Making the case for a Collins & KP Frontcourt

[JTB]

I thought this deserved its own thread because while I personally think Ayton is the best choice big man to go after this offseason ….another good potential move would be to bring in Kristaps Porzingis . Outside of Trae and DJ….KPs presence would allow Collins to be a true offensive threat again which the JC lovers should 100% get behind.

Regardless of Synders offensive scheme …..there will always be a some type of heavy pick and rolls involved with Trae and Murray within the scheme but primarily Trae. We all know that the pick and roll or pick and pop is bread and butter for our elite passer even if defenses know it’s coming. It’s the spacing and gravity that makes it hard to defend against Trae and the continuity of it being ran by DJ when Trae isn’t in the game.

Obviously….KP opens up spacing on the floor for Trae that he hasn’t seen since his first two seasons in the NBA. It also opens up the floor for DJ who I don’t believe has ever seen that much spacing since being in the nba. 
 

Not much need to be said on how it would work offensively. Synder will implement his scheme of course but in simple terminology KP will easily pull away big defenders from the goal, Collins goes back to his original bread and butter plays of being the primary pick and roller for Trae, while also regaining some confidence to be a shooter on plays but not required to be a shooter all game like he has to be today next to Capela….and instead of using Capela to do this role of setting screens and rolling to the basket you have a much quicker big in Collins doing this again and putting pressure on the rim which MAY force teams to play smaller if we are doing this at a fast pace.
 

So there you have it. KP skill set as an elite shooter makes Collins relevant again offensively by allowing Collins to go back to using his elite off ball movement to set himself up for easy buckets WITH the big help of Traes passing.
Now I don’t know how we’d get KP since he’s a free agent….clearly we’d have to give up capela in what I assume would be to a team who can take on his contract without sending us much in return but from an offensive perspective that one move of replacing Capela with KP fixes all of offensive issues we have in the starting lineup between skill set and scheme.

 

DEFENSE ???

Notice I didn’t say anything about defense?….Yup well there’s not much to say. KP actually had a good defensive year protecting the goal this season and was a (+) in RAPTOR defensively with the wizards and we all know Collins has improved as a team defender the past two seasons. I’d definitely say JC is a better defender than Kuzma so maybe that would make Kristaps a bit better on that end if he played next to JC…..but let’s be real ….we don’t know what we’d be getting here defensively or rebound wise with these two. This would be Quinn and staff biggest challenge with a starting lineup of Trae, DJ, Hunter, JC, KP….again we KNOW this starting lineup is a walking bucket that could easily be the #1 offense next season but that’s our only KNOW.

Then again ….I have to remind myself that KP did put on the muscle and is no longer that thin mint Phil Jackson drafted years ago….so perhaps that’s why he’s better around the goal defensively now and able to stay healthy. Sometimes these risk are worth it.

 

https://www.mensjournal.com/health-fitness/kristaps-porzingis-workout-bulk-up-gym-dallas-mavericks

[JayBirdHawk]

2 hours ago, JTB said:

Now I don’t know how we’d get KP since he’s a free agent….clearly we’d have to give up capela in what I assume would be to a team who can take on his contract without sending us much in return 

KP has a player option for $36 million.

Clint makes $21 million. 

Hawks will still need to move an additional $15 million in a trade. Who are you proposing?

Even if we give away CC for nothing, we still don't have any free agent money under the salary cap to offer KP a free agent deal if he opts out.

[bleachkit]

My idea is simple, but highly effective. Load up on every washed up/total bust guard and/or swingman. Some players I'm eyeing, John Wall, Dennis Smith Jr, Kemba Walker, Cam Reddish, 

[Final_quest]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

KP has a player option for $36 million.

Clint makes $21 million. 

Hawks will still need to move an additional $15 million in a trade. Who are you proposing?

Even if we give away CC for nothing, we still don't have any free agent money under the salary cap to offer KP a free agent deal if he opts out.

This is an interesting point regarding our roster.  We don't have a lot of filler for trades.  It's the end of the roster only Bruno, Vit, Tyrese Martin, and Garrison Matthews.  Bruno is $2.58M. Matthews is $2M, Vit and Martin are each about $1.8M. 

That gives us around $8M total for filler.  Every other piece is a significant part of our current roster.  It's not like we'll want to throw in AJ, Bey, or Okongwu to help salaries match.  

 

[ShooterSays]

4 hours ago, JTB said:

KPs presence would allow Collins to be a true offensive threat again which the JC lovers should 100% get behind.

I'm 100% onboard the KP to ATL train and am glad someone else finally is LOL

I think the pairing needs to be KP / OO though. KP is a much more consistent and versatile scorer than JC. Both OO and KP are 2 guys who could potentially be top 10 in blocks.

Also, I think JC would be needed for the salary match in a trade.

