John Collins Traded - Fare thee well!

[AUhawksfan]

I realize a lot of people don't like this trade, but Schlenk deserves blame on this one.  He didn't sell Collins when he was at his peak and this forced Landry's hand at this point.  I though Schlenk was great at assessing talent but it seems obvious to me that he was losing the foresight on how to keep a balanced roster and not force contract negotiations that ended up handicapping us.

I don't hate the trade at this point in time with Collins' value so low because it got us in a good financial place but as many have said, it depends on what we do with it now.  Landry didn't have any other options and personally I'm happy that John won't have that weight on his shoulders anymore, he deserved to move on after being the longest tenured rumor mill fodder I can recall.  I'd expect to see his play improve from that weight removed in Utah.

I feel hopeful Landry will stay active but remains to be seen of course.  I'd give it a solid 'C' for the move.  Not great but about all we can expect given the circumstances - I'd give Schlenk an 'F' though on his previous handling and non-action with Collins when the timing was best.

[Watchman]

3 minutes ago, AUhawksfan said:

I realize a lot of people don't like this trade, but Schlenk deserves blame on this one.  He didn't sell Collins when he was at his peak and this forced Landry's hand at this point.  I though Schlenk was great at assessing talent but it seems obvious to me that he was losing the foresight on how to keep a balanced roster and not force contract negotiations that ended up handicapping us.

I don't hate the trade at this point in time with Collins' value so low because it got us in a good financial place but as many have said, it depends on what we do with it now.  Landry didn't have any other options and personally I'm happy that John won't have that weight on his shoulders anymore, he deserved to move on after being the longest tenured rumor mill fodder I can recall.  I'd expect to see his play improve from that weight removed in Utah.

I feel hopeful Landry will stay active but remains to be seen of course.  I'd give it a solid 'C' for the move.  Not great but about all we can expect given the circumstances - I'd give Schlenk an 'F' though on his previous handling and non-action with Collins when the timing was best.

If the best he can do is the "other" Bogdanovic, I'd prefer he not be active any more.  We don't need any more streak shooting, non defense-playing, non-rebounding SFs.  We have enough of those already.

[JayBirdHawk]

34 minutes ago, Watchman said:

Help request from a "casual."

I'm trying to figure out what the benefit of JC's trade exemption (exception?) is.  Good teams will only want to dump overpaid  players.  Desperate teams might give away a good player, but in all likelihood they are overpaid also.  Either scenario puts us in the same boat that we were in.  Can the trade exemption (or exception) be divided among multiple mid range salary players?  Otherwise, I fail to see what all the excitement is about, but what can I say?  After all, I'm only a casual.

Lol...OK casual.

The TPE can be split into multiple players and used at different times throughout the entire year it is valid.

When we traded Huerter we had a $6 mil TPE. We used a portion to sign one or two vet FAs in the offseason, the remainder we used to acquire Bey at the deadline.

It's more like we split it vs using it on one $25 mil player that's actually worth it.

[bleachkit]

16 minutes ago, AUhawksfan said:

I realize a lot of people don't like this trade, but Schlenk deserves blame on this one.  He didn't sell Collins when he was at his peak and this forced Landry's hand at this point.  I though Schlenk was great at assessing talent but it seems obvious to me that he was losing the foresight on how to keep a balanced roster and not force contract negotiations that ended up handicapping us.

I don't hate the trade at this point in time with Collins' value so low because it got us in a good financial place but as many have said, it depends on what we do with it now.  Landry didn't have any other options and personally I'm happy that John won't have that weight on his shoulders anymore, he deserved to move on after being the longest tenured rumor mill fodder I can recall.  I'd expect to see his play improve from that weight removed in Utah.

I feel hopeful Landry will stay active but remains to be seen of course.  I'd give it a solid 'C' for the move.  Not great but about all we can expect given the circumstances - I'd give Schlenk an 'F' though on his previous handling and non-action with Collins when the timing was best.

It's been widely reported that Schlenk's attempts to trade JC were nixed by ownership. The man wasn't given a chance to do his job.

[Watchman]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

Lol...OK casual.

The TPE can be split into multiple players and used at different times throughout the entire year it is valid.

When we traded Huerter we had a $6 mil TPE. We used a portion to sign one or two vet FAs in the offseason, the remainder we used to acquire Bey at the deadline.

It's more like we split it vs using it on one $25 mil player that's actually worth it.

Why would another team give us "a $25 mil player that's actually worth it" for a trade exception?  That sounds like wishful thinking to me.  To me, it seems that only desperate, rebuilding teams would do this kind of trade.

