Marvin deserves to be flamed....

[Diesel]

LOL @ saying Marvin should "stop standing around". Did you forget who the coach was? His philosophy is ISO JJ left, ISO JJ right, ISO JJ up the middle while people stand around watching.

Marvin went from shooting 1-10 to 55-155 from 3 in one year. I think everyone but you would consider that a pretty dramatic improvement.

During this past season Marvin shot 61% on his inside attempts, up 10% from the 06-07 season. Again that is a big improvement.

In both cases he improved "within the system" and he obviously intends to continue to improve. Maybe if you got over your drinking problem you would be able to acknowlege the improvement he has made.

In your quickness to find a picture, i see you forgot to mention that Marvin also drove the lane less... went to the free throw line less and for all practical purposes is dependent on Joe Cool to pass him the ball. Our offense needs movement. Marvin being a standstill Shooter is not movement. You say our offense is designed to have somebody (I take it the 3) stand around while Iso Joe is in effect? The funny thing Ex is that we had 21 games without Marvin. And we all noticed that when Flip got in the game, we had ball movement. Iso Joe was not the order of the day. Because Flip refused to be that standstill Jump shooter when he was on the floor. Instead, he moved, he made himself available as a ball handler... and Joe wasn't a standstill jump shooter either. He moved. and we played some pretty good basketball.

[Diesel]

Is the 34% of minutes that Crawful spent at PG significant to you too or does that dodge not fit into the agenda at hand?

Well, it's as significant as what team he played for and what PG did they have??

If you have Monte Ellis on crutches.

If you have CJ Watson as the only other choice for PG....

If you have SGs Morrow, Jackson, and Azubike..

Then 34% at the point is not unexpected. Especially on a team that never has cared about classical positions so much. They had to use what they had.

[frankthetank966]

I think he is correct in saying what he did. Pretty much he said he wants to improve. But just b/c he becomes more aggressive doesnt translate into improvement or success. He is a sneaky player...

[exodus]

In your quickness to find a picture, i see you forgot to mention that Marvin also drove the lane less... went to the free throw line less and for all practical purposes is dependent on Joe Cool to pass him the ball. Our offense needs movement. Marvin being a standstill Shooter is not movement. You say our offense is designed to have somebody (I take it the 3) stand around while Iso Joe is in effect? The funny thing Ex is that we had 21 games without Marvin. And we all noticed that when Flip got in the game, we had ball movement. Iso Joe was not the order of the day. Because Flip refused to be that standstill Jump shooter when he was on the floor. Instead, he moved, he made himself available as a ball handler... and Joe wasn't a standstill jump shooter either. He moved. and we played some pretty good basketball.

Yet again you show your inability to understand basic math. Both Smith and Marvin saw they fg attempts and ft attempts go down due to Bibby and Flip taking a lot of shots.I don't see you talking about Smith being less aggressive. I wonder why.

[Diesel]

Yet again you show your inability to understand basic math. Both Smith and Marvin saw they fg attempts and ft attempts go down due to Bibby and Flip taking a lot of shots.I don't see you talking about Smith being less aggressive. I wonder why.

I don't talk about Smith becoming less aggressive because I saw less of him on the perimeter and more of him driving the lane. And I hope to see even more of that "aggressiveness". Your problem is you'd rather focus on what you think ought to happen than what is really happening. Marvin sits at the perimeter and just sits there. Remember, he only attempted 10 three point shots 2 years ago. Last year, he's attempting over 150. That doesn't happen unless you spend most of your time at the perimeter. In a time when our team suffers because we shoot too much from outside, don't you think Marvin being a guy who can get to the FT line should be driving more? Again, you talk about what you think should happen instead of what really is happening. Why do you think Flip jumped Marvin as an option? Marvin is a starter and has been for the last 3 years. Development should have lead to him being our outright 4th option... however, when you look at the numbers, Flip just BYPASSED Marvin. The reason being is because Flip had the good sense to see that if he really wanted to help our offense, he had to be a guy who was not afraid to put the ball on the floor and do stuff on the inside while Marvin is sitting on the outside waiting for somebody to throw it to him.

