Quin is FAILING the Hawks . . Landry too!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

This game for about 7 decades has been played with 2 bigs.  Bigs that couldn't necessarily shoot an outside shot at a prolific rate.  But the bigs provided necessary defensive and rebounding support. 

In the "shooters era", teams act like they can't play big on the frontline.  That shooting is paramount over everything.  The crazy thing is that most of the teams that are actually winning, have big frontlines.

MINNESOTA

• Gobert:  7 - 1
• KAT:  7 - 0
• McDaniels:  6 - 9
• Reid:  6 - 9 ( off the bench )

MILWAUKEE

• Lopez:  7 - 1
• Giannis:  6 - 11
• Middleton:  6 - 7
• Portis: 6 - 10 ( off the bench )

DENVER

• Jokic:  6 - 11
• Porter Jr:  6 - 10
• Gordon:  6 - 8
• Jordan: 6 - 11 ( off the bench )

PHILADELPHIA

• Embiid:  7 - 0
• Harris: 6 - 8
• Batum:  6 - 8

ORLANDO

• M. Wagner:  6 - 11
• Bitadze:  6 - 11
• Banchero:  6 - 10
• F. Wagner:  6 - 10 ( off the bench )
• Issac:  6 - 10 ( off the bench )

Even now, BOSTON can throw out this lineup at any given moment

• Porzingis:  7 - 2
• Horford:  6 - 9
• Tatum:  6 - 8

OKLAHOMA CITY is the only outlier.  But their team has very skilled "big guards" and their tallest player, Holmgren at 7 - 1, is very skilled as well.

 

But the Hawks?  We're trying to attack teams with this

• Capela:  6 - 10
• Bey:  6 - 7
• Matthews:  6 - 5 ( both of them are this size )
• Okongwu:  6 - 8 ( off the bench )

Even when healthy, we go

• Capela:  6 - 10
• J. Johnson:  6 - 9
• Hunter:  6 - 8
• Okongwu:  6 - 8 ( off the bench )

 

And our guys aren't tough guys.  They're soft, for the most part.  But Quin REFUSES to commit to a bigger lineup, because he firmly believes that we can out shoot everybody.  Those guys that he's inserting into the lineup, either can't shoot or can't defend . . or both.

Quin is flat out FAILING this team right now, by continuing to play small.   Bruno Fernando is not the answer to our overall issues.  But he does give you an ACTIVE BIG that you can play off the bench.

Who cares if you only have 3 shooters in the game.  The game was played for decades with only 3 guys who could shoot.  The question is, would playing a bigger frontline shore up our defensive rebounding issues, and prevent 2nd chance points?  Even last night, it was a late rebound that Capela by himself couldn't secure, that led to a Grizzlies put back and stretched the lead to 6 or 7 points with under a minute left.  Getting stops isn't just about playing good POA defense.  It's about securing defensive rebounds.

And when the Hawks rank 27th in Defensive Rebounding, WHY IN THE F--K DO YOU CONTINUE TO PLAY SMALL FRONT LINE LINEUPS?

 

Trae is an offensive mastermid, with his ability to score and pass the basketball. He and DJ might be less of a liability on defense, if they just play bigger on the frontline.

• Bey should never play PF . . EVER. 
• Bruno should be getting the minutes at backup C that he's giving Garrison Matthews. 
• OO should be seeing 1/2 of his minutes being at PF
• And when JJ comes back, he should start seeing more minutes at the 3, instead of exclusively playing the 4.

We CANNOT keep playing small against these teams.

 

Quin Snyder and his coaching staff are failing this team, along with the front office and ownership who refused to get bigger and talented frontcourt players on this team.

YOU'RE FAILING US QUIN AND LANDRY!

[909]

I personally don’t like small ball myself. Unless you have an Rodman or Ben Wallace type player  go bigger. Golden State run was fool’s gold. 

[JayBirdHawk]

Play BIG!!!

[Diesel]

49 minutes ago, 909 said:

I personally don’t like small ball myself. Unless you have an Rodman or Ben Wallace type player  go bigger. Golden State run was fool’s gold. 

