It's time for a grown man talk about Siakim....

[Diesel]

Let's start Here...

https://www.nba.com/game/chi-vs-tor-0052200111/box-score

 

While we were destroying Miami in the playin game.   Toronto was losing to Chicago.. mightily.   First the game... Toronto wasn't missing anybody.  Everybody came to play.  Hell VanVleet gave them 26 and 12 and shot 53% from three on 7 made threes.   Damn.   Barnes even contributed.   And yes, Siakim gave them 32 points.   BUT...  Chicago shot 48%.  That means that damn near half the shots that Chicago put up, they hit. 

Now, if Siakim is supposed to be a defensive stopper, what happened in Chicago?  Interesting thing is that they played DeRozan at the PF.  DeRozan is 6'6" 220 pounds.   Surely he didn't outmuscle Siakim?  So I wanted to be thorough.   Here's what Dorozen did...

 

It's not a lot. Just mostly in the paint.   You know why?  Toronto was running a 2-3 zone, and Derozan called for the clear out and ran down the middle and dunked it on whoever was there.    Maybe this is why Nurse was fired.   Then I looked again and said, well Lavine scored 39 points.  Maybe he was doing something to open the floor for DeRozan...  So I looked.

 

You can watch the highlights.   Lavine was getting his points the same way.  Attacking the inside.  In certain times, there was a question about Siakim's point of attack defense.   Isn't that why we want him??

Maybe that's just one bad game.   Everybody can have those.    Well, Van Vleet was an allstar.. wasn't he all NBA too?  the real question is.. 

Why were The Raptors in the lower seed of the playin to start with??

Hawks fans are jumping up and down about getting Siakim and OG.. but the question is.. why were they not good in Toronto?

 

[Diesel]

The thing that should scare every Hawks fan is this...

Siakim will be traded because he's due the supermax which I believe is 52 Million per. 

He has stated that he will not resign with the team he is traded to...

I believe him.  Mainly because he will be pissed.   Think of how much money is loss when he is traded. 

Toronto will trade him because they know he's not worth it.   So he will be traded either now or at the deadline so they don't have to worry about the headaches that moving him will cause.  They don't want a JB situation... and the longer it goes on, the more other teams (us included) will lowball them.   So if they can get a sucker on the hook (like us) they will trade Siakim for a King's ransom. 

It turns out people that he is just a RENTAL.

Now, if you know this going in and still want to do it good.  But you should consider what your team is willing to trade for a Rental. 

Let's consider my limit...

Bufkin, Hunter, and Capela 

The truth is.. I dont know how good Bufkin will be.  Capela is a great loss to our defense.   Hunter is a loss to our unseen, unimpactful defense.  However, to have a big three of Trae, Siakim, and DJ... may be a key to going to the finals. 

What we shouldn't give...

AJ, OO, JJ, and DJ...

I understand that people believe that DJ is going to have us in the same boat i.e. becoming a FA in the offseason.   However, I think that DJ is loyal. 

Under no circumstance would I consider trading AJ.  He is better than all the rest.   He is the future.   He will comprise a big three with more seasoning. 

If we trade Capela then No OO. 

JJ and Bey is substitutable with Bufkin.. kinda. 

The thing is that he's a rental.   There is no guarantees at all that he can be resigned.   In fact, I believe him when he says that he will not resign with the team that blows his Supermax.

 

 

[gurpilo]

I really hope we don't trade anything valuable for Siakam. I could accept Capela and Bogi and that is it. I don't even want to lose Hunter. If Hunter is included I want Achiuwa or Boucher on Hawks uniform.

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, gurpilo said:

I really hope we don't trade anything valuable for Siakam. I could accept Capela and Bogi and that is it. I don't even want to lose Hunter. If Hunter is included I want Achiuwa or Boucher on Hawks uniform.

You just named off two of the most valuable players we have.

Everybody gets all in a tizzy about JJ and OO and AJ... however the truth is.. that the work in the areas that others are hoping these others can do is being done very well by Capela and Bogi.   I would say under no circumstance should we trade Bogi.   You don't find guys who can wake up out of a strong sleep, get a basketball and shoot 42% from three without washing his face.  That's who Bogi is.   Our ECF run was because we had great shooting from Bogi.   Bey is a good sidekick but he's not ready to be Batman.  And AJ is going to be Batman one day.. but not yet. 

