We are going to have another shot to get Ayton!

[JTB]

I know …..I know….not this topic again.

Sorry but I can tell after Suns first road loss vs the nuggets that we will get another shot to trade for Ayton it’s very obvious he’s unhappy and I’m just not going to let the media change my thoughts on who he is and can be as a player. 
 

Even after this……

 

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2023/04/29/phoenix-suns-deandre-ayton-blasted-lack-of-effort-denver-nuggets/70167308007/#lh31gzkuknxc6ci0zf
 

 

I wouldn’t bring Ayton up if I DIDN’T know he was a two way player waiting to be unleashed. He’s not better defensively than capela but not many centers today are. Ayton is not poor defensively as the media tries to make him at times. Even PHX fans often say at times he looks great and at other times he doesn’t but usually the “doesn’t” is followed up with “when he’s not engaged”. But that’s the key in all of this ….Ayton wants to be engaged offensively a lot more. It’s very important to him. The whole reason he went number 1 in his draft class was because of his offensive abilities and the Suns don’t fully utilized Aytons offensive abilities in Monty’s scheme.

 

Many will see Aytons frustration about not being involved offensively the way he wants to be as a bad thing or place some kind of immaturity on him..….but I view it as a true reflection of how many players are. Let me break it down this way….

 

Look at Luka for example…Luka is 6’8 and today he plays no defense but defensively isn’t why he was drafted for ….that’s not to say he doesn’t have to play defense but mavs traded for him in to be an offensive force however also thought at 6’8 he could possibly play some decent defense too. Either way my point is Luka is getting the opportunity to do what he was drafted for and isn’t playing defense cause he’s just not good at it on top of being lazy! However Luka doesn’t get enough blame for being a wash defensively, instead it’s just accepted by most…….Now let’s look at Aytons situation he’s drafted for the same reason as Luka ….to be an offensive force with Booker (at that time) but Ayton doesn’t get the same opportunity as Luka or even our very own Trae Young. Instead Ayton is being used like he’s a Capela type! Monty wants Ayton to play defense, rebound, and shut up. But can you imagine how frustrating it is to have offensive talent that’s miles and miles better than a Capela type but still be placed in a Capela type role!…Capela is the way he is because he knew early on he has no way of being an offensive weapon what so ever so it’s easy for him to be overly committed defensively. Ayton is a two way player on a team that wants to use him one way….think about it.

Personally I respect Ayton cause he kept it real publicly last offseason and as recent as this year regarding his offensive role. He wants to be involved heavily offensively and he keeps saying this. The big man wants the rock simple as that and then he’s a guarantee to be LOCKED in offensively and defensively. I knew the addition of KD would make this situation worse for him so I’m hoping for a sweep.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2023/01/07/wanting-the-ball-deandre-ayton-addresses-role-in-phoenix-suns-offense/69786775007/

 

This is one of the few or maybe only scenarios we have to get an additional big time scorer without giving up Murray. Despite what people want to believe we do have an offensive problem just not as bad as much as we do defensively but here is a guy who can be a two way player by simply being engaged. Here in Atlanta, Ayton can be the number 1 scoring option easily in Synders scheme. The offense will always be centered around Trae but no doubt Ayton can be option 1, Murray option 2, then Trae option 3 and Trae will still be the engine offensively.

 

Defensively Ayton can be good on this end as long as he’s involved offensively and to me that’s not asking for too much from such a skilled offensive big man. Ayton was locked in defensively 2 years ago when Suns went to the Finals. He has very good mobility defensively for a 7’1 true center.

 

Per our insiders…last off season the front office stupidly allowed Trae to stop a potential Capela for Ayton trade that was close. Since then our insiders said Trae came around to the idea afterwards during the trade deadline. I believe this trade in particular will reopen and get to serious discussions. This trade just needs to happen. It’s literally a good move for both teams …then we can figure out how to move JC.

Starting lineup:

Trae

Murray

Hunter

OO

Ayton

[JTB]

Ayton has an elite hook shot like Trae has an elite floater.

 

 

[Diesel]

Ayton can be all that and a bag of chips in terms of ability and potential..

But when do you address  Attitude and Desire?

