Drop Off

[benhillboy]

 Our Hawks will have lost as many regular season games well before the All-Star break as we did all last season.  I can't remember  a 60-win team that stayed mostly in tact dropping off so far the next season.  I knew DeMarre and Pero's departure would hurt the team, but in hindsight certainly not this much.  

Those two being gone aren't nearly as damaging to the on-court product as the obvious degradation of play from Al, Jeff, and Kyle.  But Coach Bud has also gone from COTY to average.  

Preparation, energy, style, and substitutions were rarely in question last year.  This year it's like wtf.  He also has to be taken to task for Mack, Moose, and Edy not contributing and Dennis' game staying stagnant for the most part.

If this year's edition could play the 14-15 Hawks they'd get swept in a series by an 15 point average.  I expected a slight drop off but this sh@t is ill.

[pimp]

The Hawks are kind of like a rookie Pitcher that was mowing down batters left and right when the first time he faced them.
Then , the next time through the league, everyone has a scouting report on the pitcher, and he starts getting knocked around a bit...

There are a lot ofother  reasons for the big drop off
Lack of ball movement compared to last season. Lack of effort as well.
Teague has been mediocre
Dennis hasn't shown much improverment over last season 
Korver this season is playing the exact opposite of how he played last season  / Yet Bud sticks with him no matter what.
Bazemore is no DMC.  plays hard but out of control

Horford , Tiago and Mike Scott are the among the very worst at defensive rebounding at their postions.
I'm not even exaggerating .. Horford is ranked # 50 out of 59 centers in the league at DRR , Splitter is next to last. Scout is 64 out of 69 PFs
Robin Lopez and Hibbert are  the only starting Centers that are worst than Al. And  he's 6th worst among starting power fowards
That's not so elite...

• DRR: Defensive rebound rate
• REBR: Rebound Rate - the percentage of missed shots that a player rebounds. Rebound Rate = (100 x (Rebounds x Team Minutes)) divided by [Player Minutes x (Team Rebounds + Opponent Rebounds)]

44	Willie Cauley-Stein, SAC	33	19.8	.602	7.3	10.0	10.7	11.4	18.9	15.3	15.56	48.3	1.6
	Brook Lopez, BKN	48	33.5	.546	7.1	10.1	25.6	9.4	18.9	14.1	21.84	269.6	9.0
46	Cody Zeller, CHA	40	24.8	.562	8.9	9.4	14.9	7.9	18.6	13.1	15.20	68.0	2.3
47	Kosta Koufos, SAC	46	19.8	.540	4.1	9.7	13.9	12.6	18.4	15.6	14.52	53.3	1.8
48	Jahlil Okafor, PHI	42	30.6	.521	5.8	11.2	24.6	8.0	18.1	13.0	16.83	119.4	4.0
49	Timofey Mozgov, CLE	43	17.7	.567	6.2	14.0	15.9	9.4	17.8	13.7	14.17	40.5	1.4
50	Al Horford, ATL	48	31.5	.555	16.7	7.3	20.1	7.6	17.3	12.5	19.93	210.9	7.0

59 Results

RK	PLAYER	GP	MPG	TS%	AST	TO	USG	ORR	DRR	REBR	PER	VA	EWA
51	Kelly Olynyk, BOS	47	20.7	.561	13.5	10.2	20.5	5.6	17.1	11.3	17.07	94.2	3.1
52	Frank Kaminsky III, CHA	46	21.4	.499	13.6	8.0	16.6	4.1	16.5	10.1	12.26	24.4	0.8
53	Steven Adams, OKC	47	24.4	.609	8.9	12.1	11.2	12.0	16.4	14.3	14.74	71.0	2.4
	Roy Hibbert, LAL	49	25.1	.515	15.7	12.4	13.3	7.1	16.4	11.6	12.20	29.3	1.0
55	Kevin Seraphin, NY	30	10.9	.418	16.5	14.5	22.2	7.9	15.9	12.0	10.80	1.0	0.0
56	Robin Lopez, NY	49	25.0	.556	13.0	14.3	16.4	11.7	14.8	13.3	15.48	89.3	3.0
57	Boris Diaw, SA	47	19.0	.591	25.6	13.3	17.1	5.2	13.7	9.7	15.19	61.1	2.0
	Tiago Splitter, ATL	35	16.1	.569	13.3	10.6	14.4	8.9	13.7	11.3	13.96	28.3	0.9
59	Andrea Bargnani, BKN	42	13.8	.499	4.4	8.2	21.7	4.9	12.2	8.5	11.97	11.8	0.4

