Has ferry made you regret the Johnson trade with the way the season is going?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

And Klay Thompson is a RFA in the summer of 2015.

[Admin]

Brooklyn has the russian connection owner that should guarantee that we don't see their first and the second is nothing to get excited about.

If Ferry turns that 2nd into another productive player then I'll be excited about it. Maybe we won't swap 1sts with them but to get Bebe, Muscala and another 2nd round pick while getting out of owing Joe 20 million a season I'm pretty happy with that.

[tbhawksfan]

If Ferry turns that 2nd into another productive player then I'll be excited about it. Maybe we won't swap 1sts with them but to get Bebe, Muscala and another 2nd round pick while getting out of owing Joe 20 million a season I'm pretty happy with that.

Me too. Don't expect much from seconds with our history and the odds, but I'm all for the JJ trade, just not so sure about some of the things he has or hasn't done since

[Guest]

They have significantly less actually. Paul George's max extension is going to increase from 25% of the best cap projections (~16 mil) to 30% of the cap (~19 mil) due to the Rose provision if he (likely) makes another All-NBA team. If they renounce all their free agents excluding Lance then they are already at ~72 mil in payroll+empty roster charges which again by the best cap projection leaves them at only ~3 million below the tax. They can double that amount by waiving Scola but you are still looking at less than 7 million in space to resign Stephenson before they hit the tax...that is not enough wiggle room for a player that is likely going to be looking at what Tyreke Evans got ( 4yrs 45mil) for his next contract. Worse, they don't have RFA rights on him to match any deal he ends up with so with this you start to understand the shrewdness of the Evan Turner trade and its greater implication.

And with OKC you are absolutely correct, they weren't even 3 months removed from a Finals appearance before they traded Harden one year before any extension would kick in because they feared the tax that much. And NorthCyde doesn't realize that the repeater tax is based on paying the tax in any 3 out of 4 years, dipping below for a season only to go back up will not save you.

@MaceCase Thanks for the clarification on the Indiana salary stuff.

Edited March 12, 2014 by JayBirdHawk

[Diesel]

I just have to comment that while I wanted us to get Brooks or Green in the Joe trade let's don't beat around the bush here: there's no doubt Ferry called every team trying to find a deal for Joe and he took the best deal out there. We can argue that maybe he could have tried to hardball the Nets for longer but something tells me the Nets told him that was their best deal and if he didn't take it then they were going to move on and trade for someone else.

I don't see how you can blame Ferry for that trade. I loved Joe when he was here but you could already start to see the signs of his decline and the fact we're not paying full max money for his declining years is manna from heaven.

Northcyde is correct that if we had let Joe walk instead of giving him the max deal we still wouldn't have had enough cap room to go after someone and he's right that the A$G never made a MLE signing to help push that old core. But that doesn't change the fact that trading Joe when we did was by far the best move for the franchise Ferry could have made.

Just to add to what you are saying....food for thought if you will. I have read in more than 2 places that Billy King called and congratulated Ferry on getting the job as GM... then proposed the trade to Ferry. To me that suggests that Ferry may not have had his phone on speed dialing all the other GMs... moreover, it sounds like King got the deal he wanted because when Marshon Brooks name was floated by Ferry, it was immediately dismissed.

So I believe what really happened was that Ferry Jumped at the chance to trade Joe to the first guy who called him.

That is not due diligence.

[DJlaysitup]

As BK proved it's easier to be a demolition expert than an architect. Personally I see it as the JJ move got us a new regime and another chance. We still have owners who brag about finding a dime in the parking lot though.

O.T., will be interesting to see if getting Bynum does Indy any good.

[Diesel]

Those are actually perfect examples to what I am talking about.

Look at OKC. They hit 3 home runs in Durant, Westbrook, and Harden . . and hit a double in Ibaka. You can't do much better than what they did in those 3 drafts.But when came time to secure their future with those 4, they played around with Harden, after locking up Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka. So they let Harden go. They even got a lot in return in that trade. But what they'll get, are mainly role players.