I have looked in his face.   He may hate Phoenix or does he hate Basketball?  You can't teach motivation and when I look at Ayton, I see a guy who will probably be out of basketball before his next contract.   I mean.. Look at him

 

He's playing under Monty Williams, one of the best coaches in the game.   With CP3, one of the best floor generals the game has seen and Booker and he's very malcontent.

There was a reason that Trae stopped the trade last summer.   I would be willing to bet that keeping CC wasn't the only reason. 

 

[sturt]

For what it's worth, which is nothing, I have no interest in that player. None.

He is the epitome of a self-centered player. Me, me, me.

Would love to have him on a video game, but in real life, no.

Said the same thing this time last year when some were yelling for Ben Simmons. Unlike Ben, though he'll generate some offensive numbers for you, and some flashes of defense. He'll be productive in that way.

But if PHX wins anything, it will be in spite of him, not because of him. He's not a positive force.

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

There was a reason that Trae stopped the trade last summer.   I would be willing to bet that keeping CC wasn't the only reason. 

I would be willing to bet and said it early and often last summer that Nate had influence on that one... because I presume Nate and his best coaching friend had private conversations as best friends do, and because I presume that in that mix almost had to be some private stories where Monty revealed his frustrations with that kid.

[Final_quest]

I could see a version of this whether we move Capela or Collins for Ayton.  Main question is draft capital involved.  Would it take one pick or two, and if we give two picks we have nothing left in the cupboard.  

Murray is our main trading chip apart from draft capital.  I still think teams would trade two first round picks to get Murray.  I consider Trae untouchable. 

Then you have Okongwu, AJ, and JJ.  We don't want to trade those guys, but Phoenix dealt a better prospect in Bridges to get Durant.  If we want to get someone like Jaylen Brown, we're gonna have to give up our best.  

Capela, Collins, and Bogi are contract filler?  Not sure they have significant value, but could be wrong.  

[theheroatl]

After watching our season play out, we need to do something with JC and CC. Dre, I guess we keep him while we go through that change.

If Ayton comes to replace those two then I’m on board with it. We just need a combination of Ayton and Kyle Anderson. So a really strong defensive player to come with Ayton. 
 

OO definitely should start though so there is a lot to work through this off-season. I think if we had a 3 point shooting 5 then that opens a whole lot of doors.

Edited April 30, 2023 by theheroatl

[kg01]

I'm not super big on Ayton, considering the apparent motivation/drive issues.

But, after how things ended for him/them last season where they basically blamed and benched him then refused to pay him ... they shouldn't be surprised he seems kinda checked out for them. 

[bleachkit]

It would be a big risk to trade for him. I doubt we have an offer that Phoenix would be interested in anyway. 

[akay]

We get frustrated at CC for missing easy bunnies, but this frustration is easy to reconcile when you look at Clints overall production for his pay. He hustles, plays defense, grabs boards, and never gives up on plays.

The frustration form Ayton playing with no energy, not finishing plays, on top of paying him the max - I don't know if I can stomach that.

Landry is big on character like he should be, and I don't think Ayton fits what we're trying to do.

[kg01]

3 minutes ago, akay said:

We get frustrated at CC for missing easy bunnies, but this frustration is easy to reconcile when you look at Clints overall production for his pay. He hustles, plays defense, grabs boards, and never gives up on plays.

The frustration form Ayton playing with no energy, not finishing plays, on top of paying him the max - I don't know if I can stomach that.

Landry is big on character like he should be, and I don't think Ayton fits what we're trying to do.

Yeah, this is why I'm torn.  Even if he doesn't fix the touch around the rim, his energy/effort is needed.  That said, his injury prone-ness throughout a season is problematic.  Perhaps flipping his and OOs roles can help there.

I really think, under Snyder, even if we make no changes we'll be markedly better.

[sturt]

  

On 9/27/2022 at 9:06 PM, sturt said:

Yeah, I'm even just a little more happy that none of those Ayton predictions turned out... and a little more persuaded that McM likely wasn't exactly enthusiastic about the idea, assuming NBA brothers talk...

 

 

  

On 2/2/2023 at 9:23 AM, terrell said:

I was sniffing around the Suns board and a guy asked what the Suns fans thought of Ayton.

Let me say this, if any Hawks fan is frustrated with JC or CC, you might not like Ayton on our team.

