Discussion about Hunter and Trae (split off from insider thread)

[Sothron]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He has limited handles? Yep

He has limited moves outside of straight line drives? Yep

He definitely has defensive impact especially on the wing

He has limited rebounding for a wing? Yep

He's decent on offense to me most of the time, that's your opinion of the corpse's shit. 

Shit, you forgot to mention he's a poor passer with limited vision. 

And yes, it's still Trae's fault. It's been Trae's fault and unless he changes, it will CONTINUE to be Trae's fault. 

Why? 

Shit decision-making skills while dominating time of possession on the ball and dribbling the air out of the ball. 

Horrendous shot selection - Josh Smith levels of shitty

Horrible time managing skills, for someone who loves Steve Nash, I don't think he watched any Nash outside of highlights because Nash's best trait was his time management with the ball. That's the one area where he shits on the Point Gawd, CP3. Nash had a perfect feel for when to pass, shoot, execute the play, create magic, etc. He just had the best feel for the game. Joker is close but he's not Nash at that. Instead, Trae is just like Marbury. Just doing shit for stats and if it would give him a stat. He doesn't do shit to win, he does shit to produce on paper. It's f***ing idiotic. 

Movement off the ball is asstastic. I think it was you that tried to say, he just need another handler. We got Murray, it's more disastrous than even I thought it would be. 

He's a streaky-ass shooter which to be fair, most of our guys are including Dre. 

He is constantly is trying to get bailed out by refs doing idiotic bogus shit that just irks players, coaches, and fanbases. 

Defensively, he's the WOAT. nothing much more needs to be said than that. 

And he's massively overpaid. 

So yes, he's the f***ing problem. 

You realize Trae is coming off his best defensive effort in his life just this past season? I don't know why the insider thread is now the "hate on Trae and love on Hunter" thread. This is just bizarre af.

Trae has nothing to do with Hunter having no skills at all outside of wing defense (while never, ever producing turnovers) and being a league average three point shooter. That's on Hunter. Trae has to spoon feed him just to get Hunter involved on offense at any level. 

Trae's defense historically has been horribad but last season he improved a great deal. His defensive metrics show it. 

Hunter has had no progression since his rookie season. And he was an OLD rookie when he came in so what we see now is peak Hunter. It is like Glen Willis and Brad say on their separate podcasts: Hunter is what he is. There's no hope for some big spike in growth for him. 

This entire digression about Hunter and Trae should be made its own topic. It has nothing to do with insider information so anyone looking at this expecting a trade or at least heavy rumors of it are going to be really disappointed.

[NBASupes]

We got MFers all over this roster who can really f***ing play yet we finishing 42-42. Come on man. 

Capela/OO

JC/Bey/JJ

Dre

Murray/Bogi

This squad is STACKED. You replace Tatum with Trae, we probably winning it all. 

[terrell]

26 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Cam improved in NY. Did he live up to his potential, no and maybe he's not capable. Atlanta realized it and bailed and NY did too. Kevin is the singular reason Sacarmento is what they are currently. Thanks, Atlanta! 

It's going to continue. It's a lot easier to play in a system that's a system. Where the ball moves. Where players move. Where defensively, you aren't carrying dead f***ing weight. I hate when people talk shit with the idea of benefitting the guy who's the problem in the first place. 

 

Kevin is what?

 

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, Sothron said:

You realize Trae is coming off his best defensive effort in his life just this past season? I don't know why the insider thread is now the "hate on Trae and love on Hunter" thread. This is just bizarre af.

Trae has nothing to do with Hunter having no skills at all outside of wing defense (while never, ever producing turnovers) and being a league average three point shooter. That's on Hunter. Trae has to spoon feed him just to get Hunter involved on offense at any level. 

Trae's defense historically has been horribad but last season he improved a great deal. His defensive metrics show it. 

Hunter has had no progression since his rookie season. And he was an OLD rookie when he came in so what we see now is peak Hunter. It is like Glen Willis and Brad say on their separate podcasts: Hunter is what he is. There's no hope for some big spike in growth for him. 

This entire digression about Hunter and Trae should be made its own topic. It has nothing to do with insider information so anyone looking at this expecting a trade or at least heavy rumors of it are going to be really disappointed.