I think what people missed about the Golden State run was the ability of Klay and Draymond.    With Klay and Draymond, you had 2 SICK defenders who could shut down what the opposing teams are trying to do.    Add to that a rebounder... any rebounder and it works with Curry's shooting.    When I say a rebounder.. I mean  Bogut, Looney, Zaza, Chriss.   Draymond was good enough to tell people where to be.  So.. you start with that.   That's going to be impossible to replicate unless you have those guys.

[Gray Mule]

Please!  Don't call this Hawk team and their head coach a failure until they have their players available from off the injured list.  Hawks may not be made up of players that some of us really like.  However, this team cannot function correctly until all their players are available.

I agree that, right now, this team is not very good.  More stuff goes wrong than what goes right.

Note:  Shocker - - Which Hawk, in recent games, has been the best free throw shooter?

GO ATL HAWKS!

[Vol4ever]

Bey has shown some fight but like you say he is just too small.  

[TheNorthCydeRises]

10 hours ago, Gray Mule said:

Please!  Don't call this Hawk team and their head coach a failure until they have their players available from off the injured list.  Hawks may not be made up of players that some of us really like.  However, this team cannot function correctly until all their players are available.

I agree that, right now, this team is not very good.  More stuff goes wrong than what goes right.

Note:  Shocker - - Which Hawk, in recent games, has been the best free throw shooter?

GO ATL HAWKS!

 

There are plenty of teams around the league that are missing a role player or a key player, and they're able to survive their absence.

The Chicago Bulls just passed us in the standings.  They are 8 - 4 without arguably their top player in Zach Lavine.  Ironically, they're our next opponent.

 

If Quin is such a good coach, he can figure this out.

Playing Garrison and Wesley Matthews is not "figuring it out".

 

 

 

 

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

There are plenty of teams around the league that are missing a role player or a key player, and they're able to survive their absence.

The Chicago Bulls just passed us in the standings.  They are 8 - 4 without arguably their top player in Zach Lavine.  Ironically, they're our next opponent.

 

If Quin is such a good coach, he can figure this out.

Playing Garrison and Wesley Matthews is not "figuring it out".

 

 

 

 

I'm not here to argue for Quinn because there are things that he should do.  However, the Bulls are not a good model for you to hang your hat on.  They see Lavine as being a net negative for the team. 

 

[macdaddy]

The real bottom line is you need talent.  We don't have enough talented forwards period and now that some of them are hurt we're in trouble.  The Mat(t)hews should not be a regular part of any nba rotation.  Bey should not be your starting PF. 

[TheBigETrain]

So many flawed players on this team. The roster construction has been terrible. Schlenk should have gone much sooner. And Fields seems too inexperienced / gun shy to make a move to shake up the team.

It is a current malaise that I don’t see much improvement coming. My thoughts on the roster and who we should keep or trade is as follows.

Young - He doesn’t know his limitations . Tries way too many unnecessary logo threes. Clearly doesn’t like to be challenged as seen with coach Nate and Lloyd Pierce. For someone with such great court awareness, his playmaking can be outstanding but far too often his decision making is bad and it results in far too many forced shots and ugly turnovers. I feel that despite all the assists, he still doesn’t make his teammates better. Who has really improved since Trae has run the team? Jalen Johnson might be the only one but that is more due to playing time rather than Trae’s influence. Out of the young players that has played with Trae, John Collins went backwards. Okongwu is treading water or heading in the same backwards direction. Hunter is the same. I feel this team current problems will continue while Trae remains on the team. Maybe that is far too harsh on Trae as he is a young player that is outstanding offensively. But as the Cavs are finding out with Donovan Mitchell, sometimes that talented player is still not the best for the team going forward. Sooner or later Trae is probably going to ask for a trade and I’m ready for this team to have a new leader. TRADE

Murray - Good player but clearly not a star. I feel his all round game has regressed since been paired with Trae. He used to be an above average rebounder and defender for a guard. Not anymore. I think Murray spurs player is better than Murray hawks player. However I would like to see him run this team without Trae on the team. It won’t happen though. Murray will get traded first before Trae. But my preference would be to KEEP.