Clint... Sheez.  I listen to you guys talk about all the good that OO is doing.   He's great.   I realize that a lot of this gas is due to the fact that we drafted him.   Surely, most of you didn't watch the series against Boston or the game against Miami.   Clint was the Miami win.  His defense and rebounding shut down all of their second chances.    I have chalked it up to we won't miss Clint until he's gone.   I just hope that we get more for Clint than we got for JC.  Clint is very valuable. 

 

Hunter's best defense is Supes on Hawksquawk.   I have seen no impact.  He doesn't produce turnovers.   He doesn't block shots.  He just stands in front of his man and bothers his shot.   He doesn't provide help defense.  He's not a defensive savant.  He is just out there.  Some people think that that's good POA defense.  Not really.  I had a season with Delon Wright.  That guy can write a book on how to play defense.   And Hunter and Murray should buy it. 

 

[gurpilo]

Cita

You just named off two of the most valuable players we have.

Everybody gets all in a tizzy about JJ and OO and AJ... however the truth is.. that the work in the areas that others are hoping these others can do is being done very well by Capela and Bogi.   I would say under no circumstance should we trade Bogi.   You don't find guys who can wake up out of a strong sleep, get a basketball and shoot 42% from three without washing his face.  That's who Bogi is.   Our ECF run was because we had great shooting from Bogi.   Bey is a good sidekick but he's not ready to be Batman.  And AJ is going to be Batman one day.. but not yet. 

Clint... Sheez.  I listen to you guys talk about all the good that OO is doing.   He's great.   I realize that a lot of this gas is due to the fact that we drafted him.   Surely, most of you didn't watch the series against Boston or the game against Miami.   Clint was the Miami win.  His defense and rebounding shut down all of their second chances.    I have chalked it up to we won't miss Clint until he's gone.   I just hope that we get more for Clint than we got for JC.  Clint is very valuable. 

 

Hunter's best defense is Supes on Hawksquawk.   I have seen no impact.  He doesn't produce turnovers.   He doesn't block shots.  He just stands in front of his man and bothers his shot.   He doesn't provide help defense.  He's not a defensive savant.  He is just out there.  Some people think that that's good POA defense.  Not really.  I had a season with Delon Wright.  That guy can write a book on how to play defense.   And Hunter and Murray should buy it. 

I understand the value they have today but you need to understand the value this team will have in a year.

The moment we drafted Bufkin and AJ, I want them to play the minutes at guard rotation.

Trae and DJM are going to play 30-35, I want the rest of the minutes 13-18 to go to Kobe and AJ. AJ is a star prospect, he provides the same value as Bogi much cheaper, has the tools to be a better defender. Bufkin shots also well and defends well, we cannot play Bogi with Trae at backcourt if we don’t want to get destroyed. I want size at SF, I don’t want Bogi or AJ there. Is a bad idea to pay 18 million to a guy that cannot share his natural position with your star or you need to play him out of position.

Capela is a good center but we would get Siakam in return to pair with OO that is better duo than JJ/Capela.

Today is the day Bogi and Capela have more value, hey we can wait 1-2 more years and make a Collins deal or lose them for nothing, you think is a better plan?

Edited July 3, 2023 by gurpilo

[NBASupes]

22 minutes ago, Diesel said:

You just named off two of the most valuable players we have.

Everybody gets all in a tizzy about JJ and OO and AJ... however the truth is.. that the work in the areas that others are hoping these others can do is being done very well by Capela and Bogi.   I would say under no circumstance should we trade Bogi.   You don't find guys who can wake up out of a strong sleep, get a basketball and shoot 42% from three without washing his face.  That's who Bogi is.   Our ECF run was because we had great shooting from Bogi.   Bey is a good sidekick but he's not ready to be Batman.  And AJ is going to be Batman one day.. but not yet. 

Clint... Sheez.  I listen to you guys talk about all the good that OO is doing.   He's great.   I realize that a lot of this gas is due to the fact that we drafted him.   Surely, most of you didn't watch the series against Boston or the game against Miami.   Clint was the Miami win.  His defense and rebounding shut down all of their second chances.    I have chalked it up to we won't miss Clint until he's gone.   I just hope that we get more for Clint than we got for JC.  Clint is very valuable. 

 

Hunter's best defense is Supes on Hawksquawk.   I have seen no impact.  He doesn't produce turnovers.   He doesn't block shots.  He just stands in front of his man and bothers his shot.   He doesn't provide help defense.  He's not a defensive savant.  He is just out there.  Some people think that that's good POA defense.  Not really.  I had a season with Delon Wright.  That guy can write a book on how to play defense.   And Hunter and Murray should buy it. 

