Kyle Korver Role Player

[StephenHawking]

This has nothing to do with todays game but with how the whole season is going so far for him. 

Outside of him im very pleased with the Hawks and with our record. I just cant understand in how far Korver should be a starter on this team.

I mean anybody with eyes can see that were way better when Korver is off the court. Its not even his offense which annoys me in the first place. Its his defense. Hes a liability on defense and not able to defend any starting 2 in the league. Also hes way to limited on offense to be starting. Yes he can provide nice shooting and it can get us really going but honestly that happens like every 6th game. 

IMO our best starting lineup would be either DS - THJ - Baze - Sap - D8 or DS - Baze - Thabo - Sap -D8 

Lets face it hes a great 6th man nowadays. I love my hawks and were doing great so far. But Korver hasnt much to do with it. He would be better of the bench.

 

[StephenHawking]

Also i call us lucky that he had a DNP-injured vs the cavs. Otherwise we wouldve had a match up - problem again 

[NBASupes]

It's hard to take him out because no one cause other teams to defend the perimeter but Kyle. We need better wings. 

[StephenHawking]

vor 2 Minuten, NBASupes sagte:

It's hard to take him out because no one cause other teams to defend the perimeter but Kyle. We need better wings. 

THJ can get such a player. Maybe with increased minutes he gets even better and more consistent. Also Baze has a pretty nice stroke from 3 lately. I think we'd be able to come up for it. 

You can also argue that its hard to let THJ out cause he provides multiple scoring options and plays way better d

[Lurker]

They are sagging in the paint even with Kyle in and Dwight out. The defensive game plan for really over a year has been face guard Kyle and pack up the paint.

[Plainview1981]

4 minutes ago, Lurker said:

They are sagging in the paint even with Kyle in and Dwight out. The defensive game plan for really over a year has been face guard Kyle and pack up the paint.

Well, the Hawks don't have guards with ball handing skills and slashing ability... Why not pack the paint? It's not like the Hawks shooters are great shooters.

[Thomas]

With Thabo out the only option seems even more obvious by playing Tim a lot of minutes at SG. If Baze starts at SG then only Prince has any real playing time at SF. Hope Thabo is back asap.

[pimp]

There appears to be a pattern . We have 3 losses , and Kyle has given us jack squat  in all 3 games.

VS Lakers    <27 mins   3 pts - 4rebs -  2 ast>
vs Wizards  < 20 mins   3 pts - 3 rebs - 2 ast >
vs Hornets  <29 mins 5 pts -, 0 rebs 2 ast>

 

Edited November 19, 2016 by pimp

[615Hawk]

And yet people point to analytics that say he is a great +/- player. When I watch him play he just isn't moving well. He can't get loose from his defender. To me he is a great option coming off the bench against other backup players. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

It'll take an injury, or extremely poor play to get Kyle out of the starting lineup.  I don't mind him starting right now, I just would like to see his minutes reduced when he's not playing well.   He's down to 27 minutes a game, but he should honestly be around 21 - 23 minutes a game.

I'm glad that Bud is getting Prince some PT while Thabo is out, but he may need to do the same thing for Bembry.   The kids can make an impact on the game, even if they're not good deep ball shooters yet.  But I do think that as soon as Splitter and Scott are healthy, both will be sent to the D-League.  Bembry for sure will be sent there.

Hard to nitpick at how the team has played so far though.  I don't think many people would envision us being 9 - 3 at this point of the season.  

[MaceCase]

4 hours ago, pimp said:

There appears to be a pattern . We have 3 losses , and Kyle has given us jack squat  in all 3 games.

VS Lakers    <27 mins   3 pts - 4rebs -  2 ast>
vs Wizards  < 20 mins   3 pts - 3 rebs - 2 ast >
vs Hornets  <29 mins 5 pts -, 0 rebs 2 ast>

 

So the pattern is saying he's the Hawks' MVP? As he goes, the team goes? 

Give some context here, this alone is suggesting he has way more impact than just a role player.

[pimp]

4 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

So the pattern is saying he's the Hawks' MVP? As he goes, the team goes? 

Give some context here, this alone is suggesting he has way more impact than just a role player.

Suggesting that we had 3 close games that we lost , where Korver did absolutely  nothing to help the team win.  We may have had a better chance at winning those games if he contributed more than nothing. This is not suggesting that he is more than a role player.
It is suggesting that he did not fill his role, because he did nothing at all.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, pimp said:

Suggesting that we had 3 close games that we lost , where Korver did absolutely  nothing to help the team win.  We may have had a better chance at winning those games if he contributed more than nothing. This is not suggesting that he is more than a role player.
It is suggesting that he did not fill his role, because he did nothing at all.