Now look what they have created. They elevated a periodically mediocre team in Houston ( that had to pull a jack move to get Omer Asik and Jeremy Lin . . whom they were going to promote as the star of the team ), and just gave the a superstar talent in Harden. And that superstar talent was good enough to make them attractive enough to get the biggest free agent prize last year in Dwight Howard.

All to keep from paying just a little Luxury Tax money.

So instead of OKC keeping Harden, and going into battle with a superstar, and 2 bonafide all-stars, and a defensive star for the next 4 5 years . . they've immediately elevated a conference rival to their level ( and arguably above them ), and put them in position to block OKC from even reaching the WC Finals, forget about the NBA Finals.

Same goes with Indiana. If they feel that they can't afford to go into the Luxury Tax to maintain a championship level team, they simply deserve what may happen to them in the future. They will simply open the door for big market teams like Chicago, LA, or even the Knicks to improve their teams.

The rest of the NBA aren't going to play by the same rules of cap restraint, just because you have teams that refuse to go into the Luxury Tax to win a title.

The problem that some of the Hawks fans have is that they don't understand that some teams owners are in it to WIN and some are in it to Make Money. If you want to MAKE MONEY you avoid the luxury tax at all costs. IF you are in it to win, you do what it takes to win.

Don't talk about INDY... They are owned by 2 Billionaire Brothers. They piss 3 Million dollars on any given weekend.

OKC is owned by The Professional Basketball Club, LLC. They are a group of Oklahoma City businessmen who represent a wide variety of local and national business interests.

The Deal is that Businessmen, avoid the luxury tax and get the ~3 million dollars from the LT at the end of the year.

But what happens when you want to win?

Food for thought. Here are the teams who will be paying the luxury tax:

Miami ($13,346,242), Brooklyn ($12,883,647), New York ($9,962,406), Chicago ($3,932,336) and Boston ($1,181,640).

If you take injury off the table, 3 of these teams would be title contenders.

In Fact, teams that won a title while paying the LT.... Miami, Dallas, Los Angeles, Boston and the Spurs.

[DJlaysitup]

The problem that some of the Hawks fans have is that they don't understand that some teams owners are in it to WIN and some are in it to Make Money. If you want to MAKE MONEY you avoid the luxury tax at all costs. IF you are in it to win, you do what it takes to win.

Don't talk about INDY... They are owned by 2 Billionaire Brothers. They piss 3 Million dollars on any given weekend.

OKC is owned by The Professional Basketball Club, LLC. They are a group of Oklahoma City businessmen who represent a wide variety of local and national business interests.

The Deal is that Businessmen, avoid the luxury tax and get the ~3 million dollars from the LT at the end of the year.

But what happens when you want to win?

Food for thought. Here are the teams who will be paying the luxury tax:

Miami ($13,346,242), Brooklyn ($12,883,647), New York ($9,962,406), Chicago ($3,932,336) and Boston ($1,181,640).

If you take injury off the table, 3 of these teams would be title contenders.

In Fact, teams that won a title while paying the LT.... Miami, Dallas, Los Angeles, Boston and the Spurs.

So basically what you are saying is "Money talks and Capspace walks".

[Diesel]

Yes that would have been brilliant. We amnesty Joe owing him $100 million and you know what could have easily happened? One of the teams under the cap could have put in a cheap bid on him and WE would have owed him the remaining balance. So we'd not have Joe and we'd still have to pay a large portion of his salary through 2016. Unless you just assume that not a single team would have placed a bid on him for a partial waiver claim. Or you assume someone would have put in a full waiver claim to pay him the full amount, which I highly doubt.

BTW it's not like we got nothing out of him. Assuming that these guys pan out, we were able to get Muscala and Bebe from the pick we got from the Nets (by trading Shane Larkin). Those guys may never amount to anything, but we did get some good young talent and still have the right to swap picks this year and next plus have a 2nd in 2017 owed to us.

One of the things that you might not have known about the Amnesty process is that there's a bid that comes after the Amnesty. It allows the player to be up for grabs by all teams... That bid takes money off of how much we would have owed the player. For example, when Louis Scola was Amnestied by Houston, Phoenix bid on him and paid 13.5K for him.

