It's time for a grown man talk about Siakim....

[kg01]

18 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

And let's stop this Christian Wood talk please.  Christian Wood is a true locker room cancer.

He didn't stick in Minnesota.  He was a bad influence on a young Houston squad.  And now even Dallas hasn't secured him to some sort of deal yet.

Do you know that Christian Wood is on his 7th NBA team in 8 years?  I bet none of you knew this.  That dude has been passed around more than a blunt at a house party.

Yes, he is a very talented NBA player.  No, none of his teammates go to bat for him, because he's an extremely selfish player.  Because of that, he ends up going to the bench instead of sticking as the starter.

As productive as he was in Dallas, even they sent him to the bench later in the year because his style of play wasn't helping them win games.

 

But don't take my word for it.

https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2023/3/2/23621252/the-christian-wood-situation-keeps-getting-messier

Bro, you sound like me 3-4 teams ago on Wood. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

17 minutes ago, Diesel said:

 

I hear the sound of Knees Jerking...

Very Babcockish. 

I don't think Siakam is as good as what his salary and what we will give away suggest.   He may not be as good as JC when it's all said and done.   High USAGE... LOW TS%...   So.. all those stats that look good and got him allstar.. it's because he took more than 35% of his team's shots.   He's NOT KD...   Right now, KAT seems to be a better offensive prospect.   We will definitely have FIT issues with Siakam and the real reason you want to make this move to over pay for his rental is because you're afraid that Trae may leave in 2026??

That scares me too, but I have faith in the team that we have now.   AJ is going to be a Star.   JJ is going to be a 2nd tier star.   OO is going to be a 2nd tier star.   Everybody can see this but Hawks fans.   This is what Toronto wants.. they want to deplete us of our future ...  They want to steal it..  And while we're sitting around looking like BKLN with Harden, KD and Kyrie... i.e.  Big salaries... no chemistry.   They will have Grady d*ck, AJ, OO, JJ and they will be toasting the league with the players that we didn't have enough faith in...

 

You say we have 40 years of evidence.   Tell me.. when have we had the type of young talent that we have now (in those 40 years)??

You say Travis was trying to build a new Golden State?  Ok.. What if he was successful in some respects?   What was the one thing that GS did better than anybody else?  They didn't give up on their core.  They believed in Steph, Klay and Draymond.   On paper, only Steph was a superstar.... but Steph needed those others to win the chip.    What if Travis gave us the right players to win a chip.. it just requires us not giving up on them?

Here's the truth...

If we jump into Siakam and he doesn't get us to the Chip.. we have relived Danny Manning all over again.   Or maybe we have relived Moses Malone all over again.   And we will be forced to overpay him to be a little better than Average.

 

There is no way that AJ - JJ - OO is a better trio from a potential standpoint than Horford - Smith - Marvin were.  Heck, we watched AJ struggle mightily in the 2nd half of the season where he hit the rookie wall.  JJ played better as the year went on, and still couldn't get legit rotation minutes.  OO has improved, but no one can definitely say that he's better than Capela at this moment.

These kids are not generational talents. Because of that, they can easily be replaced.  It's not a coincidence that in 2021 when we made our playoff run, we made it basically without "Wingstop" ( Hunter and Reddish ). 

I'm rooting for our current crop of kids more than anyone.  I said back in January when we were struggling, that Nate's only chance was to start playing the kids more.  He didn't do it ( with JJ ) and it got him fired.

Quin seems to love JJ, but the jury may still be out on AJ in his eyes.  So it will be interesting to see what his role is.

 

Fans are fooling themselves if they think that all 4 of those guys are going to be impact players.  We might even have to get rid of Bogi, just to free up playing time for AJ.  Bufkin isn't a true PG, more like a combo guard, so we might even have an issue at that spot.

Here are the NBADraft.net comparisons for each player

• Kobe Bufkin ....................... Jordan Poole
• AJ Griffin ............................ Jamal Mashburn/Robert Covington
• Jalen Johnson .................... Stephen Jackson/TJ Warren
• Oneyka Okongwu .............. John Collins/Montrezl Harrell

Agree or disagree?

