Discussion about Hunter and Trae (split off from insider thread)

[RedDawg#8]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

We still have to define what's a good superstar.   I don't see you pushing for PG13 or Zion...

 

Good superstars are never the available superstars. The only superstars that become available are going to have enough flaws that make it practical to trade them with out being torched by the fan base. PG13 has flaws (health, age, contract) Zion has flaws (weight, maturity)

The only times a premium talent becomes available is if they force a trade or become a Free Agent. Otherwise, teams are not shopping good stars.

I say that to say, every guy we are rumored to want will carry issues that are not-palatable to some. It is what it is.

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

He has also made a total of 2 all star appearance in a 5 year career which does not include last year.  None all stars can't be considered super stars

He has been invited to the All-Star game as a starter or reserve 4 out of the last 4 years.  You know this but you keep pretending like you don't.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Good superstars are never the available superstars. The only superstars that become available are going to have enough flaws that make it practical to trade them with out being torched by the fan base. PG13 has flaws (health, age, contract) Zion has flaws (weight, maturity)

The only times a premium talent becomes available is if they force a trade or become a Free Agent. Otherwise, teams are not shopping good stars.

I say that to say, every guy we are rumored to want will carry issues that are not-palatable to some. It is what it is.

What he is asking is what is your definition of a superstar and what separates him from the star player?

Just now, AHF said:

He has been invited to the All-Star game as a starter or reserve 4 out of the last 4 years.  You know this but you keep pretending like you don't.

as a replacement.  He was not voted or chosen by the coaches..Big difference

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

He has been invited to the All-Star game as a starter or reserve 4 out of the last 4 years.  You know this but you keep pretending like you don't.

What's your definition of a super star then AHF?  And does trae young meet those criteria.  I'm only asking because I know you have a strict definition that doesn't include inefficient volume scorers like Mello.

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

What's your definition of a super star then AHF?  And does trae young meet those criteria.  I'm only asking because I know you have a strict definition that doesn't include inefficient volume scorers like Mello.

He played at a superstar level in 2021-22 for me but not last year.  He has put up historic numbers and had more than his share of clutch playoff wins but consistency is the big hurdle for him to get there for me in the bigger picture.

Superstar is a nebulous term which usually does lead to people arguing more about the definition of the word (as opposed to debating whether a player meets a commonly accepted definition).  I'm getting back to work right now so I'm not stepping into it.  I was just pointing out that citing his number of All-Star appearances is a disingenuous argument when you know he turned down two non-starter invitations and pretend like that didn't happen.

[RedDawg#8]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

He has also made a total of 2 all star appearances in a 5 year career which does not include last year.  Non-all stars can't be considered super stars

Whatever that means. 2 time All Star STARTER. as in the fans chose him as a top 10 player that season. And both times he has easily one of the higher vote getters. That's more than just Hawks fans my guy.

By your definition then, since we are counting All-Star appearances in their 1st 5 years

Steph wasnt a superstar (1 All star by season 5)

Giannis cant be a superstar (2 all stars by season 5)

Jokic is not a superstar (2 all stars by season 5)

Embiid is not a superstar (2 all stars by season 5)

 

And guess what? Only Giannis and Embiid were both starters in their first 2 All Star games.

Heck Jimmy Butler didn't even make the All Star game this season, is he not a superstar anymore?

Flawed logic/argument

[ABH]

Making the Allstars doesn't mean anything 

[JeffS17]

Just now, ABH said:

Making the Allstars doesn't mean anything 

It means you were one of the best 3-6 players at your position (out of 30 starters) for the first ~2/3 of a season.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

He played at a superstar level in 2021-22 for me but not last year.  He has put up historic numbers and had more than his share of clutch playoff wins but consistency is the big hurdle for him to get there for me in the bigger picture.

Superstar is a nebulous term which usually does lead to people arguing more about the definition of the word (as opposed to debating whether a player meets a commonly accepted definition).  I'm getting back to work right now so I'm not stepping into it.  I was just pointing out that citing his number of All-Star appearances is a disingenuous argument when you know he turned down two non-starter invitations and pretend like that didn't happen.