His best defensive effort is being protected by Murray and Dre and of course, you don't notice it because you are busy protecting Trae but once Dre is gone and it's just Murray and Trae, you gonna see their asses get lit up on a nightly basis. Of course, you will blame Murray, he will be sacrificed, and he will go to the next team and get all defense again. Then you got AJ who's next with Trae will get trained on a nightly basis on defense. Then, of course, you will blame Quin and AJ who will get sacrificed next for Saint Traeus. 

Trae's defense isn't just historically bad, he is the worst there ever was for anyone who plays starter minutes. You can sell me on guys like Kendall Marshall and Jimmer being worse but they can't get on the floor long enough for it to even count whereas Trae does. We have a vastly large sample size. 

That's just not true. Hunter has progressed, especially defensively. You just aren't paying attention which is normal on this site when talking defense. Offensively, he hasn't maintained his progress consistently but I believe he will the minute he leaves Atlanta. So Kris Willis and Brad Rowland are now Basketball gawds? LMAO! Shit, they are no different than you or I. They are just regular fans. They aren't within the organization making millions to do this shit. 

Probably. I agree with you on that one. This topic should be separate. 

 

[bleachkit]

Hopefully Quin can get Trae to play winning basketball. Last season, especially the first half of the year, was absolutely brutal for Trae, and the board was in collective denial about it. 

[Diesel]

10 minutes ago, Sothron said:

So Hunter has no handles, no moves, has no defensive impact other than man defense on the wing, has no rebounding on either end, looks like a corpse half the time on offense...and that's Trae's fault. All of it.

Ok then.

You honestly think if Hunter was traded to another team, any other team, he would just magically have all the missing things I just listed from his game? Serious question. not taking a shot.

Well, 

if you believe that Horford made Millsap, Teague and Korver allstars...

Then shouldn't you believe that it's Trae's fault that Hunter makes absolutely no impact on either end of the court and then is out for at least 14 games per season?

12 minutes ago, Sothron said:

So Hunter has no handles, no moves, has no defensive impact other than man defense on the wing, has no rebounding on either end, looks like a corpse half the time on offense...and that's Trae's fault. All of it.

Ok then.

You honestly think if Hunter was traded to another team, any other team, he would just magically have all the missing things I just listed from his game? Serious question. not taking a shot.

Trae and Hunter...

10 minutes ago, Sothron said:

So Hunter has no handles, no moves, has no defensive impact other than man defense on the wing, has no rebounding on either end, looks like a corpse half the time on offense...and that's Trae's fault. All of it.

Ok then.

You honestly think if Hunter was traded to another team, any other team, he would just magically have all the missing things I just listed from his game? Serious question. not taking a shot.

Well, 

if you believe that Horford made Millsap, Teague and Korver allstars...

Then shouldn't you believe that it's Trae's fault that Hunter makes absolutely no impact on either end of the court and then is out for at least 14 games per season?

12 minutes ago, Sothron said:

So Hunter has no handles, no moves, has no defensive impact other than man defense on the wing, has no rebounding on either end, looks like a corpse half the time on offense...and that's Trae's fault. All of it.

Ok then.

You honestly think if Hunter was traded to another team, any other team, he would just magically have all the missing things I just listed from his game? Serious question. not taking a shot.

Trae and Hunter...

10 minutes ago, Sothron said:

So Hunter has no handles, no moves, has no defensive impact other than man defense on the wing, has no rebounding on either end, looks like a corpse half the time on offense...and that's Trae's fault. All of it.

Ok then.

You honestly think if Hunter was traded to another team, any other team, he would just magically have all the missing things I just listed from his game? Serious question. not taking a shot.

Well, 

if you believe that Horford made Millsap, Teague and Korver allstars...

Then shouldn't you believe that it's Trae's fault that Hunter makes absolutely no impact on either end of the court and then is out for at least 14 games per season?

12 minutes ago, Sothron said:

So Hunter has no handles, no moves, has no defensive impact other than man defense on the wing, has no rebounding on either end, looks like a corpse half the time on offense...and that's Trae's fault. All of it.

Ok then.

You honestly think if Hunter was traded to another team, any other team, he would just magically have all the missing things I just listed from his game? Serious question. not taking a shot.

Trae and Hunter...

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Hopefully Quin can get Trae to play winning basketball. Last season, especially the first half of the year, was absolutely brutal for Trae, and the board was in collective denial about it. 

Let's just clarify it to be exact

We need Quin to get Trae to understand the value of running an offense. 

