Discussion about Hunter and Trae (split off from insider thread)

[LucastheThird]

35 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Hi Bird, 

What was your question, I remember you posted rosters but I can't remember what it was about

Nah that was me. I was asking who was the wing player that left Trae and flourished. 

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, bird_dirt said:

Lol. IDK. 
Maybe it was about someone asking if there is a Hunter replacement currently on the roster. I suggested a combo of JJ and Bey, where JJ plays PF on offense, SF on defense, and Bey plays the opposite roles. 
That’s a downgrade defensively overall, but a cheaper option assuming salary savings go towards upgrades at other positions. 
I tagged you bc you and I have gone back and forth on opinions about JJ at SF, me being more in favor of it than you. 

I don't believe we can replace him on defense. Because while Bey/JJ are excellent off the bench where Bey offensively is a 3 and JJ is a 4 and defensively JJ is a 3 and Bey is a 4 and it works. It's a lot harder when you are going up against starters than backups. JC will look a lot better as a 6th man as well. 

Offensively, Bey and JJ is better than Dre/JC. It's just that they have to develop a lot to be worthy of helping us and not hurting us. Defensively, Trae will feel it as well Murray. Hunter did a lot to make life easier for these two, especially Trae. Sometimes we don't noticed until it's gone. 

As far as outside of the league, man, Dre can easily be upgraded but there are only 10 options and none are currently available to us. As I said, if Kawhi or PG13 ever hit the open market, trade ASAP. 

Dre has a good number of flaws. He would generally be a backup if he wasn't so versatile on defense and that's why any team would want him. I also think he has some off ball movement potential if on a team where the rock moved more and players around him were capable of getting their own. 

My issue with JJ at the 3 isn't that he's bad at it because he's not. He just can't guard any 1s or 2s consistently. He fouls too much. That said, he's laterally better than Dre. He reads perimeter offensive players better. But he just doesn't have the core strength that Dre has. He doesn't handle bumps well. He is capable, just not any good. The off-ball defense is where JJ is a class above. He can read well. That's what I give him but his core strength issue is massive and I honestly think that's why he fouls too much. Core strength isn't easy to fix. Remember Marvin. JJJ still has it but he's greatly improved it. 

[bird_dirt]

6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I don't believe we can replace him on defense. Because while Bey/JJ are excellent off the bench where Bey offensively is a 3 and JJ is a 4 and defensively JJ is a 3 and Bey is a 4 and it works. It's a lot harder when you are going up against starters than backups. JC will look a lot better as a 6th man as well. 

Offensively, Bey and JJ is better than Dre/JC. It's just that they have to develop a lot to be worthy of helping us and not hurting us. Defensively, Trae will feel it as well Murray. Hunter did a lot to make life easier for these two, especially Trae. Sometimes we don't noticed until it's gone. 

As far as outside of the league, man, Dre can easily be upgraded but there are only 10 options and none are currently available to us. As I said, if Kawhi or PG13 ever hit the open market, trade ASAP. 

Dre has a good number of flaws. He would generally be a backup if he wasn't so versatile on defense and that's why any team would want him. I also think he has some off ball movement potential if on a team where the rock moved more and players around him were capable of getting their own. 

My issue with JJ at the 3 isn't that he's bad at it because he's not. He just can't guard any 1s or 2s consistently. He fouls too much. That said, he's laterally better than Dre. He reads perimeter offensive players better. But he just doesn't have the core strength that Dre has. He doesn't handle bumps well. He is capable, just not any good. The off-ball defense is where JJ is a class above. He can read well. That's what I give him but his core strength issue is massive and I honestly think that's why he fouls too much. Core strength isn't easy to fix. Remember Marvin. JJJ still has it but he's greatly improved it. 

I’m counting on solid improvement for JJ on court and in weight room. He’s already looking like he’s building muscle this offseason. 

[kg01]

14 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

@kg01 what would you ever do if I left this board?  It could be a month between my posts, you still hang on every one.  Tell me you’re fascinated by my perspective without really telling me you’re fascinated by my perspective.  I appreciate it either way.

To all that liked and thanked Kg’s attempt at humor, the block function was made specifically for you.  I know y’all hate me but I truly wish peace and prosperity upon you all.  

Listen, just pass the peas at Thanksgiving and we can keep pretending we like each other for the sake of the family. 

And stop bringing them weird green beans with onions.  Nobody eats em, bro.

Anyway, it's all in good fun.  No ill will intended. 

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, bird_dirt said:

I’m counting on solid improvement for JJ on court and in weight room. He’s already looking like he’s building muscle this offseason. 