[justin31]

i don't think marvin's ability to "move" is the next step in his development. we run a stagnant offense; it's not his fault he's used as a decoy to spread the floor for joe.

[exodus]

I don't talk about Smith becoming less aggressive because I saw less of him on the perimeter and more of him driving the lane. And I hope to see even more of that "aggressiveness". Your problem is you'd rather focus on what you think ought to happen than what is really happening. Marvin sits at the perimeter and just sits there. Remember, he only attempted 10 three point shots 2 years ago. Last year, he's attempting over 150. That doesn't happen unless you spend most of your time at the perimeter. In a time when our team suffers because we shoot too much from outside, don't you think Marvin being a guy who can get to the FT line should be driving more? Again, you talk about what you think should happen instead of what really is happening. Why do you think Flip jumped Marvin as an option? Marvin is a starter and has been for the last 3 years. Development should have lead to him being our outright 4th option... however, when you look at the numbers, Flip just BYPASSED Marvin. The reason being is because Flip had the good sense to see that if he really wanted to help our offense, he had to be a guy who was not afraid to put the ball on the floor and do stuff on the inside while Marvin is sitting on the outside waiting for somebody to throw it to him.

LOL @ Flip bypassing Marvin. Flip only averaged 2 assists per game. :laughing5:

Yet again with the incomprehensible Diesel Math. Both Smith and Marvin saw a similar decline in foul shots, yet somehow you conclude that Smith drove more and your only evidence is your hate tainted opinion.

During this past season Smith scored 8.4 ppg inside shooting 65% on his inside attempts.

http://www.82games.com/0809/08ATL11.HTM

During the previous year Smith scored 9.0 ppg inside shooting 62%.

http://www.82games.com/0708/07ATL11A.HTM

So Smith scored less inside in spite of the fact that he shot a better percentage. He got to the line less. There is nothing to suggest that he drove more often other than "it's true because Diesel says so".

I can play that game too. Marvin drove more because I say so. So there.

Edited October 10, 2009 by exodus

[RedDawg#8]

1. Why are we bringing up Flip? He isnt here anymore. He plays for Charlotte. Crawford IS NOT Flip. Crawford IS Crawford.

2. If what Marvin, or any other player does leads to our team being succesful, then why complain. When we stop improving as a team is when we should worry about individuals who might be holding us back.

3. Putting Crawford in the starting line-up with Joe DOES NOT gauruntee that we will be a better team. There is a thing called CHEMISTRY that we have in our starting 5 that almost no other team in the NBA has coming into this year. (Boston is the only other team i can think of)

4. Stop acting as if Marv's injury led to more success without mentioning how we played the majority of those games at HOME when he was out. We had one of the leagues best home records last year but a very mediocre road record.

5. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH HAVING A GOOD PLAYER COME OFF THE BENCH! even if he may be a better individual player than somebody in the starting lineup. i.e. Manu Ginobli, Jason Terry, Ben Gordon (when with bulls), Pietrus (behind Lee last year), Odom (Better than Bynum, but Bynum gives them a better ovr line-up when Gasol plays PF), Illgauskus (better than Varajeo, but 2 C's is unneccesary), Rasheed (behind Perkins), etc, ETC.

You dont just throw your 5 best individual players on the court because they are the most talented. doing this can lead to one or more players playing out of position and effectively working against your team (i.e. last years Piston's: A.I, Stuckey, Hamilton, Prince, Wallace line-up). Its better to just have more firepower off the bench then force somebody into the starting line-up.

At the end of the day, Bibby is our best PG, Joe SG,Marv our best SF, Josh our best PF, and Horford our best C. Crawford is OUR 2nd best SG/PG. dont force him into the starting unit because he is a B+ SG and Marv is a B- SF.

[gsuteke]

the over/under on Diesel having a negative 50 "reputation" rating is opening night.

