Discussion about Hunter and Trae (split off from insider thread)

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Part 2:

 

 

The extensions we gave these 2 guys last year was good for stability, but catastrophic for flexibility.  Under the new CBA, both of these deals may turn out to be excellent.  But for a team that needs more talent, these two are also possible road blocks.

Internally, they're road blocks to AJ and JJ, because a coach will justify right now ( and rightfully so ), that Bogi and Dre are better players overall than AJ and JJ.

The question is . . how much better from a team aspect, are they really over these two?   And if AJ and JJ received similar minutes, what would their individual and team impact numbers be?

 

 

The Per 36 numbers say that AJ's production was already on par with Bogi and Hunter, while JJ's production ( despite playing another position ), was possibly more impactful, due to his defensive hustle numbers.  And now with Bey in the mix, we have a bunch of wings who are basically at the same level.  Now it's up to Quin to figure out which wings are most impactful to the team as a whole.

Once re-signed, Bogi and Hunter ate up 38 million in salary in 2023 that could've left us with 20 - 25 or so million this summer, if we wanted to make a run at someone in free agency. 

( Capologists, check the official numbers on that.  If Bogi and Hunter were free agents, and signed by someone else, how much cap space would the Hawks have? )

Now, the only way to truly remake the team, is with a somewhat blockbuster trade that sees us getting a higher level player, but giving up young assets to do it.  In that sense, the deals that Hunter and Bogi signed would be perfect to pair up with someone else, to trade for a greater player.  But if that player isn't available, the Hawks are stuck with these two for the forseeable future . . . unless they sell them off to gain draft picks.

And then there's the elephant in the room . . .

 

 

It's absolutely unacceptable for Dre to have the 14th highest PER on the team.  We flat out need more activity from him.  When you look at his VORP ( Value Over Replacement Player ), it's even worse.  He's dead last on the team.  Even behind the G-Leaguers.

 

 

It's unacceptable. 

Yes, he's a decent defender.  But that defense has sporadic impact on games.  Yes, his offense is decent, but he does nothing exceptional on the offensive end, outside of make midrange jumpers off the dribble.

It's everything else that he doesn't do to help the team, that actually hurts us.

So how much worse would be without Dre on the team, especially if we have Saddiq and AJ on the squad who can absorb his minutes?

 

If the Hawks brass do not believe that Dre can take that next jump, maybe he's the guy who should go first in a trade.  Sell Dre while his value isn't completely tarnished.

 

[NBASupes]

3 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Part 2:

 

 

The extensions we gave these 2 guys last year was good for stability, but catastrophic for flexibility.  Under the new CBA, both of these deals may turn out to be excellent.  But for a team that needs more talent, these two are also possible road blocks.

Internally, they're road blocks to AJ and JJ, because a coach will justify right now ( and rightfully so ), that Bogi and Dre are better players overall than AJ and JJ.

The question is . . how much better from a team aspect, are they really over these two?   And if AJ and JJ received similar minutes, what would their individual and team impact numbers be?

 

 

The Per 36 numbers say that AJ's production was already on par with Bogi and Hunter, while JJ's production ( despite playing another position ), was possibly more impactful, due to his defensive hustle numbers.  And now with Bey in the mix, we have a bunch of wings who are basically at the same level.  Now it's up to Quin to figure out which wings are most impactful to the team as a whole.

Once re-signed, Bogi and Hunter ate up 38 million in salary in 2023 that could've left us with 20 - 25 or so million this summer, if we wanted to make a run at someone in free agency. 

( Capologists, check the official numbers on that.  If Bogi and Hunter were free agents, and signed by someone else, how much cap space would the Hawks have? )

Now, the only way to truly remake the team, is with a somewhat blockbuster trade that sees us getting a higher level player, but giving up young assets to do it.  In that sense, the deals that Hunter and Bogi signed would be perfect to pair up with someone else, to trade for a greater player.  But if that player isn't available, the Hawks are stuck with these two for the forseeable future . . . unless they sell them off to gain draft picks.

And then there's the elephant in the room . . .

 

 

It's absolutely unacceptable for Dre to have the 14th highest PER on the team.  We flat out need more activity from him.  When you look at his VORP ( Value Over Replacement Player ), it's even worse.  He's dead last on the team.  Even behind the G-Leaguers.

 

 

It's unacceptable. 

Yes, he's a decent defender.  But that defense has sporadic impact on games.  Yes, his offense is decent, but he does nothing exceptional on the offensive end, outside of make midrange jumpers off the dribble.

It's everything else that he doesn't do to help the team, that actually hurts us.

So how much worse would be without Dre on the team, especially if we have Saddiq and AJ on the squad who can absorb his minutes?

 

If the Hawks brass do not believe that Dre can take that next jump, maybe he's the guy who should go first in a trade.  Sell Dre while his value isn't completely tarnished.

 

The usual shit on Hunter post from NC. It's hilarious because his ass always finds a way to praise JJ who can't shoot, play the 3 unless Bey is on the court and we know he can only do that against backups. Against players like Tatum, he was super ass. 

Hunter is way better than you continue to say he is. You underestimate how hard being a big wing is. Your ass will learn as Kevin haters did that his value is massive. The problem is your boy at the PG spot. Always has been. Always will be. A max player is suppose to be an asset. Not a liability you don't know if he's gonna be good or bad even if the raw stats look good without context.

