Discussion about Hunter and Trae (split off from insider thread)

[Spud2nique]

11 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Question to all 

Is Dre a top 20 defender in the NBA?

If not, where does he rank?

No. Absolutely not.

53rd

 

in eye test in the league. 
 

(Initially it was 47th but found a few better defenders).

 

[Spud2nique]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Dre has his flaws but he's a two-way player. 

My boy Saddiq is better all around. He’s a dog while Hunter can be spooked.

I dunno, the eye test and better overall dude to win a game for me is Saddiq>Hunt. 
 

Hunter got the Marv hesi in his game and by hesi, not a good hesi, like an indecisive one.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

My boy Saddiq is better all around. He’s a dog while Hunter can be spooked.

I dunno, the eye test and better overall dude to win a game for me is Saddiq>Hunt. 
 

Hunter got the Marv hesi in his game and by hesi, not a good hesi, like an indecisive one.

 

The hesi is accurate.  And my biggest issue with him is that he doesn't have the motor, nor the DESIRE, to be more than just . . . Dre. 

He is content as hell with being a B- / C+ player.

And let me reinterate something. This wouldn't be an issue with Hunter, if I were expecting him to be the 5th or 6th best player on the team.  At that point, he could play his Harrison Barnes role, blend into the background, and show up every blue moon.

But on a team that needs an influx of talent, or at least someone who is developing enough to jump to that next level, he NEEDS to be that guy.  He needs to consistently be our 3rd best guy on the floor, with the ability to be our #1 or #2 guy on occasion.

If his best attribute is defense, I need his defensive numbers to really start to show up from an impact standpoint.

 

Dre's defensive rating and overall numbers when Trae played last season:

 

Dre's defensive rating and overall numbers when Trae didn't play last season:

 

Now riddle me this?  

How is it possible that Dre had a WORSE defensive rating last season when Trae didn't play, than when he did play? 

Both numbers are horrible.  But they got WORSE when the WOAT defender wasn't playing with him?  And his overall production also went into the toilet as well?

For his career, Dre has a 118 defensive rating when Trae plays . . . a 117.8 defensive rating when Trae doesn't play.

Once again, where is the defensive impact?

 

But check this out.  Here's the most damning thing.  Trae is the "wing killa".  Wings are "clipped" when playing with Trae.  So let's see how Dre looks:

 

 

Minutes played are virtually equal.  The low rebounding and assists are virtually unchanged.  But look at the shooting %.  Seems to me like a certain "ball hog" PG knows when to get the ball to Dre in the right spots, in order to get somewhat average offensive production out of him.  But when he's not playing with Trae, he's as lost as Tom Hanks in Cast Away. He's more than likely doing a lot more shot creation and taking more difficult shots.

And since we're on wings and who flourishes with or without Trae, let's do one more

 

 

Let's stop the BS when it comes to Dre and his impact.  It's a reason why his metrics across the board are below average. And it has nothing to do with the people he plays with.  It has everything to do with HIM.

If we want him to be our Bruce Bowen or Raja Bell, fine.  I need to see B+ defense out of him then.  I need to see his name mentioned in the All-Defensive team conversations, even if he doesn't make the team.

Just do one thing consistently great.

 

And I still got more in the clip @NBASupes   

You're not going to win this battle unless Dre makes a dramatic improvement in his game.

 

Like I said . . . you don't wanna . . go to war with a soldier. 

 

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

The hesi is accurate.  And my biggest issue with him is that he doesn't have the motor, nor the DESIRE, to be more than just . . . Dre. 

He is content as hell with being a B- / C+ player.

And let me reinterate something. This wouldn't be an issue with Hunter, if I were expecting him to be the 5th or 6th best player on the team.  At that point, he could play his Harrison Barnes role, blend into the background, and show up every blue moon.

But on a team that needs an influx of talent, or at least someone who is developing enough to jump to that next level, he NEEDS to be that guy.  He needs to consistently be our 3rd best guy on the floor, with the ability to be our #1 or #2 guy on occasion.

If his best attribute is defense, I need his defensive numbers to really start to show up from an impact standpoint.

 

Dre's defensive rating and overall numbers when Trae played last season:

 

Dre's defensive rating and overall numbers when Trae didn't play last season:

 

Now riddle me this?  

How is it possible that Dre had a WORSE defensive rating last season when Trae didn't play, than when he did play? 

Both numbers are horrible.  But they got WORSE when the WOAT defender wasn't playing with him?  And his overall production also went into the toilet as well?

For his career, Dre has a 118 defensive rating when Trae plays . . . a 117.8 defensive rating when Trae doesn't play.

Once again, where is the defensive impact?

 

But check this out.  Here's the most damning thing.  Trae is the "wing killa".  Wings are "clipped" when playing with Trae.  So let's see how Dre looks:

 

 

Minutes played are virtually equal.  The low rebounding and assists are virtually unchanged.  But look at the shooting %.  Seems to me like a certain "ball hog" PG knows when to get the ball to Dre in the right spots, in order to get somewhat average offensive production out of him.  But when he's not playing with Trae, he's as lost as Tom Hanks in Cast Away. He's more than likely doing a lot more shot creation and taking more difficult shots.

And since we're on wings and who flourishes with or without Trae, let's do one more

 

 

Let's stop the BS when it comes to Dre and his impact.  It's a reason why his metrics across the board are below average. And it has nothing to do with the people he plays with.  It has everything to do with HIM.