[supermariowest]

Ill indeed! For the first time in the relatively short Bud era, I'm in favor of making big roster changes. And, perhaps more depressing than our drop-off, I'm not confident Budcox can make the appropriate changes. (To this end, I'm not really sure what those changes should be.)

[NBASupes]

It's simple, you need a SF in this NBA 

[Lurker]

It's not simple as missing Carroll, and I have a feeling you're begging and pleading for it so Horford can play PF and dominate like you think he can.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

It's not simple as missing Carroll, and I have a feeling you're begging and pleading for it so Horford can play PF and dominate like you think he can.

You still blaming Horford for everything? 

[Mdizzle5]

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

It's simple, you need a SF in this NBA 

I don't think that would necessarily solve our problems. Especially if everyone else is playing as they currently are. 

[Plainview1981]

I think the team lost confidence when they couldn't get a win against a half injured Cleveland team in the playoffs last year.

[Diesel]

Yet another night where we get outrebounded by more than 15, Horford brings in his 4 boards, and everybody finds a way to blame Teague or Bazemore for the loss?

Miami shot nearly 50% and they got all the rebounds.   When that happens, you lose.   Point Blank... Period.   Horford is doing nothing out there.  Not a thing.  Moreover, our defense sucks.

 

 

[Jody23]

8 hours ago, NBASupes said:

You still blaming Horford for everything? 

Horford is not the blame for everything, but his play deserves a fair share of it.

[hylndr11]

Soooo now its so obvious DMC and Pero being gone has killed the team and we all knew ....right, not soul was saying that shit last year, all I heard was upgrade this upgrade that. we need to keep  Sap.  Hindsight is hilarious on these boards, everyones a victim that was telling us all what was going to happen, ............and nobody was listening to them, only if............coach bud would listen to them.  

[hylndr11]

ITs pretty simple - its the same shit tthat happened to the falcons beginning of this year, They are beating teams due to scheme/plays and as the league adjusts you have to adjust - problem is, we dont have the players to continue the process that forces teams to play certain guys a certain way - Bud was rigtht last night, were just not that good.  We are the only team in the top 10 with this level of talent.  

[Guest]

I think the team needs to be blamed as a whole. Everybody took a step back from last season and that's why we aren't as successful. Time for players to find whatever it is that motivates them, take a good long hard look in the mirror, and start playing with some pride. I don't know if our players are underrated or overrated and honestly I don't care, but when you suit up for an NBA team, you need to bring it every night. These guys are fortunate to have a great job of playing a sport for a living and getting paid great. Now, they just need to show a little appreciation and respect for themselves, their families, the organization and us fans. 

 

Personally, I've missed about an average of 1 or 2 games as a Hawks fan for 30 years, I'm not sure how I've done that and I'm not sure how much longer I can endure this shitty product and effort every night. Last season was great, we won 60 games but we don't have any trophy to show for it, so why do we play like we've earned something. We haven't done $hit. 

 

Take it one possession at a time and start making progress by doing the little things just that much more precise and stop going through the motions. We get it, all the players have families, friends and other things going on in their lives, but when you're on the court, you will be spending time there no matter if you go through the motions and half ass it or you go hard for 48 minutes. So do the latter and have some pride.

 

Didnt mean for this to be a rant, oh well. 

[hylndr11]

I hope Pop hooks up Bud like Bud did him by taking Splitter off his hands, that shit was totally pointless. 