[jy23]

This is still going on? So...........................................................................how bout them hawks................................anybody hear about what their doing with the moon.......................I heard that paranormal activity is going nationwide, thats good huh dol............................................................lindsey lohan looks bad..................................................i heard bet picked up The Game........................................................um.........................Tiger Woods.......................................?????????????

[Diesel]

i don't think marvin's ability to "move" is the next step in his development. we run a stagnant offense; it's not his fault he's used as a decoy to spread the floor for joe.

Our offense loses some of it's stagnation when Marvin is not playing. Why is that?

[Diesel]

1. Why are we bringing up Flip? He isnt here anymore. He plays for Charlotte. Crawford IS NOT Flip. Crawford IS Crawford.

2. If what Marvin, or any other player does leads to our team being succesful, then why complain. When we stop improving as a team is when we should worry about individuals who might be holding us back.

3. Putting Crawford in the starting line-up with Joe DOES NOT gauruntee that we will be a better team. There is a thing called CHEMISTRY that we have in our starting 5 that almost no other team in the NBA has coming into this year. (Boston is the only other team i can think of)

4. Stop acting as if Marv's injury led to more success without mentioning how we played the majority of those games at HOME when he was out. We had one of the leagues best home records last year but a very mediocre road record.

5. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH HAVING A GOOD PLAYER COME OFF THE BENCH! even if he may be a better individual player than somebody in the starting lineup. i.e. Manu Ginobli, Jason Terry, Ben Gordon (when with bulls), Pietrus (behind Lee last year), Odom (Better than Bynum, but Bynum gives them a better ovr line-up when Gasol plays PF), Illgauskus (better than Varajeo, but 2 C's is unneccesary), Rasheed (behind Perkins), etc, ETC.

You dont just throw your 5 best individual players on the court because they are the most talented. doing this can lead to one or more players playing out of position and effectively working against your team (i.e. last years Piston's: A.I, Stuckey, Hamilton, Prince, Wallace line-up). Its better to just have more firepower off the bench then force somebody into the starting line-up.

At the end of the day, Bibby is our best PG, Joe SG,Marv our best SF, Josh our best PF, and Horford our best C. Crawford is OUR 2nd best SG/PG. dont force him into the starting unit because he is a B+ SG and Marv is a B- SF.

1. Flip is only a precursor to Crawford. Just like Flip bypassed Marvin as an option in our offense, so will Crawford... and people will still try to sell this idea that it's our offense that dictates who plays what option. However, the truth is, it';s the players. When Joe moves to the 3, he doesn't automatically become a 4th option like Marvin.

2. If you think that we are improving as a team because of maturity, you're mistaken. We're improving as a team because we are getting better players around Joe. First it was Bibby and a strong Rookie year from Horford. Next it was the addition of Flip and Mo. This year it will be Crawford and Smith and Collins. That's not maturing into improvement as you expressed... However, that's improvement by addition. The fact that Marvin is not improving "OVERALL" is a big hint that he's not contributing to our improvement. For three years, I have heard the same wrong reports about how we couldn't afford to sit Marvin because he plays such a vital role to our team's improvement. However, since that time it has taken us going out to get better players that has been the catalyst of our improvement. It makes it clear that Marvin's role in our improvement is meaningless... We even seen that last year when Marvin was hurt. Marvin went out and we didn't miss him. Offensively, our offense played with better chemistry.

3. I like Chemistry. Classically, you can tell how chemistry really works. LIke Hakeem Olajuwon and a team full of ball handlers and outside shooters = great Chemistry. Well, let us talk about Chemistry of the Hawks. What do you think would work better... Joe Johnson and 3 guys on the perimeter (Marvin, Josh, and Bibs) and one guy in the high post (Al)...and nobody willing to drive the lane with the ball playing ISO Joe... or Crawford with Joe in the midrange, Bibs and Smoove on the perimeter and Al in the High Post... with Crawford being willing to drive and dish. It's very simple... we have no low post game. So we have to have a pseudo low post game. That means having Smoove and Crawford drive and when Challenged having a guy like Crawford either draw the foul or dish out to an open Man. Marvin is just another set of hands asking for the ball while Joe dribbles endlessly. In fact, Marvin is not going to ask for the ball, he's just going to sit there and wait for somebody to throw it to him. What's better chemistry? The stagnation of Iso Joe or having a ball handler who can get the whole team involved?