Bogdanovic - The team’s 3rd best player after Trae and Dejounte. Great season coming off the bench, I feel his value is not going to get any higher and Hawks really need to take advantage of this and trade him. At age 31 he doesn’t fit the teams timeline. TRADE

Hunter - Way too inconsistent with both his play on the court and injuries. He needs to go asap or we will find another John Collins situation with Hunter whereby he is shopped around with no offers and he ends up being a cap dump trade.TRADE

Bey - I don’t mind him. He is like a more consistent Hunter that has better compete level. However I would be extremely nervous about paying him because I feel he has reached his ceiling as a player despite being only 24 years old. I’m not sure what the right contract number is for him. KEEP at the right price.

Capela - Another solid player. Probably the only one on the current roster that can actually play center. We know what we will get from Capela each night. 10 points , 10 rebounds and good D. Those role players can be valuable to have. KEEP

Okongwu - Major disappointment. Doesn’t want to compete hard. Gets abused too much by bigger guys. I don’t think he is a center and should be trialled at power forward or traded for a big man with better work ethic. Losing patience fast with him. He was told to work on his outside shot which to be fair he has, but his inside game has gone soft as a result. And I absolutely hate that for a big man. Not seeing the development and feel he has got complacent with his spot on the team so much so I’ll look around the league and see what we can get back for him. TRADE

Mathews / Matthews - Not their fault, but both play far too many minutes. They are a 11th or 12th man that is asked to play as a 7th or 8th man that is in the regular rotation. I don’t think Garrison has the talent to be in the regular rotation and Wes is simply just washed at his stage of his career. This is more a Quin Snyder problem. TRADE/WAIVE
Griffin - I know AJ Griffin is currently out with personal reasons but when available he should be playing ahead of Mathews / Matthews. I don’t know why since Snyder became head coach that Griffin went straight to DNP-CD doghouse after looking so promising under Nate. Hope he sorts out his personal situation soon. KEEP

Bufkin - I am actually quite happy that he is away from this bad team and can develop his game at College Park. Hopefully with patience he can show he can be a player in a couple of seasons time like Jalen Johnson has done. KEEP

Mills - This guy has a won the title with Spurs, competes hard and can be a clutch shooter off the bench. If the plan was always to prioritize the youth movement by playing the likes of Forrest and Lundy ahead of Mills then why keep Mills on the team. To me I don’t understand why Wes Matthews gets minutes but not Mills. TRADE

Fernando - 3rd string center. He is never going to be more than that but every team needs one. KEEP

Gueye / Forrest / Lundy - Happy with their play in preseason / summer league and have future with the team. KEEP

[NBASupes]

9 minutes ago, TheBigETrain said:

So many flawed players on this team. The roster construction has been terrible. Schlenk should have gone much sooner. And Fields seems too inexperienced / gun shy to make a move to shake up the team.

It is a current malaise that I don’t see much improvement coming. My thoughts on the roster and who we should keep or trade is as follows.

Young - He doesn’t know his limitations . Tries way too many unnecessary logo threes. Clearly doesn’t like to be challenged as seen with coach Nate and Lloyd Pierce. For someone with such great court awareness, his playmaking can be outstanding but far too often his decision making is bad and it results in far too many forced shots and ugly turnovers. I feel that despite all the assists, he still doesn’t make his teammates better. Who has really improved since Trae has run the team? Jalen Johnson might be the only one but that is more due to playing time rather than Trae’s influence. Out of the young players that has played with Trae, John Collins went backwards. Okongwu is treading water or heading in the same backwards direction. Hunter is the same. I feel this team current problems will continue while Trae remains on the team. Maybe that is far too harsh on Trae as he is a young player that is outstanding offensively. But as the Cavs are finding out with Donovan Mitchell, sometimes that talented player is still not the best for the team going forward. Sooner or later Trae is probably going to ask for a trade and I’m ready for this team to have a new leader. TRADE

Murray - Good player but clearly not a star. I feel his all round game has regressed since been paired with Trae. He used to be an above average rebounder and defender for a guard. Not anymore. I think Murray spurs player is better than Murray hawks player. However I would like to see him run this team without Trae on the team. It won’t happen though. Murray will get traded first before Trae. But my preference would be to KEEP.

