State of the Hawks Poll

[StephenHawking]

wasnt really sure what to pick on baze and saps question. 

Sap to me is one of the best forwards in the game and still not worthy the amount of money and lenght of contract he'll be offered.

Baze is subpar but i dont think we'll get something of great value nor a heavily protected 2nd round pick. It'll be something right in between.

[Diesel]

In this changing landscape of salaries and player worth, I don't know how to guage a players worth moniterily. 

[AHF]

45 minutes ago, Diesel said:

In this changing landscape of salaries and player worth, I don't know how to guage a players worth moniterily. 

I think you can get a good gauge on their value as a % of the total cap.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

He got a -2.1 +/- on the court for the Hawks. His impact is just not there. Win shares don't care about impact, just a combinations of stats.

Malcolm Delaney currently has a +/- of ( +3.1 ),   Does this mean that Delaney has impact on the Hawks?  Or is that an "empty" +/- number?

When looking at his win share numbers, Delaney is -0.1 and has a WS/48 number of ( -0.03 ).

So what is Delaney's true impact on the Hawks?

Win shares are much more of an indicator of who the team needs and is making an impact on the court, than +/-.   If you value +/-, that's fine.  But to see who is actually impacting the game, take that +/- and compare it with your net production.  That's why I've always liked how 82games.com does their overall rating of players.

They basically take net on-court production at your position plus a players +/- number on/off the court . . . to get a "simple rating".

So if you have a net production number of ( +5 ), and your +/- is ( -2 ) . . . your "simple rating" is 3

When you do that, here's how the main rotation Hawks look

 

Hardaway Jr:  +7.2

Millsap:  +6.0

Howard:  +5.0

Ilyasova:  +4.1

Schröder:  -0.7

Sefolosha:  -0.7

Humphries:  -2.0

Prince:  -3.5

Bazemore:  -3.8

Delaney:  -5.6

Muscala:  -5.8

 

To me, that's a pretty dang accurate portrayal of who are the true impact players on the Hawks.   

 

 

 

 

[BrazilianHawk]

19 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Say what you want about Baze but I trust Baze to start on more teams right now than Tim, I just don't trust or want Bazemore to start for us anymore. He simply doesn't fit  our current personnel but on a team like Cleveland, he would be loved. 

By us.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Malcolm Delaney currently has a +/- of ( +3.1 ),   Does this mean that Delaney has impact on the Hawks?  Or is that an "empty" +/- number?

When looking at his win share numbers, Delaney is -0.1 and has a WS/48 number of ( -0.03 ).

So what is Delaney's true impact on the Hawks?

Win shares are much more of an indicator of who the team needs and is making an impact on the court, than +/-.   If you value +/-, that's fine.  But to see who is actually impacting the game, take that +/- and compare it with your net production.  That's why I've always liked how 82games.com does their overall rating of players.

They basically take net on-court production at your position plus a players +/- number on/off the court . . . to get a "simple rating".

So if you have a net production number of ( +5 ), and your +/- is ( -2 ) . . . your "simple rating" is 3

When you do that, here's how the main rotation Hawks look

 

Hardaway Jr:  +7.2

Millsap:  +6.0

Howard:  +5.0

Ilyasova:  +4.1

Schröder:  -0.7

Sefolosha:  -0.7

Humphries:  -2.0

Prince:  -3.5

Bazemore:  -3.8

Delaney:  -5.6

Muscala:  -5.8

 

To me, that's a pretty dang accurate portrayal of who are the true impact players on the Hawks.   

 

 

 

 

Sample size is key for most of these guys. We all know Howard is productive but he also does a lot of things wrong that don't show up on the stat sheet that I constantly point out. When I do, I constantly mention this, I am told to be a hater when in reality, his impact simply isn't there. 

We all know Dennis has impact issues and it shows but Dwight's one is massive considering his talent. 

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

 

D-Schro reminds me of J-Smoove... Frustrating to watch. He doesn't set up an offense, thinks of his shot first, plays street ball, and is out of control at times. Too turnover prone. Say what you want about Teague, but at least he was an intelligent player and plays NBA basketball.

 

 

Millsap might as well be 40 years old now with that arthritic knee. I'd like him back, but this is likely his last contract, so he'll demand every red cent. He's worth about $18 per.

 

 

I love Dwight on this roster. Dwight isn't the problem with this team... The problem with this team is our shooters got old and were replaced by guys who aren't efficient players. Baze played well vs. Sixers, but isn't a shooter. KK got old. Calderon hasn't had a shot for three seasons. Schröder isn't a shooter either.

 

 

The Hawks problem is they are not an efficient team and do not play as a cohesive unit. That's why there are so many blown defenses and our offense is stagnant. I hate putting it on Schröder, but his play is exactly how the rest of the team seems to play. Take a page out of the Falcons playbook and learn the BROTHERHOOD.

 

 

The only three players that need to stay is Dwight, Sap, and THJR. Everyone else needs dumped to the highest bidder.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Lurker]

Dennis would be much better if he got to play with a versatile PNR big man, and he did some with Millsap but now he's gone. His only strength in actual BASKETBALL is the PNR and he needs versatility to be good in it, not just a lob catcher.

