Lebron James is finished, the Hawks can take the East.

[Dejay]

5 minutes ago, Sothron said:

We cannot be afraid of the draft because of past mistakes. We also got Al Horford and Dennis in the draft in recent memory. If Budcox can rebuild then we need to trust in their ability to draft.

I'm with you there. But I just looked up their draft history a few minutes ago and, nah, those aren't just mistakes. Those are catastrophic, devastating, damn near franchise-killing mistakes. There was a year in which NONE of the players they picked even made it to the NBA. Not with the Hawks, THE ENTIRE NBA. What they've done with high draft picks makes you really want to take pause before handing the keys over for yet another tear down. It's like trying to get a loan after your ex-wife spent the last 30+ years detonating your credit with bad purchases on your card and never paying for the items she got after promising that she would. Try as you might with the bank to convince them otherwise, one whiff of that FICO score will have them running  you out of the office in no time flat.

As for recent memory, you're right. They drafted Al Horford but as we all later came to find out, that was only after the ownership group that shall not be mentioned had a 'come to Jesus' meeting with Billy Knight in regards to scrapping his 'master plan' of fielding an all 6'7"-6'9" team. Schoeder was a very good pickup so I no qualms there; well, except that Ferry drafted him, not Bud. 

If they decide to rebuild, I surely hope that they know what they're doing this time around. As we all... 

[Thomas]

(Congrats, Atlanta. We've just supplanted Cleveland on the "tortured sports fans" list!)

Don't think it is ever a good thing to back up into the record books. Sort of the NBA's "who's not of the who's who" list.

[Jody23]

20 minutes ago, Sothron said:

We cannot be afraid of the draft because of past mistakes. We also got Al Horford and Dennis in the draft in recent memory. If Budcox can rebuild then we need to trust in their ability to draft.

This approach exactly.  Gotta stop living in the past.  No risk, no reward.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

10 hours ago, NBASupes said:

It's wide open. Everything is on the table outside of Kyle and our FA's. 

Kyle is on the table too.  He better be on that table.

[lethalweapon3]

Speaking of horrible drafts, I do hope Dajuan Wagner got to enjoy this somehow.

~lw3

[Lurker]

3 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Kyle is on the table too.  He better be on that table.

He likely isn't with the way the team talks about him, which is a huge mistake.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Lurker

[Dejay]

16 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Illusion or not, my entertainment dollars a limited. I'm not spending money to see a team with a Sixers style product on the floor winning 13 and 26 games.

Do I want the same cast of characters back - NO. Nor am I interesting in trading our entire team except Dennis for picks.

There has to be a middle ground.

Agreed, Jay. I don't want the band back nor do I want a total reboot. You guys know me long enough to know that I have NO regard for looking at the future of a team's makeup 3-5 years down the line, especially when there are moves that can be done to improve the team's chances RIGHT NOW. I've stomached enough '5-year plans' from the Smith regime with the Falcons and having Brad Komminsk, Kevin Coffman, and Derek Lilliquist shoved down my throat when the Braves were losing to college and high school teams. The very last thing I'm doing is spending $$$ on a 50+loss product, only to risk having to debate the merits of Josh Childress or Marvin Williams again. And judging from what the Braves are dealing with right now, I'm not alone in this regard... 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, lethalweapon3 said:

Speaking of horrible drafts, I do hope Dajuan Wagner got to enjoy this somehow.

~lw3

You mean the future Allen Iverson....oops!

[Mdizzle5]

5 hours ago, Diesel said:

Uhm???  Rebuild for what?  It's a strong possibility that if we rebuild wrong, we will end up waiting 10 more years before we have a team good enough to even make the playoffs.   That loses FAs.  Know our History!  IF we stay in contention then maybe some good free agent will consider us.   IF we drop out of contention, we may become the new 76ers... always in the lottery.. a training ground for other teams..  A D-League team in the NBA. 

 

Contention for what? Just making the playoffs? Yea... I don't think that's moving the FA meter. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, Dejay said:

I think what can be taken from this is that as currently constructed, the Hawks don't have enough firepower to be inserted in the conversation with the Cavaliers. They just don't. This can no longer be debated with a straight face. If they had taken the Cavs to, say, six games in the two series they lost, okay. But to get swept in the manner they did? Not hardly. 

So, the $64,000 question is what do they do to get there. I've sat from afar and heard both sides of this debate (rebuild vs. reload) and one can argue either way...

It can be argued that reloading will not garner us the star power needed to fully compete under the assumption that Durant, Beal, and even Derozan would simply stay where they are, that guys like Harrison Barnes, Chandler Parsons, and Nicolas Batum doesn't warrant a max deal, or guys like Dwight Howard and Al Jefferson no longer does. Bringing a mid-tier player like Jeff Green (aka Tim Thomas 2.0), signing Bazemore back, or (egads) Marvin Williams isn't going to move the meter with fans who expect more and stay home when expectations aren't being met. Winning 45-50 games and getting knocked out in the first or second round may get the job done in one-horse towns in Portland or Salt Lake or long-suffering fans in Philly or Minnesota but here? We should know better by now.