Bogdanovic - The team’s 3rd best player after Trae and Dejounte. Great season coming off the bench, I feel his value is not going to get any higher and Hawks really need to take advantage of this and trade him. At age 31 he doesn’t fit the teams timeline. TRADE

Hunter - Way too inconsistent with both his play on the court and injuries. He needs to go asap or we will find another John Collins situation with Hunter whereby he is shopped around with no offers and he ends up being a cap dump trade.TRADE

Bey - I don’t mind him. He is like a more consistent Hunter that has better compete level. However I would be extremely nervous about paying him because I feel he has reached his ceiling as a player despite being only 24 years old. I’m not sure what the right contract number is for him. KEEP at the right price.

Capela - Another solid player. Probably the only one on the current roster that can actually play center. We know what we will get from Capela each night. 10 points , 10 rebounds and good D. Those role players can be valuable to have. KEEP

Okongwu - Major disappointment. Doesn’t want to compete hard. Gets abused too much by bigger guys. I don’t think he is a center and should be trialled at power forward or traded for a big man with better work ethic. Losing patience fast with him. He was told to work on his outside shot which to be fair he has, but his inside game has gone soft as a result. And I absolutely hate that for a big man. Not seeing the development and feel he has got complacent with his spot on the team so much so I’ll look around the league and see what we can get back for him. TRADE

Mathews / Matthews - Not their fault, but both play far too many minutes. They are a 11th or 12th man that is asked to play as a 7th or 8th man that is in the regular rotation. I don’t think Garrison has the talent to be in the regular rotation and Wes is simply just washed at his stage of his career. This is more a Quin Snyder problem. TRADE/WAIVE
Griffin - I know AJ Griffin is currently out with personal reasons but when available he should be playing ahead of Mathews / Matthews. I don’t know why since Snyder became head coach that Griffin went straight to DNP-CD doghouse after looking so promising under Nate. Hope he sorts out his personal situation soon. KEEP

Bufkin - I am actually quite happy that he is away from this bad team and can develop his game at College Park. Hopefully with patience he can show he can be a player in a couple of seasons time like Jalen Johnson has done. KEEP

Mills - This guy has a won the title with Spurs, competes hard and can be a clutch shooter off the bench. If the plan was always to prioritize the youth movement by playing the likes of Forrest and Lundy ahead of Mills then why keep Mills on the team. To me I don’t understand why Wes Matthews gets minutes but not Mills. TRADE

Fernando - 3rd string center. He is never going to be more than that but every team needs one. KEEP

Gueye / Forrest / Lundy - Happy with their play in preseason / summer league and have future with the team. KEEP

I might not agree with everything you said but this definitely was well thought out. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

5 hours ago, TheBigETrain said:

Murray - Good player but clearly not a star. I feel his all round game has regressed since been paired with Trae. He used to be an above average rebounder and defender for a guard. Not anymore. I think Murray spurs player is better than Murray hawks player. However I would like to see him run this team without Trae on the team. It won’t happen though. Murray will get traded first before Trae. But my preference would be to KEEP

So why don't the lineups Murray leads without Trae on the floor with him, are worse than the lineups than when Trae plays without Murray?

Murray doesn't run this half court offense well at all. Posters have consistently talked about non-Trae minutes all season.

And Murray meshes better with Okongwu than Capela. Trae is the main guy that makes Capela an offensive threat. In fact, Trae's playmaking and getting people wide open shots on the perimeter is one of the biggest assets on the team.

I like Murray when he's playing aggressive. But you can't blame his regressing defense on Trae. Murray is good with "hand defense", in which he can get steals and deflections. But his awareness and physicality on defense is sub par. And in this season, you could arguably say that Trae has been better overall defensively.

I still say that Trae and Murray aren't the major issue with this squad. We're a small team across the board, but we're little AND soft on the frontline. Our frontline is the biggest issue on the team.

When Andre Drummond alone has 25 rebs and 24 points, that's not on our backcourt. That's on our frontcourt.

