We are going to have another shot to get Ayton!

[AHF]

4 hours ago, JTB said:

There are so many players throughout this new nba era that does that including our very own Trae.

I'm not happy with any player when the stop trying on defense, etc. because they want more touches.  That includes Trae.  Certainly would include Ayton.  It is one of the best character traits we've seen from JC.  You know he wants a bigger role and more touches on offense and he's shown every bit as much in the way of production as Ayton (JC has a higher career TS% and has two season where his PPG were higher than Ayton's career high).  But JC is out there grinding every game anyway. 

While Ayton has increased from 10 FGA/gm to 12.0 FGA/gm to 13.2 FGA/gm, JC has dropped from 12.2 to 11.9 to 10 but JC always gives high effort.  That should be recognized as a good thing, and Ayton's attitude should be acknowledged as a bad thing. 

Doesn't mean Ayton is a worthless player or that he might not be very positive in a different role, etc. but it is a very negative aspect of his character and game. 

[JTB]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I'm not happy with any player when the stop trying on defense, etc. because they want more touches.  That includes Trae.  Certainly would include Ayton.  It is one of the best character traits we've seen from JC.  You know he wants a bigger role and more touches on offense and he's shown every bit as much in the way of production as Ayton (JC has a higher career TS% and has two season where his PPG were higher than Ayton's career high).  But JC is out there grinding every game anyway. 

While Ayton has increased from 10 FGA/gm to 12.0 FGA/gm to 13.2 FGA/gm, JC has dropped from 12.2 to 11.9 to 10 but JC always gives high effort.  That should be recognized as a good thing, and Ayton's attitude should be acknowledged as a bad thing. 

Doesn't mean Ayton is a worthless player or that he might not be very positive in a different role, etc. but it is a very negative aspect of his character and game. 

I’ve seen Collins give up and frown on defensive plays and not get back in transition plenty of times.

I think Collins has a good overall attitude towards the team but this whole idea that all Collins do is work with no complaints is ridiculous.

Also Collins is no where near Ayton status offensively. That’s why he doesn’t get the ball. It’s not the same…Collins can’t dribble, he can’t pass, he’s not really physical, I’ve seen times where he wasn’t able to move smaller players in the post, he doesn’t have length and this season we find out that he can’t really shoot.

In fact Collins best ability of coming off the pick can be mitigated with simple length because he struggles finishing over the top of taller more physical defenders.
 

Did I mention that he’s not a committed screener as he ALWAYS slips screens!…I’m not trying to bash JC but he’s really not that good offensively. He can thank Trae for those seasons where he looked like a 20 point scorer until you really sit down and watch him.

Collins should be a 5th option at best on any championship level team. So if you’re saying great we have our 5th option….then understood.

 

I vote for the potential elite talent of Ayton over the good team player attitude of Collins any day. We will not see the best version of Collins unless he’s put back in a primary pick and roll situation and even then we still have to worry about the length and power issues. 

[AHF]

1 minute ago, JTB said:

I’ve seen Collins give up and frown on defensive plays and not get back in transition plenty of times.

I think Collins has a good overall attitude towards the team but this whole idea that all Collins do is work with no complaints is ridiculous.

Also Collins is no where near Ayton status offensively. That’s why he doesn’t get the ball. It’s not the same…Collins can’t dribble, he can’t pass, he’s not really physical, I’ve seen times where he wasn’t able to move smaller players in the post, he doesn’t have length and this season we find out that he can’t really shoot.

In fact Collins best ability of coming off the pick can be mitigated with simple length because he struggles finishing over the top of taller more physical defenders.
 

Did I mention that he’s not a committed screener as he ALWAYS slips screens!…I’m not trying to bash JC but he’s really not that good offensively. He can thank Trae for those seasons where he looked like a 20 point scorer until you really sit down and watch him.

Collins should be a 5th option at best on any championship level team. So if you’re saying great we have our 5th option….then understood.

 

I vote for the potential elite talent of Ayton over the good team player attitude of Collins any day. We will not see the best version of Collins unless he’s put back in a primary pick and roll situation and even then we still have to worry about the length and power issues. 

I'm not saying I wouldn't trade JC for Ayton or that JC's effort and attitude is perfect.  You absolutely can make a case that is convincing to me to go for the higher ceiling talent that Ayton has.  I'm saying JC's attitude is dramatically better than Ayton's.  Ayton routinely gives less than full effort and that is a problem and a big risk in trading for him.  If I knew Ayton was going to have the same commitment to the team as JC has had (granting that nobody including JC is perfect), I'd be all over Ayton as a trade target.  As it is, I'm interested in him but wary because of how consistently effort has been an issue for him.