 

You're not the brightest, Diesel. You don't see a lot of things that happen on the Basketball court. 

[Diesel]

19 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

You're not the brightest, Diesel. You don't see a lot of things that happen on the Basketball court. 

Not the brightest?  Ok insider...  why was Toronto even in that position?  Let me help you.

They have NO shooters.   OG nor Pascal nor Barnes are any good at shooting from outside.   They Just lost FVV which was their only shooter... and they replaced him with DS.   They hope DS can have some kind of PNR game.  They went out and drafted Grady d*ck in hopes that he can help their miserable shooting.  

So am I drooling about getting a guy who scores inside... only.. who is not effecient.. whoose true shooting is one of the worst in the league in comparison to other players who have similar usage??  

NOPE...

And on top of that... He's a rental. 

If you want Bright, find a lightbulb asshole. 

 

[Diesel]

Oh.. By The way people. 

If Toronto wants anything from us.. it's shooters. 

Yeah, they want AJ.  They probably want Bey.. they may even ask for Bogi. 

They realize that they cannot shoot. 

I wouldn't give any of our good shooters for Siakim.   We will be just like Toronto was last year...  Struggling from outside. 

 

[yungsta]

Don't get all the love for Siakim we dump 1 undersized 4 that isn't a good shooter so we can trade for another undersized 4 that isn't a good shooter that is older and more expensive.

At the 4 all we need is someone who can guard their position, make the extra pass and get out of DJM and Trae's way.

We know DJM and Trae will be taking 20+ shots each every night so the bigs will be underutilized on offense and will need to create space with 3 point shooting.

 

 

 

[benhillboy]

Before Supes and D get warnings I’ll just say Siakam’s third year was such an outlier statistically and I’m sure on tape as I was quite high on him at the time but obviously Kawhi.  He’s been meh since.  It’s hard to evaluate Raptors in general under Nurse they were just weird like that.  Boucher is my dude though, OG has always been overrated IMO although he is an elite off ball defender, and Barnes flashes awesome and awful.

[timebomb]

If I’m not mistaken Bogi can’t be traded for however many months after he signed his extension so Bogi will not be involved in any offseason trades. Someone check me on that. 

I think a third team has to be involved if they don’t include DJM which I think is what we’re trying to do. And that third team probably wants CC is what I’m thinking and TOR wants some combination of Hunter Kobe AJ possibly or pick but we’d probably get a backup center or pick on top of Siakam.

BTW I’ve wanted Siakam for years he plays D and I honestly don’t care about advanced metrics above my eyes. I think he would take this team to the next level.

Edited July 4, 2023 by timebomb

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, timebomb said:

If I’m not mistaken Bogi can’t be traded for however many months after he signed his extension so Bogi will not be involved in any offseason trades. Someone check me on that. 

I think a third team has to be involved if they don’t include DJM which I think is what we’re trying to do. And that third team probably wants CC is what I’m thinking and TOR wants some combination of Hunter Kobe AJ possibly or pick but we’d probably get a backup center or pick on top of Siakam.

BTW I’ve wanted Siakam for years he plays D and I honestly don’t care about advanced metrics above my eyes. I think he would take this team to the next level.

The problem is that he's vying for the same shots in the same areas as OO & DJM. 

Namely, he is not an outside shooter so the inside is going to be crowded.  It's the same problem we seen in JC once he couldn't hit his outside shot.   JC is a very good inside player but he was occupying the same real estate as CC.  Offensively, this is a big mistake. 

Defensively, he may work for our good.   However, if it were possible, I would try to entice Milwaukee to trade Portis.  Portis just fits a whole lot better. 

 

[timebomb]

I don’t think Portis is available because he signed a reasonable deal and overachieved on it but I think Siakam is on another level anyway. I honestly rather have him than PG who could possibly be had. Portis bug eyes I’d love to have on my team but Siakam is what JC is not on defense and what Portis is not on offense. Siakam can create his own shot. He put up 24 points a game on a team with several other scorers and create for others plus he’s not going to leave his feet while defending a post player drawing fouls and sitting on the bench in foul trouble like JC. He’s not as good in the pick and roll as JC but everywhere else he’s better. He’s a better fit with Trea than DJM but with Quinn who loves to use multiple slip screens and a year to employ his system I think the three of them together could be something special.