I'm usually hard on JC especially (a lot of that is fit with Capela) but I will say this, He always hustles and works. Ayton seems to be the opposite according to people who watch him every night.

 

  

On 1/21/2023 at 2:00 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

sometimes a team needs a guy that's going to do the dirty work: set screens, rebound, play defense and not complain about getting touches on offense - is Ayton willing to do that. There are a lot of mouths on offense to feed already.

 

 

[warcore]

10 hours ago, JTB said:

I know …..I know….not this topic again.

Sorry but I can tell after Suns first road loss vs the nuggets that we will get another shot to trade for Ayton it’s very obvious he’s unhappy and I’m just not going to let the media change my thoughts on who he is and can be as a player. 
 

Even after this……

 

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2023/04/29/phoenix-suns-deandre-ayton-blasted-lack-of-effort-denver-nuggets/70167308007/#lh31gzkuknxc6ci0zf
 

 

I wouldn’t bring Ayton up if I DIDN’T know he was a two way player waiting to be unleashed. He’s not better defensively than capela but not many centers today are. Ayton is not poor defensively as the media tries to make him at times. Even PHX fans often say at times he looks great and at other times he doesn’t but usually the “doesn’t” is followed up with “when he’s not engaged”. But that’s the key in all of this ….Ayton wants to be engaged offensively a lot more. It’s very important to him. The whole reason he went number 1 in his draft class was because of his offensive abilities and the Suns don’t fully utilized Aytons offensive abilities in Monty’s scheme.

 

Many will see Aytons frustration about not being involved offensively the way he wants to be as a bad thing or place some kind of immaturity on him..….but I view it as a true reflection of how many players are. Let me break it down this way….

 

Look at Luka for example…Luka is 6’8 and today he plays no defense but defensively isn’t why he was drafted for ….that’s not to say he doesn’t have to play defense but mavs traded for him in to be an offensive force however also thought at 6’8 he could possibly play some decent defense too. Either way my point is Luka is getting the opportunity to do what he was drafted for and isn’t playing defense cause he’s just not good at it on top of being lazy! However Luka doesn’t get enough blame for being a wash defensively, instead it’s just accepted by most…….Now let’s look at Aytons situation he’s drafted for the same reason as Luka ….to be an offensive force with Booker (at that time) but Ayton doesn’t get the same opportunity as Luka or even our very own Trae Young. Instead Ayton is being used like he’s a Capela type! Monty wants Ayton to play defense, rebound, and shut up. But can you imagine how frustrating it is to have offensive talent that’s miles and miles better than a Capela type but still be placed in a Capela type role!…Capela is the way he is because he knew early on he has no way of being an offensive weapon what so ever so it’s easy for him to be overly committed defensively. Ayton is a two way player on a team that wants to use him one way….think about it.

Personally I respect Ayton cause he kept it real publicly last offseason and as recent as this year regarding his offensive role. He wants to be involved heavily offensively and he keeps saying this. The big man wants the rock simple as that and then he’s a guarantee to be LOCKED in offensively and defensively. I knew the addition of KD would make this situation worse for him so I’m hoping for a sweep.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2023/01/07/wanting-the-ball-deandre-ayton-addresses-role-in-phoenix-suns-offense/69786775007/

 

This is one of the few or maybe only scenarios we have to get an additional big time scorer without giving up Murray. Despite what people want to believe we do have an offensive problem just not as bad as much as we do defensively but here is a guy who can be a two way player by simply being engaged. Here in Atlanta, Ayton can be the number 1 scoring option easily in Synders scheme. The offense will always be centered around Trae but no doubt Ayton can be option 1, Murray option 2, then Trae option 3 and Trae will still be the engine offensively.

 

Defensively Ayton can be good on this end as long as he’s involved offensively and to me that’s not asking for too much from such a skilled offensive big man. Ayton was locked in defensively 2 years ago when Suns went to the Finals. He has very good mobility defensively for a 7’1 true center.

 

Per our insiders…last off season the front office stupidly allowed Trae to stop a potential Capela for Ayton trade that was close. Since then our insiders said Trae came around to the idea afterwards during the trade deadline. I believe this trade in particular will reopen and get to serious discussions. This trade just needs to happen. It’s literally a good move for both teams …then we can figure out how to move JC.