[JayBirdHawk]

53 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

With the Golden State Warriors and Los Angeles Clippers among the teams contributing to historically high tax redistribution for the non-taxpaying teams this season — and most likely next season as well — the Hawks’ owners stand to make upwards of $30 million each season by finishing below the luxury tax threshold once the league’s financials are finalized.

I made this point with the Huerter trade last season. Paying $5 - $7 million in tax is not so much the issue....it's what Ressler will lose out on coming from the other teams that are paying the tax. Losing out on $30 mil as his share is a big number.

[Peoriabird]

18 minutes ago, AUhawksfan said:

I realize a lot of people don't like this trade, but Schlenk deserves blame on this one.  He didn't sell Collins when he was at his peak and this forced Landry's hand at this point.  I though Schlenk was great at assessing talent but it seems obvious to me that he was losing the foresight on how to keep a balanced roster and not force contract negotiations that ended up handicapping us.

I don't hate the trade at this point in time with Collins' value so low because it got us in a good financial place but as many have said, it depends on what we do with it now.  Landry didn't have any other options and personally I'm happy that John won't have that weight on his shoulders anymore, he deserved to move on after being the longest tenured rumor mill fodder I can recall.  I'd expect to see his play improve from that weight removed in Utah.

I feel hopeful Landry will stay active but remains to be seen of course.  I'd give it a solid 'C' for the move.  Not great but about all we can expect given the circumstances - I'd give Schlenk an 'F' though on his previous handling and non-action with Collins when the timing was best.

You still think it was about John's value?  This was a salary dumb plain and simple.  I know all went to bed last night dreaming of Hawks bring all of these high salaried guy in to replace John like Siakam or Kat...Wake up folks!!! because 1st of all we would be right where we started...in cap hell and a mediocre team and secondly, Russler is a business man not a fan period.

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, Watchman said:

Why would another team give us "a $25 mil player that's actually worth it" for a trade exception?  That sounds like wishful thinking to me.  To me, it seems that only desperate, rebuilding teams would do this kind of trade.

Exactly. So if I hear one more time we have the largest TPE.....stop. It's only a thing if we use it to improve the team over the year that it's valid.

We cannot use it outright to sign a FA, but it can be used in a SnT for a FA, but the FAs team may want an asset to execute the SnT.

 

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Watchman said:

Help request from a "casual."

I'm trying to figure out what the benefit of JC's trade exemption (exception?) is.  Good teams will only want to dump overpaid  players.  Desperate teams might give away a good player, but in all likelihood they are overpaid also.  Either scenario puts us in the same boat that we were in.  Can the trade exemption (or exception) be divided among multiple mid range salary players?  Otherwise, I fail to see what all the excitement is about, but what can I say?  After all, I'm only a casual.

It is really useful if we want to play "matchmaker for a price" in helping other people get deals done.  If salaries don't match in a deal, we can get either a player we want that helps the deal happen or we can get a pick to take someone, etc.  If a team wants to unload a player to reduce their roster or create space, etc. we can take that player as if we were under the cap.  If you remember back in Hawks history, that is basically how we got Kyle Korver.  They wanted to dump his salary and we got him for a 2nd round pick.  If someone is in a similar situation, we can use that space in those types of deals.  

So I do think there is real value to it but we have to find things that actually work in order to realize that value.  If you think John Collins had value as a player, then this actually demonstrates the value of the TPE because we could take a similarly valuable player the same way (i.e., for basically nothing) due to the benefit we bring to someone else's payroll.

That said, I fully expect we want to stay under the tax line so I am expecting the TPE to be used opportunistically in a way that keeps us under the line so I would kind of be shocked to see us go trade for someone's $23M player.

[terrell]

59 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

It's been widely reported that Schlenk's attempts to trade JC were nixed by ownership. The man wasn't given a chance to do his job.

He's also the one that overpaid him...

Or was that Trae? lol

[givemesome1ce1]

I love John Collins man. I will miss the the Trae to JC connection lobs. Best PnR duo in the league is gone. His Embiid dunk will be one of the most iconic moments in recent memory.

 

With that being said, let’s look at why we are here. It’s clear that despite John Collins being a steal at pick #19 in the 2017 draft, the front office a few years later clearly didn’t view him as the ideal power forward for this team. So they tried to trade him. The front office had several opportunities to trade him for a worse starter and a first round pick, but they never did because the front office thought they could get big fish for John even though it wasn’t the case. Schlenk paid him that $125M because he was afraid of letting a then valuable asset though. Schlenk was the only person negotiating with JC, and Schlenk has never been known as a great negotiator. He folded and gave JC as close to the max as he could.
 