You are such a clever Lawyer!  But I know what you are saying! But we do know a superstar when we see them like Magic, Bird, Jordan, Lebron, Kobe, Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, Curry, Giannis, Embiid, Durant Now Jokic etc.  Players  like Kyrie, Paul George, Devin Booker etc just aren't

[GameTime]

5 minutes ago, ABH said:

Making the Allstars doesn't mean anything 

Yes it does

[Peoriabird]

17 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Whatever that means. 2 time All Star STARTER. as in the fans chose him as a top 10 player that season. And both times he has easily one of the higher vote getters. That's more than just Hawks fans my guy.

By your definition then, since we are counting All-Star appearances in their 1st 5 years

Steph wasnt a superstar (1 All star by season 5)

Giannis cant be a superstar (2 all stars by season 5)

Jokic is not a superstar (2 all stars by season 5)

Embiid is not a superstar (2 all stars by season 5)

 

And guess what? Only Giannis and Embiid were both starters in their first 2 All Star games.

Heck Jimmy Butler didn't even make the All Star game this season, is he not a superstar anymore?

Flawed logic/argument

Young has not accomplished half of what any of those players have accomplished.  These guys have been MVP's of the league!  Was Young's name even on the ballot?

[Peoriabird]

9 minutes ago, warcore said:

You realize you quoted him comparing AJ and JJ, right?

There was no mention of anything you say here, remotely. How did you read his words and interpret them the way you did?

It was a question

[ABH]

2 minutes ago, GameTime said:

Yes it does

I'd disagree..that's just like mvp..most of the time there wrong just like this year..joker should have got it..alot shouldn't have..but that just my opinion..it's like being popular in high school

[Gray Mule]

38 minutes ago, Diesel said:

We still have to define what's a good superstar.   I don't see you pushing for PG13 or Zion...

 

Star player - - - - Home team sells out because fans come to see him play!

Superstar player - - - You are the visiting team and they have a sell out because you, the superstar, will play!

Edited July 7, 2023 by Gray Mule

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, Gray Mule said:

Star player - - - - Home team sells out because fans come to see him play!

Superstar player - - - You are the visiting team and they have a sell out because you, the superstar, will play!

I like it!!!!

[GameTime]

3 minutes ago, ABH said:

I'd disagree..that's just like mvp..most of the time there wrong just like this year..joker should have got it..alot shouldn't have..but that just my opinion..it's like being popular in high school

The NBA's Hall of Fame, Awards, and contract incentives disagree with you bro. You can say it doesn't mean anything to you.

[ABH]

2 minutes ago, GameTime said:

The NBA's Hall of Fame, Awards, and contract incentives disagree with you bro. You can say it doesn't mean anything to you.

Yeah there wrong

[ABH]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I like it!!!!

And then the prices go up,up, and away !!

[MarylandHawk]

4 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Star player - - - - Home team sells out because fans come to see him play!

Superstar player - - - You are the visiting team and they have a sell out because you, the superstar, will play!

I like this. Also when I think of superstar, it means their celebrity has reached beyond the basketball court and they resonate with casual fans, have commercial appeal, can move clothing and other products, has influence, and is can’t miss TV wether you like him or not. Early in Larry Birds career you could consider him a superstar even before he won anything in the nba and half the country hated him because they were Laker fans. Lol. Trae is a super star in my opinion. If he becomes a champion, he will be supernova. 

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, MarylandHawk said:

I like this. Also when I think of superstar, it means their celebrity has reached beyond the basketball court and they resonate with casual fans, have commercial appeal, can move clothing and other products, has influence, and is can’t miss TV wether you like him or not. Early in Larry Birds career you could consider him a superstar even before he won anything in the nba and half the country hated him because they were Laker fans. Lol. Trae is a super star in my opinion. If he becomes a champion, he will be supernova. 

So you look at super stars as cultural Icon not as the best basketball players so a guy like Rodman would be a bigger superstar than someone like Tim Duncan or Larry Bird