And that's on the coach for not stopping the bleeding.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Bruno rotting on the bench while we get dominated on the boards AGAIN, is the reason why this thread will stay alive.

Quin has the ability to fix this. He'll have to swallow some of his pride and admit that his precious defensive scheme does not work with this personnel.

A good coach would make the necessary adjustments.

The honeymoon is over for Quin Snyder.

https://images.app.goo.gl/Y78GL3S83Ji89euz5

 

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by TheNorthCydeRises

[Diesel]

6 hours ago, TheBigETrain said:

So many flawed players on this team. The roster construction has been terrible. Schlenk should have gone much sooner. And Fields seems too inexperienced / gun shy to make a move to shake up the team.

It is a current malaise that I don’t see much improvement coming. My thoughts on the roster and who we should keep or trade is as follows.

Young - He doesn’t know his limitations . Tries way too many unnecessary logo threes. Clearly doesn’t like to be challenged as seen with coach Nate and Lloyd Pierce. For someone with such great court awareness, his playmaking can be outstanding but far too often his decision making is bad and it results in far too many forced shots and ugly turnovers. I feel that despite all the assists, he still doesn’t make his teammates better. Who has really improved since Trae has run the team? Jalen Johnson might be the only one but that is more due to playing time rather than Trae’s influence. Out of the young players that has played with Trae, John Collins went backwards. Okongwu is treading water or heading in the same backwards direction. Hunter is the same. I feel this team current problems will continue while Trae remains on the team. Maybe that is far too harsh on Trae as he is a young player that is outstanding offensively. But as the Cavs are finding out with Donovan Mitchell, sometimes that talented player is still not the best for the team going forward. Sooner or later Trae is probably going to ask for a trade and I’m ready for this team to have a new leader. TRADE

Murray - Good player but clearly not a star. I feel his all round game has regressed since been paired with Trae. He used to be an above average rebounder and defender for a guard. Not anymore. I think Murray spurs player is better than Murray hawks player. However I would like to see him run this team without Trae on the team. It won’t happen though. Murray will get traded first before Trae. But my preference would be to KEEP.

Bogdanovic - The team’s 3rd best player after Trae and Dejounte. Great season coming off the bench, I feel his value is not going to get any higher and Hawks really need to take advantage of this and trade him. At age 31 he doesn’t fit the teams timeline. TRADE

Hunter - Way too inconsistent with both his play on the court and injuries. He needs to go asap or we will find another John Collins situation with Hunter whereby he is shopped around with no offers and he ends up being a cap dump trade.TRADE

Bey - I don’t mind him. He is like a more consistent Hunter that has better compete level. However I would be extremely nervous about paying him because I feel he has reached his ceiling as a player despite being only 24 years old. I’m not sure what the right contract number is for him. KEEP at the right price.

Capela - Another solid player. Probably the only one on the current roster that can actually play center. We know what we will get from Capela each night. 10 points , 10 rebounds and good D. Those role players can be valuable to have. KEEP

Okongwu - Major disappointment. Doesn’t want to compete hard. Gets abused too much by bigger guys. I don’t think he is a center and should be trialled at power forward or traded for a big man with better work ethic. Losing patience fast with him. He was told to work on his outside shot which to be fair he has, but his inside game has gone soft as a result. And I absolutely hate that for a big man. Not seeing the development and feel he has got complacent with his spot on the team so much so I’ll look around the league and see what we can get back for him. TRADE

Mathews / Matthews - Not their fault, but both play far too many minutes. They are a 11th or 12th man that is asked to play as a 7th or 8th man that is in the regular rotation. I don’t think Garrison has the talent to be in the regular rotation and Wes is simply just washed at his stage of his career. This is more a Quin Snyder problem. TRADE/WAIVE
Griffin - I know AJ Griffin is currently out with personal reasons but when available he should be playing ahead of Mathews / Matthews. I don’t know why since Snyder became head coach that Griffin went straight to DNP-CD doghouse after looking so promising under Nate. Hope he sorts out his personal situation soon. KEEP

Bufkin - I am actually quite happy that he is away from this bad team and can develop his game at College Park. Hopefully with patience he can show he can be a player in a couple of seasons time like Jalen Johnson has done. KEEP

