macdaddy]

38 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

I think this is exactly right.  The Hawks have one of the worst FG% in the paint in these playoffs because there is no space.  Conversely, according to NBA Tracking, the Hawks have the 2nd MOST 3pt attempts that are considered WIDE OPEN in the playoffs.  Their conversion rate?  DEAD ASS LAST at 17.5%.  Think about that.  They shooting 17.5% on WIDE OPEN 3s in the playoffs!!  

Exactly.   Everything else is just noise.   This is the only thing that matters right now and as we build a team.   We can't have a team full of not only below average shooters but total  lack of clutch shooting.  

[bleachkit]

5 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Exactly.   Everything else is just noise.   This is the only thing that matters right now and as we build a team.   We can't have a team full of not only below average shooters but total  lack of clutch shooting.  

Bogi is the only guy on the team I would consider a genuine shooter, aside from AJ who is more of a prospect at this point. 

[NBASupes]

52 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

I think this is exactly right.  The Hawks have one of the worst FG% in the paint in these playoffs because there is no space.  Conversely, according to NBA Tracking, the Hawks have the 2nd MOST 3pt attempts that are considered WIDE OPEN in the playoffs.  Their conversion rate?  DEAD ASS LAST at 17.5%.  Think about that.  They shooting 17.5% on WIDE OPEN 3s in the playoffs!!  

We been bad at shooting all season, this shouldn't be a surprise 

[JayBirdHawk]

55 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

I think this is exactly right.  The Hawks have one of the worst FG% in the paint in these playoffs because there is no space.  Conversely, according to NBA Tracking, the Hawks have the 2nd MOST 3pt attempts that are considered WIDE OPEN in the playoffs.  Their conversion rate?  DEAD ASS LAST at 17.5%.  Think about that.  They shooting 17.5% on WIDE OPEN 3s in the playoffs!!  

17 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Exactly.   Everything else is just noise.   This is the only thing that matters right now and as we build a team.   We can't have a team full of not only below average shooters but total  lack of clutch shooting.  

That and Point of Attack defense.

[NBASupes]

19 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

That and Point of Attack defense.

POA defense is fine. As long as Trae is on the bench. We got four plus defenders. While do they look a lot worse when Trae is on the floor on D. I've been screaming about this for years but it falls on the deaf ears of Trae stans

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced?SeasonType=Playoffs&dir=A&slug=advanced&sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION

Edited April 20, 2023 by NBASupes