Merged: Warriors looking to trade Monta Ellis for a big

[GABALLA]

I posted this trade on June 1st. Josh Smith, Marvin Williams, and Zaza for Monta and Biedrins. They get a wing in Marvin, a wing that can play some PF in Josh, and a big in Zaza. They get a little of everything and they get to unload there 2 biggest contracts. Get her done Sund

http://www.hawksquawk.net/community/index.php/topic/359912-josh-smith-trade-idea/

They get better we get worst. How do you not see that?

[Seano]

I'm not really all that down with any Monta Ellis trade for the reasons that have been stated in this thread, namely that he is a shoot first guy who if his shot isn't falling will kill ya, because he brings very little else to the table. I would hate to trade someone like Smoove for that, and Horford???? That's just laughable, as in NO FRICKEN WAY.

It's just highly ironic to me that we could have had this guy for nothing more than the cost of a 2nd round pick. We brought Monta in prior to the 2005 draft and were supposedly quite high on him as being one of the best pure shooters in the draft, but BK elected to go with the bigger and much more seasoned Salim Stoudamire at #31, and Ellis went nine picks later to the Warriors, and now we're talking about trading one of our better players for a guy we could have had for virtually nothing at all.

I can't really fault BK on that one though. Well I can, but I won't. The main reason Monta lasted that long was his size, as he was seriously tiny coming out of high school in Mississippi. I mean the dude probably weighed 160 pounds max dripping wet, and there were lots and lots of doubts about the ability for his body to hold up given the rigors of the NBA game.

[TRUEINTELLECTPLAYA]

They get better we get worst. How do you not see that?

Because I don't have to see your opinion as fact. I think we get better.

PG Monta/Teague

SG Joe/Kirk

SF

PF Al

C Biedrins

I'll take it.

[Seano]

You can put Monta down as one of the poster children for why 2nd round picks DO matter.

[yungsta]

i was on the sixers board checking out what people though about the iggy and monta ellis trade and i came across this rant from a warriors fan

Warriors fan here and just reading some opinions from Philly fans. I'd feel bad for you if this trade goes down. Monta Ellis is nothing more than an undersized shooting guard. Ellis was 8th in the league in scoring (24.1), but he lead the league in field goal attempts per game (20.1) as well as minutes per game (40.3). Really not that proficient of a player. If you gave Lou Williams that kind of minutes and freedom to take shots, I'm pretty sure he can average 24 a game.

So why is Ellis not proficient? Because he's a jump shooter which makes him unlikely to get to the free throw line at a high rate. If you look at his game log, you'll see big fluctuations in his scoring output. An example (just taking a 10 game stretch)....16, 20, 37, 27, 15, 10, 18, 8, 26 and 15. He's a volume shooter that doesn't play much defense and more often than not, freezes out his teammates with his constant pounding of the ball. In 2008, during his moped accident season, the Warriors won 29 games. The following season, he came back relatively healthy and the team won 26 games. At best, he's a 6th man like a Barbosa, Jason Terry, Lou Williams, Eddie House, Ben Gordon or Toney Douglas. Someone to have off the bench for instant offense. Take into consideration that this guy is making $11M a year and you have someone who is slightly overpaid. Good luck with him.

Edited June 7, 2011 by yungsta

[sturt]

Because I don't have to see your opinion as fact. I think we get better.

PG Monta/Teague

SG Joe/Kirk

SF

PF Al

C Biedrins

I'll take it.

Wow. Really?

Not sure what's funnier to me... the trade, or your opinion of your trade, or how evident it is that the UserID was a necessary choice since we wouldn't be so sure otherwise.

Okay, that was harsh.

But really? You'd take that trade?

Edited June 7, 2011 by sturt

[JohnnyCASH]

i was on the sixers board checking out what people though about the iggy and monta ellis trade and i came across this rant from a warriors fan

that dude just described crawford in a nut shell

[yungsta]

Here is what Hollinger says about Ellis:

+ Super quick guard who loves to push tempo and finish in transition.

+ Defensive ball hawk but gambles too much and lacks size for two.