If you disagree, name the NBA comparisons for each player as you see them.

[JayBirdHawk]

8 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Oh my gosh.  This should be pinned at the top of every post.  We just love our young guys because maybe one day they will be impact players.   We thought the future was right around the corner with Trae,Kev,Cam,Hunter,JC.  How'd that work out? 

Like you said no other player is good enough for us.  Folks called Derrick White trash and a low impact player when Boston acquired him.  He friggin rained 3s on us in the playoffs while playing good D. 

Here's what winning moves look like:

 

I just posted the below. I'm done worrying about the owner's money. We've seen enough teams maneuver in and out of the tax and remain competitive, same will be true with the wnd apron.

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

First, it was we can't go past the LT....now it's the 2nd Apron. We will forever operate as sisters of the poor, and this is not me saying to do this deal or not, but at some point we have to get past this mental block regarding team salary and always using it as a crutch.

The strictest of the 2nd Apron rules kick in where a team is above the 2nd Apron for 3 consecutive years (if what I read is correct).

 

[Hawkish]

12 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

There is no way that AJ - JJ - OO is a better trio from a potential standpoint than Horford - Smith - Marvin were.  Heck, we watched AJ struggle mightily in the 2nd half of the season where he hit the rookie wall.  JJ played better as the year went on, and still couldn't get legit rotation minutes.  OO has improved, but no one can definitely say that he's better than Capela at this moment.

These kids are not generational talents. Because of that, they can easily be replaced.  It's not a coincidence that in 2021 when we made our playoff run, we made it basically without "Wingstop" ( Hunter and Reddish ). 

I'm rooting for our current crop of kids more than anyone.  I said back in January when we were struggling, that Nate's only chance was to start playing the kids more.  He didn't do it ( with JJ ) and it got him fired.

Quin seems to love JJ, but the jury may still be out on AJ in his eyes.  So it will be interesting to see what his role is.

 

Fans are fooling themselves if they think that all 4 of those guys are going to be impact players.  We might even have to get rid of Bogi, just to free up playing time for AJ.  Bufkin isn't a true PG, more like a combo guard, so we might even have an issue at that spot.

Here are the NBADraft.net comparisons for each player

• Kobe Bufkin ....................... Jordan Poole
• AJ Griffin ............................ Jamal Mashburn/Robert Covington
• Jalen Johnson .................... Stephen Jackson/TJ Warren
• Oneyka Okongwu .............. John Collins/Montrezl Harrell

Agree or disagree?

If you disagree, name the NBA comparisons for each player as you see them.

Enjoyed watching Mashburn play.  Those Timmy/Dan/Mash/PJ/Zo teams were tough. Heat-Knicks on NBC is nostalgic.  I remember when Allan Houston signed that enormous contract for its time. (While Latrell Sprewell had children to feed…)

[TheNorthCydeRises]

16 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Now it makes perfect sense Diesel. Trae fans are worried that Trae will leave after his extension is up. I didn't think about that...Thanks

 

You damn right we're worried.

Unless we have another high level player to replace Trae, we're counting on these kids to elevate this team to the next level.  Kids that we will have to give major deals to, just to keep around.

Excuse me for having more faith in the guy that was instrumental in seeing the Hawks making their deepest run into the playoffs in my lifetime.  Even a deeper run than my all-time favorite player Dominique. 

That's the guy I want to keep around, and surround with higher level players.  And that was Nique's issue.  He had great complimentary players, but never that 2nd or 3rd guy that the team could count on to help Nique carry the team.  His entire legacy as a player was tarnished, because people only saw Nique as a gunner that couldn't win in the playoffs, and not as a guy trying to do everything to help his team win games.

 

[Peoriabird]

Just now, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

You damn right we're worried.

Unless we have another high level player to replace Trae, we're counting on these kids to elevate this team to the next level.  Kids that we will have to give major deals to, just to keep around.