[Diesel]

Ayton is missing this...

Spoiler

 

 

[JTB]

7 minutes ago, AHF said:

I'm not saying I wouldn't trade JC for Ayton or that JC's effort and attitude is perfect.  You absolutely can make a case that is convincing to me to go for the higher ceiling talent that Ayton has.  I'm saying JC's attitude is dramatically better than Ayton's.  Ayton routinely gives less than full effort and that is a problem and a big risk in trading for him.  If I knew Ayton was going to have the same commitment to the team as JC has had (granting that nobody including JC is perfect), I'd be all over Ayton as a trade target.  As it is, I'm interested in him but wary because of how consistently effort has been an issue for him.

Got it.

I still think it’s the team. Ayton did try to leave the suns last offseason and go to Indy but of course the suns matched the offer then proceeded to put him back into the same role he’s not happy in.

my point is they have a disgruntled player who wants more but they don’t want more for him. The suns want Ayton to be Kevin looney despite the way higher contract ….

from the hawks perspective …from a talent standpoint, we are an 8th seed or play in team with the best version of Collins . With Ayton we bounce to the 4th or 5th seed with potential to be a top 4 seed in my view.

 

[AHF]

54 minutes ago, JTB said:

Got it.

I still think it’s the team. Ayton did try to leave the suns last offseason and go to Indy but of course the suns matched the offer then proceeded to put him back into the same role he’s not happy in.

my point is they have a disgruntled player who wants more but they don’t want more for him. The suns want Ayton to be Kevin looney despite the way higher contract ….

from the hawks perspective …from a talent standpoint, we are an 8th seed or play in team with the best version of Collins . With Ayton we bounce to the 4th or 5th seed with potential to be a top 4 seed in my view.

 

It depends what we trade for him.  A Hunter / CC trade for Ayton would leave us with a worse team, imo.  I can see other deals that would be much more promising.  A price point decision for me.

[JTB]

10 minutes ago, AHF said:

It depends what we trade for him.  A Hunter / CC trade for Ayton would leave us with a worse team, imo.  I can see other deals that would be much more promising.  A price point decision for me.

Ayton for Capela works straight up. No others need to be included.

once Phx loses to Denver which I’m fully expecting they will be looking to improve somewhere and will place the blame on Ayton more than likely like they did last playoffs.

 

Its probably one of the best situations for the Hawks this upcoming offseason honestly.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

28 minutes ago, JTB said:

Ayton for Capela works straight up. No others need to be included.

once Phx loses to Denver which I’m fully expecting they will be looking to improve somewhere and will place the blame on Ayton more than likely like they did last playoffs.

 

Its probably one of the best situations for the Hawks this upcoming offseason honestly.

 

Ayton makes $32 million. Capela makes $21 million. $11 million dollar difference - Hawks cannot take back that much in salary without sending out more salary.

[Spud2nique]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

Ayton makes $32 million. Capela makes $21 million. $11 million dollar difference - Hawks cannot take back that much in salary without sending out more salary.

Fck Ayton ain’t no way we gettin him and we don’t want that dummy on our side. The insiders are wrong on this. NO WAY. BOOK IT! 

[JayBirdHawk]

So he gave himself this nickname: 

"Domin"-Ayton

[shakes]

Ayton is a clown and will never improve any team he goes to.  Go look up Fool's Gold in the dictionary and there's a picture of this clown.

 

[Atlantaholic]

There were questions about Ayton's desire and drive coming out of college and he has done NOTHING to put those to rest. I echo the sentiments on people on here, I don't think acquiring Ayton is a move that helps put us in a championship trajectory. The dude has been in a fantastic situation in a perennial championship contender and is malcontent. The only thing he cares about is his bag. Once he gets that bag his effort is only going to get worse. 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, Atlantaholic said:

There were questions about Ayton's desire and drive coming out of college and he has done NOTHING to put those to rest. I echo the sentiments on people on here, I don't think acquiring Ayton is a move that helps put us in a championship trajectory. The dude has been in a fantastic situation in a perennial championship contender and is malcontent. The only thing he cares about is his bag. Once he gets that bag his effort is only going to get worse. 

He already got his bag: $32, $34, $35 million over the next 3yrs.