Starting lineup:

Trae

Murray

Hunter

OO

Ayton

Excellent post @JTB. I'm all about it. I'd welcome Ayton WAAAYYYYYY before coming around to KAT. He's the obvious buy low and unleash the beast choice. I don't see another player in that situation. 

[warcore]

6 hours ago, Diesel said:

when I look at Ayton, I see a guy who will probably be out of basketball before his next contract.

avatar bet?

[warcore]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

It would be a big risk to trade for him. I doubt we have an offer that Phoenix would be interested in anyway. 

CP3 liked playing with CC and he would replace Ayton as starting Center. Phoenix gave a lot of wing/frontcourt depth up to get Durant. They can replace those with whatever they want of Dre/JC/filler. 

A lineup of CP3/Book/Dre/KD/Capela seems to have all aspects of basketball covered. 

Defense everywhere, rebounding, playmaking, shooting, scoring... 

... and their window is closing with CP3/KD.... time to go with vet CC over Ayton. 

[sturt]

23 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I really think, under Snyder, even if we make no changes we'll be markedly better.

 

I remain agnostic on whether any change will  happen, and for that matter, whether any change should  happen.

But I trust Snyder to have the heaviest voice in the conversations that make those determinations.

Whatever he thinks.

And yeah, I'm inclined to believe he's going to end up concluding that just as he was able to make Utah a legit contender with a C who contributes in every other way except shooting jumpers, he'll be able to pull that off here. But we'll see.

 

34 minutes ago, akay said:

We get frustrated at CC for missing easy bunnies, but this frustration is easy to reconcile when you look at Clints overall production for his pay. He hustles, plays defense, grabs boards, and never gives up on plays.

The frustration form Ayton playing with no energy, not finishing plays, on top of paying him the max - I don't know if I can stomach that.

Landry is big on character like he should be, and I don't think Ayton fits what we're trying to do.

Yep.

[Spud2nique]

@JTB you rang my bell fa DIS? 

[AHF]

1 hour ago, warcore said:

CP3 liked playing with CC and he would replace Ayton as starting Center. Phoenix gave a lot of wing/frontcourt depth up to get Durant. They can replace those with whatever they want of Dre/JC/filler. 

A lineup of CP3/Book/Dre/KD/Capela seems to have all aspects of basketball covered. 

Defense everywhere, rebounding, playmaking, shooting, scoring... 

... and their window is closing with CP3/KD.... time to go with vet CC over Ayton. 

No freaking way I’m trading Hunter and CC or JC for Ayton.  I’m not a huge Ayton fan but the talent does intrigue.  If we want to make a change, we should be doing something more akin to a one for one deal where Phoenix unloads a malcontent for a less talent but more motivated player in JC or CC.  Hunter gets trades for me (along with other assets) only in scenarios where we upgrade him.

[Phunkabilly]

1 hour ago, akay said:

We get frustrated at CC for missing easy bunnies, but this frustration is easy to reconcile when you look at Clints overall production for his pay. He hustles, plays defense, grabs boards, and never gives up on plays.

The frustration form Ayton playing with no energy, not finishing plays, on top of paying him the max - I don't know if I can stomach that.

Landry is big on character like he should be, and I don't think Ayton fits what we're trying to do.

Well, if I recall correctly, I believe @Sothron said that we had a deal in place to acquire Ayton at the trade deadline, but the Suns backed out at the last minute to trade for Durant.  In other words, that would lead me to assume that Landry is all over Ayton, characters flaws be damned.  However, two big changes occurred since those trade talks... 1) Atlanta supposedly got real pissed at James Jones for backing out of the trade last minute, so maybe they have no interest in entering trade talks with them again this offseason out of spite, and 2) Quin Snyder has entered the picture, and should have a big say on whether we pursue Ayton again.  I'm real curious what Quin thinks about him.

[JayBirdHawk]

39 minutes ago, Phunkabilly said:

believe @Sothron said that we had a deal in place to acquire Ayton at the trade deadline, but the Suns backed out at the last minute to trade for Durant.  In

IIRC, the deal was something like Crowder and Shamet for JC...it wasn't an Ayton deal.

[Peoriabird]

Why the fascination with guys like Ben Simmons, Kyrie, Kat, Paul George, and now Ayton again.  I just don't get it.

Opps, I forgot Johnathan Issac...Sorry Diesel