Excuse me for having more faith in the guy that was instrumental in seeing the Hawks making their deepest run into the playoffs in my lifetime.  Even a deeper run than my all-time favorite player Dominique. 

That's the guy I want to keep around, and surround with higher level players.  And that was Nique's issue.  He had great complimentary players, but never that 2nd or 3rd guy that the team could count on to help Nique carry the team.  His entire legacy as a player was tarnished, because people only saw Nique as a gunner that couldn't win in the playoffs, and not as a guy trying to do everything to help his team win games.

 

The Hawk have 4 year to make moves if necessary. The moves should be smart not knee jerked. Plus Trae Young has something to prove himself after playing so poorly last year so it goes both ways.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

Also a fact is that it does not lead to playoff wins which much more important than any individual accomplishment. The goal is not have shinny new object to make a play in tournament run. The goal is to become a contender and there is no evidence that the combo of Young/Murray/Sakam even come close that goal. I've stated this in the past that team building and chemistry takes time.  most all championship teams went through team building and the development of chemistry...Hawk fan for some reason think that this team is close and Siakam is the final piece. To those fans that believe this you are flat out delusional! But if you want to go the New York Knicks route, have at it. History says that you will be a perpetual lover and at most a treadmill team.

 

This is not the 1980s or 1990s.  In this era, the goal is to find a high level player, and put more high level players with him to win games.  Sometimes, your organization is good enough where you end up drafting 2 guys that end up being high level players, and you can build on that.  Other organizations go out and get high level players to pair with each other.

Thing is though, that organizations normally knows immediately if they have a young high level player. And when they do, they throw him right into the fire.

If our kids are as good as we think they are, at least 2 of them should be in the starting lineup next season, with the other getting significant minutes.

This is why I want to see your boy Hunter take that next step.  Because if he isn't going to progress, we may as well give most of his minutes to AJ, to see if he becomes that star player.

Even the Nuggets had to go out and get Aaron Gordon, a guy that most had left for dead because he wasn't cut out to be a #1, but has been a perfect #3 or #4 option on the Nuggets.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

44 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Oh my gosh.  This should be pinned at the top of every post.  We just love our young guys because maybe one day they will be impact players.   We thought the future was right around the corner with Trae,Kev,Cam,Hunter,JC.  How'd that work out? 

Like you said no other player is good enough for us.  Folks called Derrick White trash and a low impact player when Boston acquired him.  He friggin rained 3s on us in the playoffs while playing good D. 

Here's what winning moves look like:

 

 

I didn't even see your post when I mentioned Aaron Gordon.  But this is 100% correct.

And everyone thought we were good with Trae - JC - Hunter - Reddish - and Kevin.   That was supposed to be our squad.

4 years later . . . JC, Kevin, and Reddish are gone.  And we're still waiting on Hunter to get to that next level.  And we're waiting to see if we get MVP level play out of Trae.

But we make our deep run to the EC Finals with vets like Gallo, Lou Williams, and the Knife ( Solo ) logging major playoff minutes.

When a kid is good, you almost immediately see it.  And when you see it, you better play him.

[Final_quest]

To no one in particular because this was 70-85% of the board.  Ya'll thought Cam Reddish would be a star.  I don't trust anyone who is convinced these young guys will be better than Brown or Siakam.  

[JayBirdHawk]

7 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Trae - JC - Hunter - Reddish - and Kevin

4 years later . . . JC, Kevin, and Reddish are gone.  And we're still waiting on Hunter to get to that next level.  And we're waiting to see if we get MVP level play out of Trae.

Things change quickly in the NBA. Gotta ride the wave or get left behind.

[Peoriabird]

2 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

This is not the 1980s or 1990s.  In this era, the goal is to find a high level player, and put more high level players with him to win games.  Sometimes, your organization is good enough where you end up drafting 2 guys that end up being high level players, and you can build on that.  Other organizations go out and get high level players to pair with each other.