4 I didn't say that Marvin's absence led to success. I said that we didn't miss Marvin. Had Marvin been a vital cog on the wheel, we wouldn't have been able to function without him. Well, Marvin the " defensive standout" went down and guess what... Our defense got better. Our offensive didn't miss a beat.... In fact, there was a good flow to our offense. We still lost to strong teams. However, we did have a long streak in the absence of Marvin. We still played some tough teams tight and beat some good teams in the absence of Marvin.

5. I want to return your favor: THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH HAVING A GOOD PLAYER COME OFF THE BENCH!. Apply that to Marvin.

[justin31]

Our offense loses some of it's stagnation when Marvin is not playing. Why is that?

i don't think it loses stagnation when we plug maurice evans in to sit in the corner all day. please don't argue that he makes our offense more fluid with his inability to do anything BUT sit in the corner and take 3s.

[exodus]

. The fact that Marvin is not improving "OVERALL" is a big hint that he's not contributing to our improvement.

Going from 1-10 from three to 55-155 from three in one year isn't improving? Increasing his inside scoring percentage by 10% in two years isn't improving? Setting his career high in rebounding isn't improving?

[EazyRoc]

Why bother ? When you prove Diesel wrong with factual information, he then proceeds to argue his opinion as if it's fact.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I guess Marvin reads "the Squawk". Interesting preseason game from him vs the Pistons.

- he was responsible for 12 of the Hawks first 14 points ( 8 points and 2 assists )

- he has 14 points at halftime, with only 4 of those points being jumpshots. ( even caught an alley oop from JJ )

- went to the line 6 times.

So I guess Diesel needs to keep talking ish about Marvin, so that we'll get these types of games from him in the regular season.

[Peoriabird]

So I guess Diesel needs to keep talking ish about Marvin, so that we'll get these types of games from him in the regular season.

If this is the case then he needs to shift his hatred to Al & Bibby

[Diesel]

Going from 1-10 from three to 55-155 from three in one year isn't improving? Increasing his inside scoring percentage by 10% in two years isn't improving? Setting his career high in rebounding isn't improving?

I used All caps on OVERALL just for you... and you still missed it.

Marvin improved his three point shooting... But his ppg, fta, and fg% went DOWN... That's a big part of the OVERALL. that I all capped for you before.

[Diesel]

I guess Marvin reads "the Squawk". Interesting preseason game from him vs the Pistons.

- he was responsible for 12 of the Hawks first 14 points ( 8 points and 2 assists )

- he has 14 points at halftime, with only 4 of those points being jumpshots. ( even caught an alley oop from JJ )

- went to the line 6 times.

So I guess Diesel needs to keep talking ish about Marvin, so that we'll get these types of games from him in the regular season.

There are some key words you mentioned Northcyde... Let me point them out to you:

1. PRESEASON.

Also note that Teague and Hunter were amoung our top scorers... Because it's Preseason.

2. 14 Points in the first half - 19 points overall. That means 5 Points in the second. = Nothing has changed.

But I hope Marvin can muster up some big games in the Regular Season when it counts.

[Peoriabird]

There are some key words you mentioned Northcyde... Let me point them out to you:

1. PRESEASON.

Also note that Teague and Hunter were amoung our top scorers... Because it's Preseason.

2. 14 Points in the first half - 19 points overall. That means 5 Points in the second. = Nothing has changed.

But I hope Marvin can muster up some big games in the Regular Season when it counts.

We need to upgrade our anti-virus software for this site!