Mills - This guy has a won the title with Spurs, competes hard and can be a clutch shooter off the bench. If the plan was always to prioritize the youth movement by playing the likes of Forrest and Lundy ahead of Mills then why keep Mills on the team. To me I don’t understand why Wes Matthews gets minutes but not Mills. TRADE

Fernando - 3rd string center. He is never going to be more than that but every team needs one. KEEP

Gueye / Forrest / Lundy - Happy with their play in preseason / summer league and have future with the team. KEEP

[macdaddy]

This season is a disaster so far.  There's signs that Quin knows what he's doing but lacks the talent to do it.  Lacks a lot of talent.  

[JeffS17]

7 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Bruno rotting on the bench while we get dominated on the boards AGAIN, is the reason why this thread will stay alive.

Quin has the ability to fix this. He'll have to swallow some of his pride and admit that his precious defensive scheme does not work with this personnel.

A good coach would make the necessary adjustments.

The honeymoon is over for Quin Snyder.

https://images.app.goo.gl/Y78GL3S83Ji89euz5

 

 

The fact we have a thread indicting Quin because he refuses to play Bruno Fernando is all you need to know about the talent level of this roster [which is not Quin's responsibility].

[kg01]

58 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

The fact we have a thread indicting Quin because he refuses to play Bruno Fernando is all you need to know about the talent level of this roster [which is not Quin's responsibility].

Facts.  I'm out on Laundry but I can only hope he lucks into a fix because I don't want more disruptions in the front office. 

 Iss'ok, kg.  Gonna be my job soon.  Mwahahaaaaa.... 

[JeffS17]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Facts.  I'm out on Laundry but I can only hope he lucks into a fix because I don't want more disruptions in the front office. 

 Iss'ok, kg.  Gonna be my job soon.  Mwahahaaaaa.... 

The thing that makes me hopeful for Landry is that he's young.  He'll likely improve with time at least.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

5 hours ago, macdaddy said:

This season is a disaster so far.  There's signs that Quin knows what he's doing but lacks the talent to do it.  Lacks a lot of talent.  

Only on the offensive side of the ball.

When he constantly tosses out the "door (matts)", he's illustrating that he doesn't have any creativity and doesn't want to deviate from his "system".

Quin seems like he has no clue on defense.  And he doesn't want to sacrifice the offense, in order to raise up the defense.

 

How many bigs have to play well above their averages when we lose, for Quin to realize that we must play bigger?

• Mark Williams ( Charlotte ) - 15 pts - 13 rebs
• Bam Adebayo ( Miami ) - 26 pts - 17 rebs
• Julius Randle ( NY Knicks ) - 29 pts - 10 rebs - 8 asst
• Tobias Harris ( Philly ) - 29 pts - 10 rebs . . . Embiid went for 32 and 8 in the same game
• Evan Mobley ( Cleveland ) - 17 pts - 19 rebs
• Giannis ( Milwaukee ) - 32 pts - 11 rebs - 10 asst
• Joel Embiid ( Philly ) - 38 pts - 14 rebs
• Pascal Siakam ( Toronto ) - 33 pts - 7 rebs - 7 asst
• Jarrett Allen ( Cleveland ) - 25 pts - 14 rebs
• Bismack Biyombo ( Memphis ) - 8 pts - 11 rebs ( 7 offensive )
• Andre Drummond ( Chicago ) - 25 pts - 24 rebs - 3 stls - 2 blks

This shit reads like a script straight from a horror movie.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

The fact we have a thread indicting Quin because he refuses to play Bruno Fernando is all you need to know about the talent level of this roster [which is not Quin's responsibility].

This is true.

But the fact that he's not using the only other big in the lineup, in favor of guys who should be coaches in a rec league, illustrates that he has no clue how to, ( or doesn't want to ) develop a system that actually fits his players.

We are getting destroyed with offensive rebounding and 2nd chance points.  And he does absolutely nothing to stop it.

Just toss in another guy to jack up 3s and hope we can shoot out way out of our problems.

Edited December 27, 2023 by TheNorthCydeRises