Thing is though, that organizations normally knows immediately if they have a young high level player. And when they do, they throw him right into the fire.

If our kids are as good as we think they are, at least 2 of them should be in the starting lineup next season, with the other getting significant minutes.

This is why I want to see your boy Hunter take that next step.  Because if he isn't going to progress, we may as well give most of his minutes to AJ, to see if he becomes that star player.

Even the Nuggets had to go out and get Aaron Gordon, a guy that most had left for dead because he wasn't cut out to be a #1, but has been a perfect #3 or #4 option on the Nuggets.

Most of Denver's growth was through Jokic and Murray. They are just flat out better today than they were 3 years ago. The rest of the team were just back up dancers and many NBA players could have fulfilled their roles.

[Peoriabird]

14 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

To no one in particular because this was 70-85% of the board.  Ya'll thought Cam Reddish would be a star.  I don't trust anyone who is convinced these young guys will be better than Brown or Siakam.  

No one is questioning Brown's star power. He along with Tatum carried the Celtics to the conference final and the finals. Siakam doesn't have those credentials on his resume.

[JayBirdHawk]

9 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

No one is questioning Brown's star power. He along with Tatum carried the Celtics to the conference final and the finals. Siakam doesn't have those credentials on his resume.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

32 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

To no one in particular because this was 70-85% of the board.  Ya'll thought Cam Reddish would be a star.  I don't trust anyone who is convinced these young guys will be better than Brown or Siakam.  

This is a mic drop post.

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

To no one in particular because this was 70-85% of the board.  Ya'll thought Cam Reddish would be a star.  I don't trust anyone who is convinced these young guys will be better than Brown or Siakam.  

So just because 1 drafted player didn't work out, the league should give up on drafted players altogether?

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

30 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Most of Denver's growth was through Jokic and Murray. They are just flat out better today than they were 3 years ago. The rest of the team were just back up dancers and many NBA players could have fulfilled there roles.

 

EXACTLY.  So why do you think our backup dancers can't be replaced by higher quality guys?

 

Denver's team 3 years ago:  This team got to the WC Finals in 2020

 

Denver's NBA Champion team last season

 

Flipped everyone except for 3 guys.  And one of the guys they flipped, just got a 5 yr/ 160 mill deal.

The thing that people forget about Denver, is that Michael Porter Jr would've been a potential top 3 lottery pick, if it wasn't for his injury history in college.

So they have MVP level in Jokic . . All-Star level in Murray . . sniper shooter in Porter Jr . . and Gordon was the #4 pick in the draft and makes the perfect 4 for Jokic with his athleticism.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

53 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

No one is questioning Brown's star power. He along with Tatum carried the Celtics to the conference final and the finals. Siakam doesn't have those credentials on his resume.

 

LOL . . . come on man.  And he was still a "baby" when he did this.

 

 

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

LOL . . . come on man.  And he was still a "baby" when he did this.

 

 

It's OK to disagree

8 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

EXACTLY.  So why do you think our backup dancers can't be replaced by higher quality guys?

 

Denver's team 3 years ago:  This team got to the WC Finals in 2020

 

Denver's NBA Champion team last season

 

Flipped everyone except for 3 guys.  And one of the guys they flipped, just got a 5 yr/ 160 mill deal.

The thing that people forget about Denver, is that Michael Porter Jr would've been a potential top 3 lottery pick, if it wasn't for his injury history in college.

So they have MVP level in Jokic . . All-Star level in Murray . . sniper shooter in Porter Jr . . and Gordon was the #4 pick in the draft and makes the perfect 4 for Jokic with his athleticism.

You proved my point

[Final_quest]

20 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So just because 1 drafted player didn't work out, the league should give up on drafted players altogether?

 

Just saying I don’t trust when Hawksquawk has consensus on a player.  

[Peoriabird]

30 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Just saying I don’t trust when Hawksquawk has consensus on a player.  

If you can remember, I was highly critical of the pick.