We also need Trae to move without the basketball and constantly move even if you aren't going anywhere and being glued, you are forcing the defense to react and it opens space for others. Just like space is important to you Trae, it's value to others as well. 

Quin needs to show Trae the value of good decision-making skills and time management skills within possessions and get Trae to value every single f***ing possession. I partly blame Nate for this shit and his '90s style where they look at the totality instead of each possession. In this area, Jalen Brunson and Haliburton are absolutely kicking his f***ing ass at. Trae may be 10x more talented and skilled but what good does it make if you are a PG and as reliable with the rock as Josh Smith? 

Defensively, Trae is hopeless. Just get him to be aware and see shit, call out shit and communicate and fight screens and shit or just protect him and realize, this defense will always be bad with Trae. It is what it is. 

If Trae just massively improved his communication on defense, he would be 10x more valuable to everyone around him even if he sucks on D. CP3 is not good on D anymore but he's still valuable because he can see shit and communicate with the best of em on D. 

[Diesel]

my bad

[bird_dirt]

Someone bump @Diesel  his record player is skipping. 

[Sothron]

Seriously @AHF can we remove all this Hunter/Trae talk into another thread? I don't want Supes to think I'm piling on or anything. it is valid discussion. Trae's bad defense has a trickle down (more like a river down?? effect on the rest of the team. I've been saying that since his rookie season. I also saw Trae finally play some real defense and it wasn't being help supported it was Trae actually fighting over screens, sticking to his man and getting steals and tips in the passing lanes. None of that was from Hunter, DJM or anyone else.

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Seriously @AHF can we remove all this Hunter/Trae talk into another thread? I don't want Supes to think I'm piling on or anything. it is valid discussion. Trae's bad defense has a trickle down (more like a river down?? effect on the rest of the team. I've been saying that since his rookie season. I also saw Trae finally play some real defense and it wasn't being help supported it was Trae actually fighting over screens, sticking to his man and getting steals and tips in the passing lanes. None of that was from Hunter, DJM or anyone else.

I keep saying this but I don't think ya'll know what you seeing on defense. I wish I could bring Brad Stevens and Joe M to this site and just breakdown film of how they gameplanned to attack the integrity of our defense through Trae. But what about the deflections, steals, the times he did fight over screens? It's like ya'll only looking for when he does good and just ignoring or flat-out nothing paying attention to 95% of the time we are on defense.  

Make it make sense. @benhillboy, make it make sense. I am confused. Did we watch the same games as the others on here? 

[hylndr11]

Calm down guys, no insider on insider crime 

[benhillboy]

34 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Make it make sense. @benhillboy, make it make sense. I am confused. Did we watch the same games as the others on here? 

After 5 seasons I don’t have anything else to add when analyzing the kid, my rant days are over.  I am very interested to see what his Basketball Reference similarity scores are gonna be in August though, it’s gonna be “interesting.”  

His supporters are gonna love him regardless, nothing wrong with that. Even more so when you dig in because they legit hate you lol.  A lot of them hate me too, so I try not to trigger.  My eye and stat test is absolutely my own, I wouldn’t expect anyone else to align with it nor would I knock them when they ridicule it. 

I’ll probably be watching more Thunder games than Hawks next season, let alone heat and Warriors games now the latter has banished Poole to the nether realm where he should’ve been all along.  I will keep tabs on the bench mob though, loved them down the stretch last season.  I literally couldn’t care less about the starting unit.

Edited June 26, 2023 by benhillboy

[kg01]

9 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

After 5 seasons I don’t have anything else to add when analyzing the kid, my rant days are over.  I am very interested to see what his Basketball Reference similarity scores are gonna be in August though, it’s gonna be “interesting.”  

His supporters are gonna love him regardless, nothing wrong with that. Even more so when you dig in because they legit hate you lol.  A lot of them hate me too, so I try not to trigger.  My eye and stat test is absolutely my own, I wouldn’t expect anyone else to align with it nor would I knock them when they ridicule it. 

I’ll probably be watching more Thunder games than Hawks next season, let alone heat and Warriors games now the latter has banished Poole to the nether realm where he should’ve been all along.  I will keep tabs on the bench mob though, loved them down the stretch last season.  I literally couldn’t care less about the starting unit.

Bye-ee.... 

[kg01]

33 minutes ago, hylndr11 said:

Calm down guys, no insider on insider crime 

Nah, that's the best kind of crime.