VS LA - The entire team defense was exceptionally bad

VS Wiz - Bazemore  had a big fat ZERO points, would have had a chance to win if he had at least matched Korver's 3 points (lost by 3)

VS Buz - Dwight got ejected

I would point to those as bigger factors in the losses.

 

[pimp]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

VS LA - The entire team defense was exceptionally bad

VS Wiz - Bazemore  had a big fat ZERO points, would have had a chance to win if he had at least matched Korver's 3 points (lost by 3)

VS Buz - Dwight got ejected

I would point to those as bigger factors in the losses.

 

I agree with everything you said. However those 3 things you said didn't happen in all 3 games. But, what did happen in all three , 
was that we got absolutely nothing from Kyle. He is not the sole reason we lost, but he is part of the reason that we lost all three of those games.

[QuantumHawkz]

The Hawks need to do a better job getting Korver the ball. When DS17 goes 0 for 5 from three while Korver only put up three shots something is wrong. I also agree that Korver would be an excellent spark off the bench.

[StephenHawking]

vor 5 Minuten, QuantumHawkz sagte:

The Hawks need to do a better job getting Korver the ball. When DS17 goes 0 for 5 from three while Korver only put up three shots something is wrong. I also agree that Korver would be an excellent spark off the bench.

There is no way to give him the ball. As before mentioned he's not moving well. Sometimes they forcefeed him and than you have the next  problem with KK. HE CANT DRIBBLE AT ALL. Thats why he jacking up contested shot after contested shot. To me his game is just to one dimensional for a starter

[kurupt]

vor 10 Minuten, QuantumHawkz sagte:

The Hawks need to do a better job getting Korver the ball. When DS17 goes 0 for 5 from three while Korver only put up three shots something is wrong. I also agree that Korver would be an excellent spark off the bench.

And then you watch the game and realize that all of Schroders 3's were wide open (he was shooting 40% so far this season) and Kover was hounded by MKG (that guy can defend!) all game and rarely got open at all.

Not every team has the Honrets defense and an MKG, but the issue with games like this is that Korver adds nothing more than spacing/shooting. The spacing is only there if the opponent doesn't have a guy like MKG who can do it on his own most of the time. ANd if he does not hit the shots he takes...well...then there is not a lot.

[pimp]

4 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

t.  But I do think that as soon as Splitter and Scott are healthy, both will be sent to the D-League.  Bembry for sure will be sent there.

 

They may send Bembry to the D-league , but i think they will keep Prince on the roster , and cut Kelly.
Then they will tell Kelly that they will resign him in a week or two after Splitter gets hurt again.

[Plainview1981]

4 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

It'll take an injury, or extremely poor play to get Kyle out of the starting lineup.  I don't mind him starting right now, I just would like to see his minutes reduced when he's not playing well.   He's down to 27 minutes a game, but he should honestly be around 21 - 23 minutes a game.

I'm glad that Bud is getting Prince some PT while Thabo is out, but he may need to do the same thing for Bembry.   The kids can make an impact on the game, even if they're not good deep ball shooters yet.  But I do think that as soon as Splitter and Scott are healthy, both will be sent to the D-League.  Bembry for sure will be sent there.

Hard to nitpick at how the team has played so far though.  I don't think many people would envision us being 9 - 3 at this point of the season.  

Well, the schedule has been rather weak.

If the Hawks are going to have success in the playoffs they will have to make a trade for a wing that can score. Like other have said, there is too much pressure on Milsap and Dennis to create everything. The good defensive teams will take away the Hawks 3pt shooting because the guards are mostly useless on the offensive end if they're not hitting 3's.

[ThomasCredle]

I think the Hawks need to try out starting THJr and moving Kyle to the bench and when Thabo is back and healthy experiment with Baze at the two and starting Thabo.   Prince is showing he can be a good back up at SF.   Kyle can't move without the ball like he used to and not having Horford has had and effect on Kyle getting the catch and shoot passes because the ball is moving inside out more than just around the perimeter.   

At this point I think Kyle may be a Steve Kerr type player that just comes in for scenarios where you go small and want as many deep threats as possible.   THJr has been a better defender this year can do more with the ball in his hand and is shooting better.