[Diesel]

15 minutes ago, timebomb said:

I don’t think Portis is available because he signed a reasonable deal and overachieved on it but I think Siakam is on another level anyway. I honestly rather have him than PG who could possibly be had. Portis bug eyes I’d love to have on my team but Siakam is what JC is not on defense and what Portis is not on offense. Siakam can create his own shot. He put up 24 points a game on a team with several other scorers and create for others plus he’s not going to leave his feet while defending a post player drawing fouls and sitting on the bench in foul trouble like JC. He’s not as good in the pick and roll as JC but everywhere else he’s better. He’s a better fit with Trea than DJM but with Quinn who loves to use multiple slip screens and a year to employ his system I think the three of them together could be something special.

If it costs us DJ, I don't want either.   Better deals will come.

About Portis over Siakam... I like the contract too.   We could get him with the TPE and maybe a future draft pick.   Milwaukee just signed Middleton to what 36 Million per...   And just signed Lopez for what 23-25 per...   With Holiday and Giannis already making big money.. it's unsustainable. 

+  Portis is a better fit.   He plays defense and he's a great stretch 4. 

 

[Spud2nique]

Grown man talk? Oooohhh.. I’ll let myself out. 

 

 

[givemesome1ce1]

My issue with a Siakam trade is that it doesn’t solve any of the main issues that our team has. Our point of attack defense will still be bad. We would still have to have to develop whatever young players we have on the roster for at least a year in Quin. We would still have to find a way to extend Siakam after the offseason. We already have to deal with that stuff with Murray, so why would we make another trade for an older player so we can deal with the same problems? Adding Siakam on this roster isn’t going to make us instantly a contender. So what’s the point of even taking the risk?
 

 

There may be even more problems that could pop up. If Murray is in a Siakam deal, we would have to find a starting SG because there’s no chance Bogi who has injury concerns will be able to start and AJ is literally in his second year. The best time to trade for Siakam was before the draft. It’s too late to do it now. Hawks shouldn’t give in to the Raptors dumb trade demands. Just keep the roster as is and just let Quin train the team.

Edited July 4, 2023 by givemesome1ce1

[Atlantaholic]

I have mixed feelings about Siakam, I think he's a DJM type of guy as far as value. If we could come up with a package to swap them I would do it. I'd rather be stuck with Siakam at the max than both Trae and DJM who play the same position.

[Diesel]

30 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

I have mixed feelings about Siakam, I think he's a DJM type of guy as far as value. If we could come up with a package to swap them I would do it. I'd rather be stuck with Siakam at the max than both Trae and DJM who play the same position.

I don't see a future with Siakam.   IF he keeps his word, he doesn't resign.  We enter Danny Manning neighborhood.

If he does resign, according to @KB21 our advantage over other teams is offering him a 5 year deal with 8% raises...  meaning that he'll be 34 and 35 years old getting about 60 Million per from us.

To me... that's not the best way to go. 

But if we offered him a three million dollar Max deal, there will be a team willing to go 4 year max. 

 

[Atlantaholic]

16 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I don't see a future with Siakam.   IF he keeps his word, he doesn't resign.  We enter Danny Manning neighborhood.

If he does resign, according to @KB21 our advantage over other teams is offering him a 5 year deal with 8% raises...  meaning that he'll be 34 and 35 years old getting about 60 Million per from us.

To me... that's not the best way to go. 

But if we offered him a three million dollar Max deal, there will be a team willing to go 4 year max. 

 

I know this has already been discussed but I would take anything Siakam and his camp say atm with a grain of salt. They have only one goal in mind and that is to make sure he isn't traded so he can get more money. Once he's traded that "more money" ceases to exist, and then the "most money" becomes staying a Hawk or whatever other team he ends up getting traded too. Odds are you get the fastest 180 in attitude you'll ever see the instant (if) he gets traded.

[Gray Mule]

Just say no!  It's this easy.  The only Hawks I'd want to trade for him are currently on our 3rd string.  Anything else, for a one year rental, and this is what you would get, is not worth it.

He may be very good.  He may even be grand.  Next summer, when he walks away to go play with "The King" or whoever he has his heart set on, what the Hawks have left is all that you would have because all your players would be in Canada.

But, what if he stays?  He would take up all the payroll.  He and Trae and has been NBA players and rookies would be all you could afford.  You're a loser either way.  By the way, he did lead his current team as they won the NBA title this spring, didn't he?  
That's what I thought you would say!!