So basically what you are saying is "Money talks and Capspace walks".

I've never seen capspace make a layup.

[NBASupes]

I hate this organzation.

[MaceCase]

One of the things that you might not have known about the Amnesty process is that there's a bid that comes after the Amnesty. It allows the player to be up for grabs by all teams... That bid takes money off of how much we would have owed the player. For example, when Louis Scola was Amnestied by Houston, Phoenix bid on him and paid 13.5K for him.

13.5K? Oh that just means that Houston is still paying him $30,660,866 then. God bless Phoenix for taking that burden off of them.

In all seriousness, Houston is still paying 17 mil of the 30 mil they owed Scola. If you think a team under the cap would have put in a bid for Joe at 44 million to pay the same percentage of Joe's contract that Phoenix did for Scola before trading him then god bless you.

[Admin]

One of the things that you might not have known about the Amnesty process is that there's a bid that comes after the Amnesty. It allows the player to be up for grabs by all teams... That bid takes money off of how much we would have owed the player. For example, when Louis Scola was Amnestied by Houston, Phoenix bid on him and paid 13.5K for him. I've never seen capspace make a layup.

I clearly mentioned teams bidding on him. Problem is that bid may have gotten to 8 million or so at most (being generous here) since only teams under the cap could bid on him. Leaving us with an enormous hold on our books through 2016. We'd have been better off keeping JJ than amnestying him then.

[Sothron]

Just to add to what you are saying....food for thought if you will. I have read in more than 2 places that Billy King called and congratulated Ferry on getting the job as GM... then proposed the trade to Ferry. To me that suggests that Ferry may not have had his phone on speed dialing all the other GMs... moreover, it sounds like King got the deal he wanted because when Marshon Brooks name was floated by Ferry, it was immediately dismissed.

So I believe what really happened was that Ferry Jumped at the chance to trade Joe to the first guy who called him.

That is not due diligence.

I'm not doubting that you read that their BK was the one who initiated the conversation but do you really think DF wouldn't have canvased other teams to see what the trade market was first before agreeing to the deal?

[MaceCase]

Of course not, Sothron. Instead of Danny going:"hey RC, Mitch, Pat, Larry, Kahn you especially etc. I got BK on the other line.....no not that BK, how could I be replacing him? He was fired a century ago, anyway BK has an offer on the table for Joe...yes THAT Joe and I wanted to see what you guys might be willing to offer instead.....hello? Helloooo?"He just went: "omg, omg, omg, omg! Yes, yes, yes, yes."

[Diesel]

I'm not doubting that you read that their BK was the one who initiated the conversation but do you really think DF wouldn't have canvased other teams to see what the trade market was first before agreeing to the deal?

It's speculation either way. However, Joe was traded within Ferry's first week on the job. King said that he called Ferry to congratulate him on the new Job. It sounds like Ferry Jumped at the first deal he saw.

[Ryaan]

When JJ plays like a superstar I regret it, when he doesn't in thankful. He plays less like a superstar than he does, therefore I don't

[Guest]

It's speculation either way. However, Joe was traded within Ferry's first week on the job. King said that he called Ferry to congratulate him on the new Job. It sounds like Ferry Jumped at the first deal he saw.

Since it's all speculation - I will speculate that it was the ONLY deal he saw after his due diligence of checking with other teams. Edited March 13, 2014 by JayBirdHawk

[Admin]

It's speculation either way. However, Joe was traded within Ferry's first week on the job. King said that he called Ferry to congratulate him on the new Job. It sounds like Ferry Jumped at the first deal he saw.

When a super hot woman calls you up out of the blue and says she wants to hook up with you, you don't go looking for an even hotter woman, you accept and say thank you ma'am may I have another!

[macdaddy]

When a super hot woman calls you up out of the blue and says she wants to hook up with you, you don't go looking for an even hotter woman, you accept and say thank you ma'am may I have another!

Geez man. Please come up with an analogy I can relate to. I have no idea what you are talking about here.

[Admin]

Geez man. Please come up with an analogy I can relate to. I have no idea what you are talking about here.

Haha I didn't say I can relate either. But I can fantasize about the possibility haha