Wait a minute, some of y'all are as bad as AJC with Dwight. I'm not an Al lover but Dwight is badly, badly overrated. He and the team would not be world's better if Jeff were here, it'd be a win here and a win there but not worldly different.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Lurker said:

Dennis would be much better if he got to play with a versatile PNR big man, and he did some with Millsap but now he's gone. His only strength in actual BASKETBALL is the PNR and he needs versatility to be good in it, not just a lob catcher.

Wait a minute, some of y'all are as bad as AJC with Dwight. I'm not an Al lover but Dwight is badly, badly overrated. He and the team would not be world's better if Jeff were here, it'd be a win here and a win there but not worldly different.

Not an Al lover but definitely a Dwight hater.

[AHawks89]

@kg01 and I agreed on everything. Great minds think alike. 

Edited March 30, 2017 by AHawks89

[AHawks89]

Failed gif. AKA I failed. I'm horrible at this

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, AHawks89 said:

Failed gif. AKA I failed. I'm horrible at this

[NBASupes]

5 hours ago, AHF said:

Not an Al lover but definitely a Dwight hater.

Hater? I do not like that term. The proof is in the pudding. 

[AHF]

14 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Hater? I do not like that term. The proof is in the pudding. 

I think the shoe fits sometimes.  Not that Dwight is immune from criticism but if you can't see the positives along with the negatives that is where I use the term.  

 

The flip side is being a lover.  Like if you love La and only sing it's praises and say it is as a better movie than let's say the Postman then I'll call you a La lover.  Just as a hypothetical example. 

[NBASupes]

49 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think the shoe fits sometimes.  Not that Dwight is immune from criticism but if you can't see the positives along with the negatives that is where I use the term.  

 

The flip side is being a lover.  Like if you love La and only sing it's praises and say it is as a better movie than let's say the Postman then I'll call you a La lover.  Just as a hypothetical example. 

You can call me a Horford stan, it's true. I am. That said, I am not a Dwight hater. 

Honestly, if Ferry was still our GM, we would have traded for Nurkic. 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, NBASupes said:

You can call me a Horford stan, it's true. I am. That said, I am not a Dwight hater. 

Honestly, if Ferry was still our GM, we would have traded for Nurkic. 

You have no way of knowing that.  And, this isn't necessarily aimed at you, but what will it take for Dan E. to lose this mythical status people have for him?

What did he do before he got here and what has he done since he left?  He can barely get a job!  Why do people not see the "success" here as the outlier, not the norm for him.  Dude couldn't build a winner around the best player in the game!!  Why do people ignore that!!??

Look, I'm fully in the camp thinking we need a ... scratch that ... we desperately need a real GM, just not in any way of the mindset that it needs to be Ferry.

[AHF]

11 minutes ago, kg01 said:

You have no way of knowing that.  And, this isn't necessarily aimed at you, but what will it take for Dan E. to lose this mythical status people have for him?

What did he do before he got here and what has he done since he left?  He can barely get a job!  Why do people not see the "success" here as the outlier, not the norm for him.  Dude couldn't build a winner around the best player in the game!!  Why do people ignore that!!??

Look, I'm fully in the camp thinking we need a ... scratch that ... we desperately need a real GM, just not in any way of the mindset that it needs to be Ferry.

Not sure where the credit goes but the team he joined did absolutely steal DeMarcus Cousins so perhaps he is doing some good there.  I agree his work in Cleveland was nothing impressive but what he did here was impressive.  I think we would be better off had he remained but he wasn't an 'easy button' to winning.  Just better than what we have now.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, AHF said:

Not sure where the credit goes but the team he joined did absolutely steal DeMarcus Cousins so perhaps he is doing some good there.  I agree his work in Cleveland was nothing impressive but what he did here was impressive.  I think we would be better off had he remained but he wasn't an 'easy button' to winning.  Just better than what we have now.

I don't think we'd be markedly better had he stayed.  And I agree he wasn't, how did you put it, "an easy button to winning".

Considering the way the league is de-valuing bigs and how poorly they've played together, I don't know that we should be penciling NOP in as the clear-cut winner of the Cousins trade.  At best, it's too early to tell.  Even still, he's not the GM there so, whether it works or not, listing it under his accomplishments/failings is a reach.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

Not sure where the credit goes but the team he joined did absolutely steal DeMarcus Cousins so perhaps he is doing some good there.  I agree his work in Cleveland was nothing impressive but what he did here was impressive.  I think we would be better off had he remained but he wasn't an 'easy button' to winning.  Just better than what we have now.

Sacramento won that deal in my opinion. They get rid of a guy that will continue to be a headache for everyone he's involved with whether it's coaches or teammates. 

 

Sacramento walked led away with Buddy Hield and a lotto pick in this 2017 loaded draft. I think Vlade Doddy we likes to party should win the GM of the year award. 

11 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Honestly, if Ferry was still our GM, we would have traded for Nurkic. 

Quite random but ok.

[Thomas]

1 hour ago, Spud2Nique said:

Sacramento walked led away with Buddy Hield and a lotto pick in this 2017 loaded draft. I think Vlade Doddy we likes to party should win the GM of the year award. 

Their FO made it as awkward as humanly possible but in the end the theatrics were shipped and they do have a very nice draft pick along with Hield. Maybe this year they get that drafting part right, but then again you know the Kings.