Keep One, Keep Two: Dre, JC, CC.....Now Dre, CC, Bogi

[StonedDogs]

Watching these playoffs its obvious the Hawks have no one on their team like a Randall, a Rui, Looney, Tucker, or Jokic, Draymond. 

 

Just a bunch of Aytons. OO gotta get some dog in him. Too much potential 

[JustSomeGuy]

This is really a question of which two fit best. Dre would benefit from playing beside a true floor spacer (3 or 4) and a defensive big.

Collins needs an big who can stretch the floor and still rebound (because he doesn’t anymore) and Capela is Capela. He can play beside either so long as the 4 doesn’t crowd the paint.

Because of that, Dre and Capela are the easiest to build around. JC has to go because his contract doesn’t match production and his skillet, is hardest to find a fit around. 

[Diesel]

3 minutes ago, JustSomeGuy said:

Collins needs an big who can stretch the floor and still rebound (because he doesn’t anymore)

I think you need to reexamine the rebounding of Collins.   It's hard to rebound playing beside a guy pulling down rebounds like his life depended on it. 

 

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

I think you need to reexamine the rebounding of Collins.   It's hard to rebound playing beside a guy pulling down rebounds like his life depended on it. 

 

Is there a way to compare his rebound rate when on the floor with CC versus when CC is off the floor?  I have no doubt CC significantly reduces JC's rebounding but I also kind of feel like his rebounding is probably still down from prior years when CC is off the floor.

Just taking a simple approach of looking at JC's rebounding in games that CC didn't play in we see:

5 

14

7

7

10

8

9

13

12

8

9

7

8

4

 

That is an average 8.6 rebounds per game without CC.  That feels right to me.  Worse than when he was averaging 9.8 and 10 rpg but significantly better than when CC plays.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

So the selections so far are:

Keep one: Dre.

Between CC and JC...votes tally 7-6 for CC, so

Keep two: Dre and CC

 

[Diesel]

On 5/4/2023 at 11:37 AM, AHF said:

That is an average 8.6 rebounds per game without CC.  That feels right to me.  Worse than when he was averaging 9.8 and 10 rpg but significantly better than when CC plays.

Well, the other part to that story is the Nate offense.   Most of the time on offense, JC is 30 feet away from the basket.  

Rebounding is about technique and effort.  JC has both but the other component is placement.  The great Dennis Rodman would watch his team practice and would count the seconds and watch the rotation of the ball when his teammates missed shots in practice.  He had his own algorithm for each player when the shot went up from their spot.  It's Genius like you would find with OCD or something but he understood that he would be in the right place.   When CC is in the game, JC is never in the right place for a Offense rebound.

Here's a look at JC's offensive boards.

 

When CC comes in, JC's ORB goes from 2.8 to 1.9.  With Nate fully at the helm it goes from 1.9 to 1.7 then 1.1. 

 

[JustSomeGuy]

@Diesel do you see that being better or worse in an offensive system where your 4s are expected to be floor spacers?

If worse, then we know who doesn’t fit. 

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, JustSomeGuy said:

@Diesel do you see that being better or worse in an offensive system where your 4s are expected to be floor spacers?

If worse, then we know who doesn’t fit. 

@JustSomeGuy

It's nuanced.   It depends on the system.   Let's say the 4 is a floor spacer.  Like KD. 

These are his total rebounds when he played in GS.  These are three of his highest Rebounding totals.   8.3rpg is his highest period.  How is that.  KD is king of the floor spacing 4s.   IDK??  In fact, look at his 3pt attempts per game.

The 6.1 is his second highest 3pt attempt output of his career.    He did this while playing with the splash brothers and Draymond. 

My point is Scheme can be developed that allows a 4 to rebound better.   Maybe not offensively if he's a floor spacer.. but certainly defensively. 

Just for grins... they needed his rebounding..