Why is Tatum going off for 50, why is Bron going off for 50, why is Bridges going off got 50? Trade  Hunter and watch the perimeter defense go to flames

Edited June 25, 2023 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

All of Trae's wings will be on different teams and succeeding, whereas, next its Murray, then JJ, then AJ, then Bufkin, lol. When will it end!

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, bleachkit said:

One of the drawbacks of being a "player's organization" is we have to overpay or at least slightly overpay guys to keep that rep. But giving everyone 20+ per is coming back to bite us. 

There is not one team in the NBA saying Hunter, Bogi, Capela are overpaid. JC, hell yeah but thats Trae's fault threatening shit. If we didn't give the contract to Dre or Capela, somebody else would. Even Kevin contract was questioned by some and that was a good contract in my eyes. The issue is, our max player ain't what he's suppose to be. If he was, we wouldn't be trying to trade every damn year. 

[NBASupes]

OO is literally going to be the Hawk not sacrificed for Saint Traeus

[NBASupes]

Every year, there is a new sacrifice 

2021: Kevin

2022: Travis and Nate

2023: Could be Dre, Bogi, Clint, or JC

2024: JJ and Dejounte 

2025: AJ

2026: Saintus demands a trade that nobody in the NBA wants to pay .2 cent on a dollar for. Landry and Kyle are also sacrificed

 

 

[kg01]

"All" the wings?  Name 1 wing thriving elsewhere.  Just 1.  I'll wait..... 

[terrell]

53 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

All of Trae's wings will be on different teams and succeeding, whereas, next its Murray, then JJ, then AJ, then Bufkin, lol. When will it end!

[terrell]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

"All" the wings?  Name 1 wing thriving elsewhere.  Just 1.  I'll wait..... 

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, terrell said:

Even Cam's analytics was much better in NY than Atlanta. Every wing that left Trae has been better elsewhere. 

Whereas, who's left Horford that's gotten better elsewhere? Nobody! Before you say Philly, it was only Embiid who got worse. That's it! Just Embiid who can't get out of the 2nd round. 

Edited June 26, 2023 by NBASupes

[marco102]

Don't engage and it will stop.

[NBASupes]

11 minutes ago, kg01 said:

"All" the wings?  Name 1 wing thriving elsewhere.  Just 1.  I'll wait..... 

All of them are better on their new team than they were in Atlanta. ALL OF THEM. 

[bleachkit]

I have my doubts about Trae but I'm not going to put all our troubles at his feet. It's tough for a 6 ft point guard to be your #1. It just is.

[JeffS17]

10 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Even Cam's analytics was much better in NY than Atlanta. Every wing that left Trae has been better elsewhere. 

Whereas, who's left Horford that's gotten better elsewhere? Nobody! Before you say Philly, it was only Embiid who got worse. That's it! Just Embiid who can't get out of the 2nd round. 

I really don’t think this is the hill you want to die on

[NBASupes]

15 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I really don’t think this is the hill you want to die on

I've been on this hill for awhile. We can't get trading good players or critical players and thinking it will just naturally get better. It won't. Why is it that no one fits Trae? For all that want to say Clint and JC, both are about to be out of the door. Clint had better numbers with Harden anyway. 

[NBASupes]

Before NC comes in here stanning for Trae and saying, in the 2nd half, our 2nd unit plus Trae was much better and the best in the league, f*** that! That shit doesn't matter because it's against backups. When we brought those same MFers in against Boston who wasn't playing backups like that in the playoffs, all of them looked like shit with Trae. Easy to look good against backups when your got a good fit but good fit ain't enough against starters, you gotta have a scheme and you gotta dominate stars and studs with it. 

Our starters are the ones that took a turn for the worse when Nate was fired. Why? Because we went from spamming to a scheme that didn't fit our current players on the roster who were starting. 

Edited June 26, 2023 by NBASupes

[AUhawksfan]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I've been on this hill for awhile. We can't get trading good players or critical players and thinking it will just naturally get better. It won't. Why is it that no one fits Trae? For all that want to say Clint and JC, both are about to be out of the door. Clint had better numbers with Harden anyway. 

If the goal of playing in the NBA is to win a ‘chip, what has Horford done?  Winning or not, if you can’t reach the ultimate prize what are you really worth?

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, AUhawksfan said:

If the goal of playing in the NBA is to win a ‘chip, what has Horford done?  Winning or not, if you can’t reach the ultimate prize what are you really worth?

He's been to the finals. He's lead multiple teams to the ECF. He's the most winningest Hawk of all time. The years Boston traded him, they went to shit for two years and of course, they are legit the minute Al walks back into that lottery room. He had OKC with a rebuilding squad in the playoff race till they benched him and SGA to tank. I don't know what the f*** else you want. Trae ass is constantly in the play-in game with our most talented teams ever but but, let's trade someone else so they can another sleeper team look like a very good team like Kevin did with the Kings. 

[bleachkit]

8 minutes ago, AUhawksfan said:

If the goal of playing in the NBA is to win a ‘chip, what has Horford done?  Winning or not, if you can’t reach the ultimate prize what are you really worth?

Luck and being in the right situation is a also big part of that. Denver, for example, had the right pieces, but injury issues had held them back previously. 

[NBASupes]

Trae is the problem. The day he wakes the f*** up and realizing it, all of a sudden everyone else ain't the problem. All of a sudden, Murray fits. Dre fits. Clint doesn't get in the way. OO doesn't get shut out when he was just cooking because Trae made two threes in a row so now he's gonna be on heat check mode for the rest of the game but but, it's good when Trae is aggressive and shoots a million shots a game, even when most of the shots are shit with poor time managing.