+ Mediocre outside shooter who often shoots contested Js early in shot clock.

Ellis is talented enough that he may eventually become very valuable, but at the moment he is the league's most overrated player. He plays like he learned the game from watching Allen Iverson tapes, and I don't mean that as a compliment. Probably no player in the league took more ill-advised jump shots early in the shot clock, a particular problem in this case because Ellis isn't a good jump shooter -- he made only 33.8 percent of his 3s and 38.1 percent of his long 2s.

Ellis finished with a gaudy scoring average because he played a lot of minutes on a fast-paced team, but he was 47th among shooting guards in both TS% and pure point rating. Basically, he dribbles around looking for a shot unless circumstances force him to pass.

The most damning stat, however, is how much better the team played without him. Golden State outscored its opponents quite comfortably as long as Ellis wasn't around, and finished a whopping 11.4 points per 100 possessions better without Ellis -- giving him the single worst differential in basketball.

WE DO NOT WANT THIS GUY

[TheNorthCydeRises]

So who do we trade Josh for? Lebron? Dirk?

In other words . . what is the ideal, realistic trade we could do involving Smith?

As far as Monta goes, he had his most efficient year as a player, ironically, when he got someone else beside him who could pick up the scoring slack.

I still think it's funny that people have confidence in Teague, despite him being a true PG, but don't trust Monta for the same reason.

[Eddielives]

Any trade the Hawks do better involve resolving our 2 power forward situation with a defensive, rebounding and if possible scoring center. We don't need a undersized shooting guard.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

That should read . . . despite Teague NOT being a true PG that makes people better.

[capstone21]

I agree with that too. I believe Horf is really good but I don't think he brings the complete skillset we need and his constant whining about position and his disappearing act really makes me want to move him for a need and if he can take Marvin too.. GREAT!!!

Smith did not appear until the last 2 games of the playoffs. If one of the two has to go it should be Smith.

[TRUEINTELLECTPLAYA]

That should read . . . despite Teague NOT being a true PG that makes people better.

Teague and Monta are very close to me, Monta is a bigger better version. I like Teague as a player, no doubt, but at the same time I would not mind him backing up Monta and learning from him.

Also, I am not a big Biedrins supporter because of his contract but the dude can rebound no doubt about that, and boy is it obvious that we need someone that will do that.

[capstone21]

Teague and Monta are very close to me, Monta is a bigger better version. I like Teague as a player, no doubt, but at the same time I would not mind him backing up Monta and learning from him.

Also, I am not a big Biedrins supporter because of his contract but the dude can rebound no doubt about that, and boy is it obvious that we need someone that will do that.

I don't want Teague to become another monta. He needs to learn to be more of a point guard. Running an offense...getting others involved. You are def not going to learn that from watching Ellis

Bringing Ellis here only makes us an even more iso team.

[GameTime]

I don't want Teague to become another monta. He needs to learn to be more of a point guard. Running an offense...getting others involved. You are def not going to learn that from watching Ellis

Bringing Ellis here only makes us an even more iso team.

As constructed I don't see the team respecting Teague to completely run the offense.

[GameTime]

Smith did not appear until the last 2 games of the playoffs. If one of the two has to go it should be Smith.

Huh? Horf disappeared the second half of the season and the playoffs. Without Smith we wouldn't have beat Orlando.

Edited June 7, 2011 by GameTime

[Seano]

I don't want Teague to become another monta. He needs to learn to be more of a point guard. Running an offense...getting others involved. You are def not going to learn that from watching Ellis

Bringing Ellis here only makes us an even more iso team.

Yep. Agree 100%.

[hawkman]

that dude just described crawford in a nut shell

:laugh: at your sig man!

[AHF]

Monta is better than Teague but he is one of those players that is exceptionally difficult to build a winner around. I may not trust Teague fully but I don't have to give up Horford or Josh for him. I would not trade our only us bigs for an undersized, not particularly efficient SG.

[capstone21]

As constructed I don't see the team respecting Teague to completely run the offense.

That's fine...I don't totally trust him to run the team either but Monta doesn't help the situation