I don't play about core strength, I think it's critical but if he can at least get it to a functional level, who knows? Just that I don't see many good examples. It's always big wings who get by at other levels till here without it. 

[Gray Mule]

26 minutes ago, kg01 said:

 

And stop bringing them weird green beans with onions.  Nobody eats em, bro.

 

Well cooked green beans and onions with corn bread!  Yummy!  

[AHF]

16 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Every year, there is a new sacrifice 

2021: Kevin

2022: Travis and Nate

2023: Could be Dre, Bogi, Clint, or JC

2024: JJ and Dejounte 

2025: AJ

2026: Saintus demands a trade that nobody in the NBA wants to pay .2 cent on a dollar for. Landry and Kyle are also sacrificed

Kevin

Curious how Kevin was sacrificed to Trae.  He was clearly dumped to save money not because of basketball reasons.  Kevin also flourished with us as a starter playing with Trae and stunk without Trae on the floor when he was coming off the bench.  

Kevin as a starter in Atlanta:

2021-22 12.9 PPG, 3.4 RPG, 2.9 APG

Kevin in Sacramento:

2022-23 15.2 PPG, 3.3 RPG, 2.9 APG

Slight uptick in %s and attempts leading to a jump of just over 2 points a game while the rest of his numbers were pretty much the same.  The biggest difference was that Kevin did less self-creation of shots in Sacramento.  But these aren't radically different players - 

JC/CC/Etc.

You're now claiming that if any member of the frontcourt gets moved it will be a "sacrifice" to Trae.  You say that while you have been personally calling to get rid of JC for years for reasons that presumably aren't because you want to sacrifice players to Trae but now if that happens it must be a "sacrifice" for Trae?  If the team wants to go with OO instead of CC and to save money or upgrade somewhere else on the roster that is a "sacrifice" to Trae?  This after Trae reportedly went to bat for CC to get the team to keep him instead of moving him for Ayton?  What?

I think it is overreaching to think that Trae is the sole reason these things have happened or could happen going forward.

[TheFuzz]

6 hours ago, bleachkit said:

Histrionics is not really that obscure of a word. 

What's your take on the word hubris?

Edit: just read this whole thread. Wow. 

Edited June 26, 2023 by TheFuzz

[TheNorthCydeRises]

6 hours ago, AHF said:

Wow.  Talk about taking it personally.  Obviously, Dre's impact in areas other than defense has been underwhelming but the defense he brings is very hard to replace so he remains critical.

Question to all 

Is Dre a top 20 defender in the NBA?

If not, where does he rank?

[JayBirdHawk]

59 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Question to all 

Is Dre a top 20 defender in the NBA?

If not, where does he rank?

you want me to use stats or the eye test?  

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

you want me to use stats or the eye test?  

 

Use all of your superpowers.

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

7 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Use all of your superpowers.

 

 

Magic 8 ball says 

[MarylandHawk]

On 6/25/2023 at 7:42 PM, NBASupes said:

All of Trae's wings will be on different teams and succeeding, whereas, next its Murray, then JJ, then AJ, then Bufkin, lol. When will it end!

You call what Kevin did this year succeeding? He was better with Trae. Lol. Oh how bout Cam? He was better with Trae. How bout Snell?  Oh he was better with Trae. Lol. Hunter has to live up to his end of the bargain. He was always suppose to complement Trae and be the defensive anchor for this team.  While he is a good player, we need him to be tenacious in all the hustle stats and establish a defensive identity for this team. He has not done so. Can I also remind everyone that he was drafted higher than Trae and we even traded up for him?  I am not a Dre hater but he has to be better if we are ever going to be considered a championship team with him on it. 

[MarylandHawk]

9 hours ago, NBASupes said:

It's funny how Nate haters can point to our poor passing numbers of last year but the year before, we had great passing numbers, but couldn't get stops so we were always playing in a half-court situation. 

I don't know what else you guys who praise Trae want. I really don't. 

Because it would be pointless, we have had Trae here for years. Some of our best offensive seasons have been recently with Trae. Our passing metrics was some of the best in the NBA for the RS. A shit playoff against Miami and everyone is crying to a secondary ball handler, we get one who can get stops on D and now we are crying because we can't make shots because we traded one of the best short movement wings in the NBA for peanuts because his minutes were going to be cut due to Murray. I don't know what you Trae stans want. 

You always have a lot of feel good shit to say but none of it makes sense to people like me who understand the game. 