It can be argued that there is no guarantee AT ALL that rebuilding from scratch will do the trick, either. It is not that there won't be franchise players available at the top of the draft who can take a team all the way. It's that no sane person on this board has the confidence that the Hawks will ever draft such a person. I was two years old the last time the Hawks had the top pick overall and the guy they selected (David Thompson) never played a minute here because they were too cheap to match what the ABA was offering. I need not go there (again) with the multiple faux-pas they've had with lottery picks from Kasten (Wood, Edmonson, Koncak) to Babs (Keefe, Robinson, Augmon, Johnson) to BK (Childress, the Williams boys, Law). That is not some hushed secret in these parts or in the pro basketball world, either. Blowing first-round draft picks have become a big part of the Hawks' legacy. So much so that this franchise no longer has enough points on their sports FICO score to warrant fans giving them the benefit of the doubt to go through with another tear down. There is very little confidence within the fanbase that Bud and Wilcox wouldn't do the exact same thing that their predecessors have done, which is why so many here are against a total reboot.

So what do we do? I say somewhere in the middle. Make some trades to get them in the lottery as well as some free agent moves to get more talented guys in Hawk gear. Imagine what Bud can do with a guy like Shabazz Muhammed, Omri Casspri, or Willie Cauley-Stein instead of having to rebuild from scratch with Tavares, Patterson, or Muscala (decent guys but that's about it so far)? It might not be the best route to go but that's all I have right now. If you have a better, more feasible plan, by all means, let me know...

The only shot we have in the short term, is to trade one of the bigs ( Horford or Millsap ) + Teague ... for Carmelo Anthony.  

From a scoring standpoint, he and Durant are the only guys we can even remotely obtain, that have the ability to offensively carry a team during difficult times, and put up 30+ points in the process.

You need Hall of Fame talent, to combat other Hall of Fame talent.  You need that offensive alpha dog.   The Hawks don't have that, and must obtain that.

Edited June 20, 2016 by TheNorthCydeRises

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The only shot we have in the short term, is to trade one of the bigs ( Horford or Millsap ) + Teague ... for Carmelo Anthony.  

From a scoring standpoint, he and Durant are the only guys we can even remotely obtain, that have the ability to offensively carry a team during difficult times, and put up 30+ points in the process.

You need Hall of Fame talent, to combat other Hall of Fame talent.  You need that offensive alpha dog.   The Hawks don't have that, and must obtain that.

I understand the premise I just don't think a 32 year Melo is the answer at this point.

[lethalweapon3]

An Alpha Dog is nice, but be careful that we don't wind up with a Big Dog!

~lw3

[Dejay]

If it was the Carmelo Anthony from 2011 and the last Olympics, I'm game. At this point, well...

[TheNorthCydeRises]

59 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Illusion or not, my entertainment dollars a limited. I'm not spending money to see a team with a Sixers style product on the floor winning 13 and 26 games.

Do I want the same cast of characters back - NO. Nor am I interesting in trading our entire team except Dennis for picks.

There has to be a middle ground.

Considering I drive 600 miles round trip to see the Hawks, no way I'm driving down more than 3 times a year to watch an awful Hawks team ... unless they get a guy on an Anthony Davis level.

I could be "entertained" by a young kid flat out balling out, with the Hawks losing ( if the games are relatively close ).  A young squad like the T-Wolves, I could definitely watch.  The Lakers?  Hell no.

[Sothron]

We should definitely be more like the TWolves. Man I can't wait to watch them next season...

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Sothron said:

We should definitely be more like the TWolves. Man I can't wait to watch them next season...

@SothronYou mean 12 years without a playoff appearance even though they've been in the lottery with high picks those 12 years.

 

[Thomas]

TWolves fans sound eerily like Atlanta Brave fans year in and year out. "Wait till next year." We will all see.  

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, Thomas said:

TWolves fans sound eerily like Atlanta Brave fans year in and year out. "Wait till next year." We will all see.  

Hopefully they barely squeeze into the playoffs and convey a decent pick to the Hawks in fulfillment of the Payne trade.

[Guard]

I understand the hesitancy Jay but this franchise has to put itself in the best position to succeed.  Fans demand it from coaches but front offices have to do the same. The road they've traveled all these years is not going to suddenly change for the better. 

Over the years, this team has had large  cap space, multiple coaching/roster changes, new schemes, front office alterations, etc and things remain the same for the most part. At this point, I'd much rather gamble in the lottery than keep watching this team be middling. 

Edited June 20, 2016 by Guard

[Dejay]

34 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Considering I drive 600 miles round trip to see the Hawks, no way I'm driving down more than 3 times a year to watch an awful Hawks team ... unless they get a guy on an Anthony Davis level.

I could be "entertained" by a young kid flat out balling out, with the Hawks losing ( if the games are relatively close ).  A young squad like the T-Wolves, I could definitely watch.  The Lakers?  Hell no.

Exactly. I live less than 20 miles from downtown and work down the street and STILL wouldn't pay to see a 50-loss Hawks team unless they had a franchise player that was turning heads like an Anthony Davis, a younger Carmelo, or Karl-Anthony Towns. No way I'm putting up with another Derrick McKey clone like Marvin Williams, a guy who shoots the ball like a 3rd grader (see Childress, Joshua), or another whose wife is a much better baller (see Williams, Shelden). Not going to do it...