[ShooterSays]

Ant Edwards -

“To me the best rim protector in the league is (Kristaps) Porzingis.”

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

KP has a player option for $36 million.

Clint makes $21 million. 

Hawks will still need to move an additional $15 million in a trade. Who are you proposing?

Even if we give away CC for nothing, we still don't have any free agent money under the salary cap to offer KP a free agent deal if he opts out.

Let me help him...

 

For it to work, this would have to be the type of configuration that we're talking. 

The problem is that you're trading good contracts for 1 year deals.   @JTB doesn't understand that this could end up being just a rental.  Or we could be hamstrung with an extension. 

The idea of KP for CC is a better offering than going after Ayton.   KP gives a lot more to work with.. but 1 year on the deal. 

 

 

[ShooterSays]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

Let me help him...

 

For it to work, this would have to be the type of configuration that we're talking. 

The problem is that you're trading good contracts for 1 year deals.   @JTB doesn't understand that this could end up being just a rental.  Or we could be hamstrung with an extension. 

The idea of KP for CC is a better offering than going after Ayton.   KP gives a lot more to work with.. but 1 year on the deal. 

 

 

Wizards have Gafford. If they lose Kuz, which I think they will, JC makes a lot more sense for them + a pick.

KP has his player option this year, but I could see something similar to what we did with Bogi this year. He declines and instead signs a 4 year deal. 

[Final_quest]

3 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

Ant Edwards -

“To me the best rim protector in the league is (Kristaps) Porzingis.”

As stated.  We'd pretty much have to throw in Bogi to make that trade work with CC.  Then you have a big decision to make with signing KP long term.  Typically when you trade for someone that needs to be resigned you committed to them and they hold a lot of power in negotiations.  Meaning we'd be looking at committing to a big 3 of Trae, DJM, and KP with a huge portion of our cap dedicated to them.  

Listening to Brad Rowland, it seems like the front office is looking more at giving the center position to Okongwu.  Okongwu at PF is possible, but I'm not convinced that's what the FO has in mind.  

[ShooterSays]

2 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

As stated.  We'd pretty much have to throw in Bogi to make that trade work with CC.  Then you have a big decision to make with signing KP long term.  Typically when you trade for someone that needs to be resigned you committed to them and they hold a lot of power in negotiations.  Meaning we'd be looking at committing to a big 3 of Trae, DJM, and KP with a huge portion of our cap dedicated to them.  

Listening to Brad Rowland, it seems like the front office is looking more at giving the center position to Okongwu.  Okongwu at PF is possible, but I'm not convinced that's what the FO has in mind.  

I really like Brad, might have to go back and listen to that pod. Here's the trade I mocked in my off-season thread. They can debate about the draft compensation and hopefully it just costs us 1 pick. But I don't think it costs Bogi.

At some point, Washington is going to have to step back and consider a rebuild, which I think happens this off-season. JC is still a young player and can fit next to Gafford and they also get a pick back here (or 2 if that's what it takes).

KP works as a PF and keeps OO at center. KP can extend to 3 and OO can also step out and hit a jumper so this frontcourt gives you the spacing you want with Trae, but is also formidable on D.

[Diesel]

3 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

Wizards have Gafford. If they lose Kuz, which I think they will, JC makes a lot more sense for them + a pick.

KP has his player option this year, but I could see something similar to what we did with Bogi this year. He declines and instead signs a 4 year deal. 

First and Foremost, the Wizards need to get their new GM...  No moves will be made before that.  They fired Tommy Shepard a few weeks ago.   They say that Masai Ujiri is who they want and that he may have interest.. I heard it was a done deal but I also heard that Nurse was going to Houston.. so who knows. 

If they get Ujiri, I think his first order of business is the draft.  Then getting rid of all the 1 year deals that Shepherd escorted in.   And I don't think they are building around Beal.  So everybody is available. 

I like Gafford as a project.   I can suppose he stays under the right circumstance.   Kuz has been good but I see them taking calls on him.. even right now.  He's on a bargain deal and if some team can get him to sign an extension they would be happy. But hes' not signing an extension.  He wants max like money.  
IF I were them, I would keep the KP, Gaff frontline and try to hold on to it.   I would see if I could get somebody like Bridges.  Even if it meant taking on Simmons bad deal. 

But we shall see. 

 

 

 

 

[Diesel]

10 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Okongwu at PF is possible, but I'm not convinced that's what the FO has in mind

The front office is right because OO is not a PF.   I don't care how many times it's posted here... he's not a PF.   He loses his best advantage being moved to PF.   Brown and Tatum and White and Brogdon had a field day with OO in the playoffs.   Oh.. we were very quiet about it but even though OO got blocks,  they were styling on him.  His speed becomes meaningless if he moves to PF..

BUT... With Kp here, between KP and OO we don't have to call them anything. Just don't play a switching defense. 

 

 

[JTB]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

Let me help him...