If we want him to be our Bruce Bowen or Raja Bell, fine.  I need to see B+ defense out of him then.  I need to see his name mentioned in the All-Defensive team conversations, even if he doesn't make the team.

Just do one thing consistently great.

 

And I still got more in the clip @NBASupes   

You're not going to win this battle unless Dre makes a dramatic improvement in his game.

 

Like I said . . . you don't wanna . . go to war with a soldier. 

 

He's improved more in the last year than Trae did.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He's improved more in the last year than Trae did.

 

But the difference is this. 

If Dre improves, he becomes an average NBA SF who doesn't do much bad . . but hardly anything great.

If Trae improves, he legit becomes a candidate to become the top PG in the game, and maybe top 10 in the history of the game.

 

I guess that's what disappoints me more about your stance with Dre.  You know his limitations as a player, so you have ZERO expectations on his game. 

With Trae, he is scrutinized to the point that people think he's far less of a player than what he is.  But if he was greater, he'd be a MVP candidate.

There's a huge gap . . . a canyon even, when you talk about Dre's impact compared to Trae's impact on a game.

 

All we want Dre to be is consistently good, and for that "goodness" to show up in the box scores and lead to winning.

That's all we ask.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Or a better question to you, and everyone is this.

If Dre maximizes his talent, what is his ceiling as a player?

If you say Kawhi Leonard . . . OK.   Kawhi made his big jump in year 5.

 

But seriously.  What do people think Dre's ceiling is as a player?

[NBASupes]

36 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

But the difference is this. 

If Dre improves, he becomes an average NBA SF who doesn't do much bad . . but hardly anything great.

If Trae improves, he legit becomes a candidate to become the top PG in the game, and maybe top 10 in the history of the game.

 

I guess that's what disappoints me more about your stance with Dre.  You know his limitations as a player, so you have ZERO expectations on his game. 

With Trae, he is scrutinized to the point that people think he's far less of a player than what he is.  But if he was greater, he'd be a MVP candidate.

There's a huge gap . . . a canyon even, when you talk about Dre's impact compared to Trae's impact on a game.

 

All we want Dre to be is consistently good, and for that "goodness" to show up in the box scores and lead to winning.

That's all we ask.

He's an better than average SF right now

[NBASupes]

34 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Or a better question to you, and everyone is this.

If Dre maximizes his talent, what is his ceiling as a player?

If you say Kawhi Leonard . . . OK.   Kawhi made his big jump in year 5.

 

But seriously.  What do people think Dre's ceiling is as a player?

I think he's already near his ceiling in my opinion.

[Gray Mule]

Question:  Will the trade of JC act as a wake-up call to the other Hawk players on the roster?

??????

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Or a better question to you, and everyone is this.

If Dre maximizes his talent, what is his ceiling as a player?

If you say Kawhi Leonard . . . OK.   Kawhi made his big jump in year 5.

 

But seriously.  What do people think Dre's ceiling is as a player?

Marvin Williams. I honestly think they will pan out the same. Marv got better as the years went by but mainly due to reps, I don’t think he mexi mixed his potential. He just tried to focus in on the one thing he did well, the 20 foot middy, and worked on that and was able to stay in the league.

 

Same will happen with Hunter imo.

[Spud2nique]

25 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Question:  Will the trade of JC act as a wake-up call to the other Hawk players on the roster?

??????

Sadly I don’t think that will wake them up, Quin might.

[JayBirdHawk]

58 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I think he's already near his ceiling in my opinion.

That's unfortunate. The expectation is to want/expect more from your #4 pick particularly on a team starved for high end talent.

He's just not THAT guy! And that's ok I guess.

[macdaddy]

50 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Sadly I don’t think that will wake them up, Quin might.

I hope so.  Let's face it without JC we've got some weird personalities on the team.  Not disparaging anyone but Hunter and Trae aren't exactly natural leaders.  DJ is great but I imagine he's not everyone's cup of tea motivation wise.  

So i'm not sure who the heart of this team is right now.  But to your point i think it's going to be Quin for a while which maybe is a good thing. 

[Watchman]

5 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

My boy Saddiq is better all around. He’s a dog while Hunter can be spooked.

I dunno, the eye test and better overall dude to win a game for me is Saddiq>Hunt. 
 

Hunter got the Marv hesi in his game and by hesi, not a good hesi, like an indecisive one.

Bey is the worst defensive player on the team, and we have more than our fair share of bad defenders. When I got out of the hospital a couple of years ago, I had to use a walker for awhile.  My wife and I joke when we watch Hawks and other NBA games, that "I could have done better than that on my walker."  Bey is much better on offense than Hunter though.

[NBASupes]

@TheNorthCydeRises

 

 

 

[Watchman]

2 hours ago, Gray Mule said:

Question:  Will the trade of JC act as a wake-up call to the other Hawk players on the roster?

??????

I don't think so.  They get their paycheck, no matter what team they play for.

[AHF]

Feel like the title of that podcast needs a correction.  Pretty sure "John Collins traded to Hawks" is a little off the mark.

[Watchman]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

@TheNorthCydeRises

 

 

 

Wow, the headline says John Collins was traded to the Hawks.  I guess we changed our minds.

[Spud2nique]

8 minutes ago, AHF said:

Feel like the title of that podcast needs a correction.  Pretty sure "John Collins traded to Hawks" is a little off the mark.

We got JC!!!! Heck ya that dude a flat out baller !!! 

[Spud2nique]

11 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

@TheNorthCydeRises

 

 

 

How can I be expected to listen to the content when they were too lazy to get the trade right? Whose podcast is this?