 

I believe that one of the failings of Nate's offense this year was the lack of shooters.   Nate forced us back into an older modeled offense that was dependent on floor spacing to work.   We ran less PNR.  We ran about the same Iso ball... And we were predictable.   If JC shoots 38% all season, I think things could have been different.   We would have opened the floor better...especially when we played weaker teams early. 

 

[bird_dirt]

On 5/1/2023 at 4:16 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

If you had to keep one - who would you keep?

If you had to keep two - who would you keep?

And why?

Someone once told me I’m known around these parts for being a contrarian. I don’t know if I believe that, but I’m going to lean into here. 

Keep one: JC. I think he’s much better than what he has been the past 18 months. I think his hand + Nate really messed him up, but we’ve slowly started to see him come out of it. If we trade him, we are selling low, we get nothing back in return and the other team profits. 
As for not keeping CC or DH? I think they will bring back much more value in any trade. 
I wouldn’t mind if we trading JC at the next trade deadline or offseason if Quin gets his value up and we can sell higher. 
Asset management. 

Now get to this (where the contrarian really shines)…

Keep Two: CC and DH. I think only moving one player is more likely to be a salary dump move. JC and CC can’t play together, so it has to be one of those two to go. CC’s contract is shorter and cheaper, so moving JC offers more cap savings. We can roll with a front court rotation of CC-OO-JJ-DH if need be. 
 

TBH, I’m not in love with any of these players, so if any of them leave, I won’t be heartbroken. I personally like JC the most, even if he’s the worst performer. I think his stock has more room to rise over the next year though. 

[JayBirdHawk]

10 minutes ago, Sothron said:

The only real rumor I can report is that it seems very likely at least one of our starting front court will be traded before next season. 

With Soth's rumors, might be time to revisit this.  Who is THE ONE that gets traded?

[Final_quest]

On 5/9/2023 at 9:51 AM, bird_dirt said:

Someone once told me I’m known around these parts for being a contrarian. I don’t know if I believe that,

Exactly what a contrarian would say.  

[bird_dirt]

8 hours ago, Final_quest said:

Exactly what a contrarian would say.  

You got me lolol

[StonedDogs]

Try to get rid of all of them. Hawks don't even have a Maxey on their squad. 

[MarylandHawk]

Clint

Clint is just the better of three right now  

Dre and Clint

I thinks Dre and Collins can get us Kat with some combination of a young guy or a pick. 

[JayBirdHawk]

On 5/1/2023 at 4:16 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

If you had to keep one - who would you keep?

If you had to keep two - who would you keep?

And why?

The game is the same, but the names have changed!!!

Let's Play:

If you had to keep one - who would you keep?

If you had to keep two - who would you keep?

And why?

[REHawksFan]

4 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

The game is the same, but the names have changed!!!

Let's Play:

If you had to keep one - who would you keep?

If you had to keep two - who would you keep?

And why?

Bogi

Bogi / Dre

 

I've said it before, but I'm fine keeping Dre and CC as long as they are coming off the bench in back up roles.  I don't want either starting.  I'm not trading Bogi unless I'm getting legit better in the process.  

[JeffS17]

Bogi

Bogi Dre

 

Bogi has intangibles that few on our squad have— super competitive, loves big moments, plays aggressive, and can shoot.

Dre has none of the above but he can play in a lot of different lineups and serves an important role thats hard to find.  Wish he played aggressive but thats just not who he is— guy can barely pull down 2-3 boards a game

 

CC has no role on our team at his price and lack of skillset.  Trae cant even help him anymore as he has brick hands and has declined hard and fast..

[RedDawg#8]

Bogi

Bogi, CC

Every stat possible shows that we are better with Bogi on the court and that our best basketball is played when CC plays his best. How often he can reach his best remains to be seen, but his production correlates to wins. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

( If I was being held off the balcony by Suge Knight, like Vanilla Ice was )

Bogi

Bogi / Clint

 

( If Suge Knight was in jail )

I ain't keeping none of you MFs

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

If I was being held off the balcony by Suge Knight, like Vanilla Ice was )

Bogi

Rumor has it that @kg01 held Suge off the balcony for a sec. Urban legend.