[macdaddy]

I agree that it's a little of everything but the start of the problem was a failure to stock the team with real nba talent.   We are seriously lacking raw talent and athleticism.     Baze should not be starting but Korver shouldn't either.   At this point i'd give Hardaway and Thabo a shot but it's not like Hardaway and shown enough to be the starter and Thabo looks a little slower than last year.    So yeah, we have a serious wing problem and you aren't going to score in this nba with some decent PGs and PFs and nothing else.

I've given Splitter a half season but it's obvious to me he is a poor fit for this team.    Maybe I"m just ignorant of the nuances but i'm not seeing anything that he is doing well for us.   His defense is lacking, doesn't particularly rebound well, and has terrible hands.   

To me it's not the loss of Carroll as much as the gimpiness of Teague.   He was the one real weapon that defenses had no answer for last year but without his explosiveness this year then we're just a team that passes the ball around the perimeter and jacks up a shot.  

[Gray Mule]

What you see is what you get.  Harsh words, but true.  This season's edition of the Hawks can't.

Let's examine our Hawks, position by position.

1- Point guard.  Hawks have 2 really good ones.  Yet, Jeff has trouble scoring and his ankle has been

giving him a fit.  Example:  Last night he tried 5 from deep.  Missed them all.  Dennis tries too much

"me" ball at times, dribbles too long and goes out of control or gets his shot blocked.

2- #2 guard.  Korver has, for the most part, lost his touch from beyond the arc.  Instead of burning

the net, he's burning the team with his misses.  Sometimes his backup is good and sometimes he's

not.  He runs hot and cold.

3- Small forward.  He's one from a good, solid player to a wild, out of control individual.  Trying to do

too much, force offense with his speed or throw the ball away by forcing the pass.

4- Power forward.  Millsap, our one really bright spot, is getting too many minutes, therefore he's picking

up too many fouls and is so tired he misses a layout that would have made a difference.

5- Center.  Our center is not a center.  He can't or will not play anywhere close to the basket a lot of the time.

Rebounds are a foreign language to him.  He has been known to block a shot here and there and has been

deadly with a mid range jumper when he's on and even hits the three ball at a good clip.  He plays like a

small forward and this is where he should move to, even if he is to slow to cover a lot of our opponents.

Or bench has proved, over and over, that they can be deadly one night and mediocre the next.

Our coach of the year last season seems lost a lot of times this season. 

Now, the question that remains unanswered is this:  Did the Hawks getting buried last season by Cleveland

show the rest of the league how to beat Atlanta or did this beating steal all the confidence of the Hawks?

Or, perhaps it was some of both.

[cam1218]

It's a very, very  bad sign when I decide to watch the Pro Bowl instead of a Hawks game. The lack of effort is frustrating and impossible to watch. It seemed like Julio and Freeman showed more effort in an exhibition game than most of our team has been showing lately.

[Mdizzle5]

7 hours ago, hylndr11 said:

ITs pretty simple - its the same shit tthat happened to the falcons beginning of this year, They are beating teams due to scheme/plays and as the league adjusts you have to adjust - problem is, we dont have the players to continue the process that forces teams to play certain guys a certain way - Bud was rigtht last night, were just not that good.  We are the only team in the top 10 with this level of talent.  

I agree with this. Bud continues to force a system that the league has adjusted to and w/o the right players (and/or talent level) to make it remain successful. 

[Guest]

Right now it's less about the system and more about the actual players execution and mindset and overall play. The system isn't making Korver shoot 0fers, or  Al not DEFENSIVE rebound and set lousy screens, or causing to Teague miss easy baskets at the rim or Tiago to fumble , or turn the ball over all willy nilly.

The focus they had last season with a the DF dust up is just not there.

What system should Bud run? We don't have any one player to have Bud change the system right NOW.

Yes he can tweak it but it's about execution and HEART.

 

[TheFuzz]

Agree with a lot of what's been said, but having cooled off I'll say this: I think Korver and Teague falling off cliffs are the biggest problems, coupled with us not replacing Carroll. Our talent is lacking. Horford is underperforming on the boards but otherwise has been somewhat similar, I think we're overstating his lack of dominance because honestly his dominance wasn't there last year either.