Because of roster construction, untimely injuries, and the contract JC’s value just became worse and worse and it’s why his value has basically become a salary dump today. 
 

It’s honestly really shameful how the whole JC saga has been handled. If we don’t win a championship with Trae, We will be looking at these early years of disfunction as to why. Thank god we have the young talent we have now. We have a chance to correct the mistakes of the first regime.

Edited June 27, 2023 by givemesome1ce1

[terrell]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

You still think it was about John's value?  This was a salary dumb plain and simple.  I know all went to bed last night dreaming of Hawks bring all of these high salaried guy in to replace John like Siakam or Kat...Wake up folks!!! because 1st of all we would be right where we started...in cap hell and a mediocre team and secondly, Russler is a business man not a fan period.

NOBODY went to bed thinking that.. lol

 Trading JC was essential, not just financially, but for a more mobile front court that can move the ball and spread the floor in attack and for the chances of defending differently.

Crazy yall want Quin to keep players he doesnt believe fits what he wants.. smh

Yall should be happy for JC.. There isnt any Siakams, Randles, or Giannis' out West...

Im just thankful we didnt have to attatch any assets, or take back salary to move him...

Edited June 27, 2023 by terrell

[Atlantaholic]

12 hours ago, Sothron said:

Yes. One source said Lauri and one FRP, another said Lauri and two FRP. This was BEFORE last season when the general feeling was Lauri was a bad contract and needed sweeteners to take it off the Jazz hands.

I will go on record as saying I was one of the people who didn't want to take Lauri for Collins. I wasn't the only one at the time, let's see if anyone else is humble enough to admit it lol.

[hylndr11]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I made this point with the Huerter trade last season. Paying $5 - $7 million in tax is not so much the issue....it's what Ressler will lose out on coming from the other teams that are paying the tax. Losing out on $30 mil as his share is a big number.

To is it is, shouldn't be to owners especially American sports franchise primary. They typically are multi billionaires , tony is worth 7

 

I think it is more about once u go in and are committed for several years u are gonna get hit with that mulit year penalty and all that, he wants to make sure hes got a contender but even so , there's really not enough good players to just do this it's super hard

Edited June 27, 2023 by hylndr11

[Atlantaholic]

12 hours ago, Packfill said:

The answer to that question, however, is muddied by the draft capital the team gave up to acquire him.  I guess doubling down on a bad investment would be worse than cutting ties and taking the hit though.

After the Collins deal can the Hawks even resign Bay and OO (forget about Murray for the moment) and stay under the tax?  Those two are going to get a combined $40m+ a year I think.

I feel Bey is a stopgap type of player for us. I don't think we are gonna break the bank to keep him unless you know he really balls out next year, which I don't think will be the case.

[Watchman]

17 minutes ago, terrell said:

NOBODY went to bed thinking that.. lol

 Trading JC was essential, not just financially, but for a more mobile front court that can move the ball and spread the floor in attack and for the chances of defending differently.

Crazy yall want Quin to keep players he doesnt believe fits what he wants.. smh

Yall should be happy for JC.. There isnt any Siakams, Randles, or Giannis' out West...

Im just thankful we didnt have to attatch any assets, or take back salary to move him...

I look forward to watching JJ shut down Siakam, Randle and Giannis.  

[Packfill]

11 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

I feel Bey is a stopgap type of player for us. I don't think we are gonna break the bank to keep him unless you know he really balls out next year, which I don't think will be the case.

I generally agree, but still think someone will give him at least $15m a year and losing him for nothing doesn't help fill out the roster (which will be more challenging going forward due to the limited number of picks the team has over the next few years).

[bleachkit]

19 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

I will go on record as saying I was one of the people who didn't want to take Lauri for Collins. I wasn't the only one at the time, let's see if anyone else is humble enough to admit it lol.

Everyone was like "His defense sucks." No one wanted that deal at the time. 

[Peoriabird]

11 minutes ago, terrell said:

NOBODY went to bed thinking that.. lol

 

There were a few

 I’m fine using Gay, the 2nd, and the trade exception in another deal. lol

With a center like KAT or Ayton, I would love that.

If we get Ayton or KAT then I take back everything bad I said about this deal.

I am trying to guess next move if there is any. Could be possible we go after Cam Johnson or Jeramy Grant? I think Johnson would be an awesome addition but I don’t think we can get him, Grant I don’t like his fit with our team.

[JeffS17]

11 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I’m fine using Gay, the 2nd, and the trade exception in another deal. lol

With a center like KAT or Ayton, I would love that.

If we get Ayton or KAT then I take back everything bad I said about this deal.

You want to leverage our 1/5th of a Saddiq Bey to get KAT/Ayton?