You can't get much better players who are better than Trae to put around Trae and pay Trae the max and think it's going to work. That's not how the NBA works. Everyone is dealing with a limited budget and roster. This is on Trae, he can't be a max cat and not delivering. You are the king of feel good Trae posts but I am here to tell you, it's bullshit. It's always been bullshit. It will always be bullshit until Trae fixes his flaws. 

Before you say I am a hater. Trae is my favorite player on the squad. 

1. Trae

2. OO

3. Dre

4. Clint

5. A.J. 

6. JC

7. Bogi

8. JJ

9. Bruno

The only reason it seems like I go off on him is because of the delusion of his fans on this site. On RealGM, I never speak negatively of Trae because most of them are Trae haters. So I am usually defending him but you guys on here are so f***ing delusional when it comes to Trae. The amount of bullshit you say it outstanding when Trae is mentioned. 

But wait, Steph Curry got two max players after he got his max money.  Trae fan and Hawks fan. Deal with it. 

[JayBirdHawk]

34 minutes ago, MarylandHawk said:

On 6/25/2023 at 7:42 PM, NBASupes said:

 

You call what Kevin did this year succeeding?

Don't you understand that Kevin was the SINGULAR reason that the Kings were good this year....not their 2 All-Stars, not their 2 All-NBAers....Kevin! 

 

[Sothron]

I'm still waiting for anyone to disagree with me that Hunter is just a 3 & D player. That's literally the only two things he brings to the court. He can't pass, he can't dribble, he can't create, he can't rebound, he can't block and he can't get steals. Literally the only thing he brings is his wing defense and an average three point shooter as a NBA player. That is IT.

Trae Young is not stifling Hunter. I still am waiting for the magic beans to connect how Hunter is a bust as a #4 pick in the draft and somehow Trae Young is the fault for it. 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

I'm still waiting for anyone to disagree with me that Hunter is just a 3 & D player. That's literally the only two things he brings to the court. He can't pass, he can't dribble, he can't create, he can't rebound, he can't block and he can't get steals. Literally the only thing he brings is his wing defense and an average three point shooter as a NBA player. That is IT.

Trae Young is not stifling Hunter. I still am waiting for the magic beans to connect how Hunter is a bust as a #4 pick in the draft and somehow Trae Young is the fault for it. 

You mean, Trae is out on the court like this..

[Spud2nique]

16 hours ago, benhillboy said:

@kg01 what would you ever do if I left this board?  It could be a month between my posts, you still hang on every one.  Tell me you’re fascinated by my perspective without really telling me you’re fascinated by my perspective.  I appreciate it either way.

To all that liked and thanked Kg’s attempt at humor, the block function was made specifically for you.  I know y’all hate me but I truly wish peace and prosperity upon you all.  

Sincerely,

sKeet/scrub turnt T(h)under fan. 
 

The (sk)heet got teased  

[NBASupes]

8 hours ago, MarylandHawk said:

You call what Kevin did this year succeeding? He was better with Trae. Lol. Oh how bout Cam? He was better with Trae. How bout Snell?  Oh he was better with Trae. Lol. Hunter has to live up to his end of the bargain. He was always suppose to complement Trae and be the defensive anchor for this team.  While he is a good player, we need him to be tenacious in all the hustle stats and establish a defensive identity for this team. He has not done so. Can I also remind everyone that he was drafted higher than Trae and we even traded up for him?  I am not a Dre hater but he has to be better if we are ever going to be considered a championship team with him on it. 

Snell had better impact when he was younger. 

Baze had his worst prime years with Trae

So did Prince. 

I won't mention the scrubs because they were washed. 

Kevin had his best year with Sacramento 

Cam had has best year with New York.

Murray had his best year last year with SA

I am waiting for Trae to make players around him better. Al did it every season. 

Embiid is the ONLY player who got worse with Al. Just him. Everyone else got better. Nash can make the same claim, he made everyone around him better. 

Edited June 27, 2023 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

4 hours ago, Sothron said:

I'm still waiting for anyone to disagree with me that Hunter is just a 3 & D player. That's literally the only two things he brings to the court. He can't pass, he can't dribble, he can't create, he can't rebound, he can't block and he can't get steals. Literally the only thing he brings is his wing defense and an average three point shooter as a NBA player. That is IT.

Trae Young is not stifling Hunter. I still am waiting for the magic beans to connect how Hunter is a bust as a #4 pick in the draft and somehow Trae Young is the fault for it. 

He's a two-way wing. He can score on all three levels. 3&Ds don't finish and they avoid shooting mid range jumpers. 

Dre has his flaws but he's a two-way player.