[Gray Mule]

$$$$ necessary to obtain one of the giants (Centers) that so many covet.  Perhaps the draft is the way to go.  Saying this, I know, as the man said, when you bite into a box of candy you never know what's inside.

Question:  How many 7 ft. + players are available in the draft?  Is there any good prospects in this group?  What are the chances we could draft one of them when it's our turn?

Personally, I wonder what our GM and our new head coach are thinking about next season's Hawk team.  Some players will return.  Some will not.  All the other Atlanta teams have reloaded.  Braves, Dream and Falcons all look ready to go make noise.  What about the Hawks?

 

[JayBirdHawk]

7 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

$$$$ necessary to obtain one of the giants (Centers) that so many covet.  Perhaps the draft is the way to go.  Saying this, I know, as the man said, when you bite into a box of candy you never know what's inside.

Question:  How many 7 ft. + players are available in the draft?  Is there any good prospects in this group?  What are the chances we could draft one of them when it's our turn?

Personally, I wonder what our GM and our new head coach are thinking about next season's Hawk team.  Some players will return.  Some will not.  All the other Atlanta teams have reloaded.  Braves, Dream and Falcons all look ready to go make noise.  What about the Hawks?

 

It all depends on if our owner is willing to be a Luxury Tax payer. As long as we are penny pinching to get under the tax, we'll mostly likely be in the 'not serious contender' status.

[shakes]

3 hours ago, Atlantaholic said:

There were questions about Ayton's desire and drive coming out of college and he has done NOTHING to put those to rest. I echo the sentiments on people on here, I don't think acquiring Ayton is a move that helps put us in a championship trajectory. The dude has been in a fantastic situation in a perennial championship contender and is malcontent. The only thing he cares about is his bag. Once he gets that bag his effort is only going to get worse. 

the one thing that has never made sense to me about Ayton is how is he in such good physical shape?    Everything about his mental make up suggests overweight out of shape lazy bum who would rather sit on the couch playing video games than hit the gym, yet the guy looks like he's pure muscle with no body fat.  I never understood that dichotomy.  

[JTB]

On 5/2/2023 at 2:05 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

Ayton makes $32 million. Capela makes $21 million. $11 million dollar difference - Hawks cannot take back that much in salary without sending out more salary.

Ok I forgot about this new contract he’s on. I didn’t realize he was at 32 mil per season now. Should have traded for him before last offseason.

[JTB]

4 hours ago, Atlantaholic said:

There were questions about Ayton's desire and drive coming out of college and he has done NOTHING to put those to rest. I echo the sentiments on people on here, I don't think acquiring Ayton is a move that helps put us in a championship trajectory. The dude has been in a fantastic situation in a perennial championship contender and is malcontent. The only thing he cares about is his bag. Once he gets that bag his effort is only going to get worse. 

How is this true? The year they went to the finals Ayton did exactly what was asked.

the Ayton we see today is being coached by a guy he got into it with and then he tries to leave only for this very same team to match his salary.

what you don’t like and @JayBirdHawk doesn’t like is the fact that he just kept it real publicly on what’s bothering him. TRUST…he ain’t the only one that feels that way about wanting touches offensively.
 

I don’t understand the hate towards Ayton. If this was D Howard saying he wants touches offensively then I’d understand since Howard was not gifted skill wise offensively whatsoever but Ayton literally has skills not being maximized. It’s a completely different situation we are talking about here.

[JTB]

1 hour ago, shakes said:

the one thing that has never made sense to me about Ayton is how is he in such good physical shape?    Everything about his mental make up suggests overweight out of shape lazy bum who would rather sit on the couch playing video games than hit the gym, yet the guy looks like he's pure muscle with no body fat.  I never understood that dichotomy.  

Because you among others in this thread are judging his character by what he said publicly and by what some scouts said about him.

it’s literally the same exact thing people do to Trae but because we are hawk fans and watch literally his every game , we can dispel the BS.

Ayton not lazy he just don’t like the Looney, Capela role. He feel his talent is better than that and I highly agree. 

[JayBirdHawk]

10 minutes ago, JTB said:

Ok I forgot about this new contract he’s on. I didn’t realize he was at 32 mil per season now. Should have traded for him before last offseason.

We talked about this as nauseum last year...a SnT was more difficult because of Ayton's BYC as a RFA. Suns couldn't take back Capela without sending out more salary like Shamet while the Hawks had to take back Aytons new salary which would still have the Hawks dumping salary to take back Aytons $30 mil.