 

For it to work, this would have to be the type of configuration that we're talking. 

The problem is that you're trading good contracts for 1 year deals.   @JTB doesn't understand that this could end up being just a rental.  Or we could be hamstrung with an extension. 

The idea of KP for CC is a better offering than going after Ayton.   KP gives a lot more to work with.. but 1 year on the deal. 

 

 

LOL…Oh I understand it! if he opts in to his player option it’s a 1 year rental but I don’t think KP will. He will opt out and use this good season to get what’s likely his last big contract.

oh and I’d give up JC for a KP rental if he does opt in to his current contract. That’s easy and worth the risk.

Giving up Hunter in this scenario is idiotic.

[JTB]

3 hours ago, Final_quest said:

As stated.  We'd pretty much have to throw in Bogi to make that trade work with CC.  Then you have a big decision to make with signing KP long term.  Typically when you trade for someone that needs to be resigned you committed to them and they hold a lot of power in negotiations.  Meaning we'd be looking at committing to a big 3 of Trae, DJM, and KP with a huge portion of our cap dedicated to them.  

Listening to Brad Rowland, it seems like the front office is looking more at giving the center position to Okongwu.  Okongwu at PF is possible, but I'm not convinced that's what the FO has in mind.  

From a defensive standpoint OO would be PF compared to KP. Offensively OO would play center sure. But you are what you can defend and OO can defend 4s at this level even better than JC.

[JTB]

3 hours ago, ShooterSays said:

I really like Brad, might have to go back and listen to that pod. Here's the trade I mocked in my off-season thread. They can debate about the draft compensation and hopefully it just costs us 1 pick. But I don't think it costs Bogi.

At some point, Washington is going to have to step back and consider a rebuild, which I think happens this off-season. JC is still a young player and can fit next to Gafford and they also get a pick back here (or 2 if that's what it takes).

KP works as a PF and keeps OO at center. KP can extend to 3 and OO can also step out and hit a jumper so this frontcourt gives you the spacing you want with Trae, but is also formidable on D.

OO would turn into the primary rim runner while Synder and staff slowly work on getting his jumper going.

but again TO ME you are what you can defend. KP cannot be a PF because he can’t move his feet whatsoever and defend on the perimeter. What KP can do is protect the rim decently and what OO can do defensively is both. OO can guard 4s and do his part in protecting the rim.

I do agree that OO fits better with KP from a defensive standpoint than Collins would so even on a 1 year deal I’d gamble JC for KP.

[ShooterSays]

34 minutes ago, JTB said:

OO would turn into the primary rim runner while Synder and staff slowly work on getting his jumper going.

but again TO ME you are what you can defend. KP cannot be a PF because he can’t move his feet whatsoever and defend on the perimeter. What KP can do is protect the rim decently and what OO can do defensively is both. OO can guard 4s and do his part in protecting the rim.

I do agree that OO fits better with KP from a defensive standpoint than Collins would so even on a 1 year deal I’d gamble JC for KP.

I'm a believer in "position-less basketball." But if we're going to put labels on them, I think KP is your 4 and OO your 5 on offense. On defense, OO is your 4 and KP is your 5.

[JeffS17]

Have you guys been watching Ayton in this playoffs?  I'm not sure I want to go get that guy and his contract.  He doesn't fit with OO either who has been our most productive young player, so we'd be sending out a very good, very promising young player for a marginally better offensive player and worse defender (in the most important position for defense).  Ayton is a shitty rebounder too.  Anyways, KP is interesting to me depending on what we'd have to give up, which shouldn't be more than matching salaries imo -- maybe JC and Clint together.  I can see a KP/OO frontcourt working very well together

[NBASupes]

Not a fan. KP needs real touches. Since his primary value is offense, he's just not a good fit. If there was a blended player of Bertrans and KP, that player would be a perfect fit offensively but he would have never been traded from Dallas if that player existed. He just needs too many real touches. He would get less here than in DAL and they sold him at a lost.

[Final_quest]

10 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Anyways, KP is interesting to me depending on what we'd have to give up, which shouldn't be more than matching salaries imo -- maybe JC and Clint together.  I can see a KP/OO frontcourt working very well together

If Washington is rebuilding why would they take on JC and Clint instead of letting KP expire?  I guess they would look to part with one or both via trade, or this would have to be a multi-team deal.  

[ShooterSays]

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Not a fan. KP needs real touches. Since his primary value is offense, he's just not a good fit. If there was a blended player of Bertrans and KP, that player would be a perfect fit offensively but he would have never been traded from Dallas if that player existed. He just needs too many real touches. He would get less here than in DAL and they sold him at a lost.

Not sure if I agree with this. Here's the highlights of him torching our bigs for 43. Almost all of his points are coming off assists. Watch the pick and pop around the 2:18 mark. Imagine that with Trae.