But yeah, I'd like to illustrate that an insider has wrecked this newly minted thread way more than folks claimed others did.  And he's not stopping, btw.

I concur with saffron.  Split this nonsense out.  I'm resisting the urge to execute my citizen-mod powers here.  Oh, yall didnt know theres such a thing as citizens arrest here? 

[Sothron]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

I keep saying this but I don't think ya'll know what you seeing on defense. I wish I could bring Brad Stevens and Joe M to this site and just breakdown film of how they gameplanned to attack the integrity of our defense through Trae. But what about the deflections, steals, the times he did fight over screens? It's like ya'll only looking for when he does good and just ignoring or flat-out nothing paying attention to 95% of the time we are on defense.  

Make it make sense. @benhillboy, make it make sense. I am confused. Did we watch the same games as the others on here? 

I am a three year college starter at point guard with two all conferences. My dad coaches basketball for about 35 years in AAU and rec leagues. With respect there's no one that can talk down to me about the only sport I love in my heart that it ingrained in my soul. 

I have criticized Trae Young's defense since before we drafted him. I went, to pardon the saying, ape poopy crazy after we traded Luka to get him because I knew how historically bad Trae's defense was. And yes, his first two NBA years were nightmares. It wasn't until this past season that I finally had reason to hope for Trae's defense. 

He DID get better. I don't know why you can't see it. It was literally tangible from about mid December to the end of the season including the playoffs. I was the one talking about how important CC, JC and Hunter were to our defense because Trae was a literal black hole on defense the likes of which I've never seen on a NBA court before.

Correction: Jimmer was just as awful but he's not the offensive dynamo that Trae is. But you mentioned him earlier and we can all agree NBA busts aren't good comparisons to All NBA talent. 

I'm not sure where all of this coming from. I've said for YEARS that as long as Trae as here we have to address the defense of every single player to make up for him. This is not new news or some kind of insight only a handful of basketball savants can see. We all know it. I don't overlook it. Trust me. I hate his shot selection. Every time he pulls up for a 28-32 foot three pointer I want to reach out and put hands on him because in almost every case it is terrible, terrible shot selection.

But all that being said...what does Hunter have to do with any of that? Hunter has ZERO offensive game outside of bullying smaller wings to the basket which he should do WAY more often or his C&S which is NBA starter average. I've said multiple times Hunter is a classic 3&D player and you always scoff at that despite overwhelming eye test and data that support it.

 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

When bozo decided to take his shot at Dre, he basically screamed he wanted war with me. That glass house mfer got some f***ing nerves. 

 

As the great Master P said on Mia X's album

 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 hours ago, Sothron said:

You realize Trae is coming off his best defensive effort in his life just this past season? I don't know why the insider thread is now the "hate on Trae and love on Hunter" thread. This is just bizarre af.

Trae has nothing to do with Hunter having no skills at all outside of wing defense (while never, ever producing turnovers) and being a league average three point shooter. That's on Hunter. Trae has to spoon feed him just to get Hunter involved on offense at any level. 

Trae's defense historically has been horribad but last season he improved a great deal. His defensive metrics show it. 

Hunter has had no progression since his rookie season. And he was an OLD rookie when he came in so what we see now is peak Hunter. It is like Glen Willis and Brad say on their separate podcasts: Hunter is what he is. There's no hope for some big spike in growth for him. 

This entire digression about Hunter and Trae should be made its own topic. It has nothing to do with insider information so anyone looking at this expecting a trade or at least heavy rumors of it are going to be really disappointed.

 

It's my fault.  I shouldn't have blasted on Hunter in an insider thread.  I shoud've started a separate thread with my offseason thoughts, as you said.

I 100% stand by what I said though, and have much more ammo in the clip to prove my points.  But I won't drag it out in this thread.

I'll just hope that Indiana gives us a deal we can worth with.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

Trae has his flaws like any player but he is also heads and shoulders our most talented and consistent high end performer. He’s one of the few players in the league who raises the offensive floor of the entire team. 
That is not debatable and any poster willing to die on that bill loses a lot of credibility in a basketball discussion. 

[thecampster]

9 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Oh please....staaaaap..you are the only one going off the rails. NC stated his case, just state yours without the added histrionics.

Histrionics.....is that a winner for $5 word of the day or a dollar in the swear jar....not sure but either way, well done!