State of the Hawks

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

You had me until Blake. To me, Blake is in the Melo category of stat stuffing so called stars that don't make their teammates any better and their current team probably win more without them on the squad.

 

2 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Yeah, he has missed about eighty regular season games the last three years and is damaged already by the playoffs or gets damaged during the playoffs. His MO.

I'd take Flake and all his warts over Sap any day.  When he's right, Flake is eons better than Sap offensively.  Clearly Sap is the better leader/defender but his defense took a step back this year.

I'd rely on the 'medicals' to tell me if his injury issues are expected to become recurring and make the determination from there.  Remember one of those years were lost due to the broken hand.  The quad injury should heal.

[turnermx]

And if that team DOES back into the playoffs and ruins a lottery pick, it'll be a lot more entertaining and painless watching them do it than if Hawks spend money and spin wheels just to keep treadmilling with meaningless 1st round exits.

 

Yes I can see that because the team will be going with a youth movement along with Dennis that will see them enter prime years after you know who's retirement.

 

 

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[capstone21]

After years and years of controversy, in-fighting, frustration,  politics, extremely bad ownership, bad coaches and bad management .... I am extremely happy with the new direction this team has taken lately 

We now finally have a new owner who appreciates the team and wants it to be successful.

We have a coach who has proven that he can take players who are castoffs from other teams and turn them into quality players.  He has built a system based on the San Antonio model

We have a new GM who comes from an extremely successful winning team and has a chance to make some good decisions for us

and lets not forget our Steve Koonin who has been instrumental in changing the Hawks experience for the fans.

We are no longer a joke in the league and created a quality culture.  Even if we are going to start over ... we have the right backbone that will keep this team heading in the right direction.

 

[Lurker]

For what it's worth, that losing streak which was as painful as can be, actually came after Ilyasova was here. Both losing streaks were very painful but the first one only had Millsap sitting out 3 of them.

And before you ask, watching Dennis throw the ball around due to him not being comfortable as the sole playmaker because of Millsap not being around, is more painful than watching the team get it's brains beaten out of them. That last regular season Washington game, was more painful than the brain beating out of blowout earlier in the year against the same team. At least in my perspective.

[hazer]

3 hours ago, hazer said:

I honestly hope we go with Menace/FA, THJr/daFro, freshPrince/pick, Ilyasovavichkov/pick, D8/pick this year and miss the playoffs. Land a top 10 draft spot for 2018. Then get back to the playoffs in '19 with savvy development/FAcy/trades and work your way back up to the top of the bracket in subsequent years (via pouncing on a "star" FA circa 2020).

2017-18: Menace/THJr/freshPrince/Ilyasovavichkovrenko/D8, rooks off bench, play young exciting ball, miss playoffs, snag top 10 pick.

2018-19: Player development, FAcy, shrewd trading, savvy drafting, sneak back into the lower tier of post-season and maybe even steal a few exciting games.

2019-2020: Continued player development, FAcy, shrewd trading, savvy drafting, inch back up into the upper tier of the playoff pack, maybe luck into the 2nd round, show some signs of life of only being 1 star player away from the ECFs.

2020-21: LaBrawna's body will begin to fade and contract expire. POUNCE on one of these star FAs (unrestricted): Anthony Davis (27/player option) , James Harden (30), Kyrie Irving (28), Kawhi Leonard (29). Make it to the ECFs.

2021-22: Free up some space, pounce again (unrestricted): Giannis (26). Finals appearance.

 

That's my 5 year plan and I'm sticking to it. Bookmarking it

 

Edited June 7, 2017 by hazer

[thecampster]

7 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

@thecampster

Name the teams: Denver, Houston and Miami???(I don't see Riley givnig Millsap a max).

Detroit can't take Baze, they are already over the cap and have to resign KCP who is looking for a max deal.  Hawks will have to take on more salary. Ish makes $6. (I know it's only an example).

If Millsap walks.....:

1.  I'd pass on Griffin as a max player, he may have the better numbers but he will miss too many games not just in the regular season but also in the layoffs.

2. Dwight should be moved.  I don't want Dwight as the veteran locker room presence

Question regarding moving up in the draft: are you saying we keep #19, then use #31, Minny and Cavs 1sts to move up?  Or using #19 and future 1sts to move up?

I am saying 31 + Minny + Cleveland can get you there. Especially with Detroit/Miami who is going to need that 31...Good player, much lower salary than 12. That 12 pick is $2.3 to 2.7 million starting salary. Detroit desperately needs that extra salary. They need to keep their existing talent (like KCP). I am saying that 31 = 2 million in salary savings this year for them and gives them 2 future first rounders going forward.  most teams see that 31st pick as more valuable than a pick in the 20's because of the cap savings.  We tend to look at picks at only the value of talent. NBA teams look at them much differently. If they need a talent infuse, they value being in the top 10. But if they have their core built, teams view picks below 10 in whole terms of salary vs what they bring to the franchise right now.  If 12 does look like an immediate starter/contributor...teams will move it.  In 2015, the Hawks selected Kelly Oubre but immediately moved him to move down 4 slots and picked up 2 second round draft picks. The Hawks then moved 19 (Jerian Grant) for Tim Hardaway Jr.. The move saved the Hawks $700,000 in 2015 and was purely a move for cap reasons. This is the same type of a deal. Miami is your best bet for this deal here. They need the most 3 year flexibility.

The Ish Smith move is just one example but such a move would involve 2 more players and would look something like Baze+Moose for Smith +Leuer. Would save Detroit .25 million on the cap and give them a better fit.

You aren't moving Dwight and getting a player who can do 60% what he can do. At his age, baggage level, injury history, salary, it is better to hold on to Dwight until this or next year's trade deadline where players will mortgage the future if they believe he will get them over the hump. Meanwhile, you let your picks develop and or rent Dwight until the right center prospect/FA materializes. Again, you'll be trading Dwight for other team's salary and midlevel 1sts at that time. You can't do that as well now because teams have less in assets after the season as contracts expire.

Edited June 7, 2017 by thecampster

[thecampster]

7 hours ago, kg01 said:

7 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

@thecampster

Name the teams: Denver, Houston and Miami???(I don't see Riley givnig Millsap a max).

And @thecampster, why you scared to share your 3 Millsap teams?  (punk)

 

Because I honestly didn't want to take the time to defend it (and in no order), Sacramento, Indiana and Denver. Realistically because I think Sap's price tag is too high for us and those teams need talent at the 4 for various reasons.

And FYI, I don't see him getting the max anywhere but I do see him getting $26-28 million elsewhere.

Edited June 7, 2017 by thecampster

[macdaddy]

23 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Because I honestly didn't want to take the time to defend it (and in no order), Sacramento, Indiana and Denver. Realistically because I think Sap's price tag is too high for us and those teams need talent at the 4 for various reasons.

And FYI, I don't see him getting the max anywhere but I do see him getting $26-28 million elsewhere.

Sap's not going to want to go to those 3 though.   He's looking for money for sure but he's also looking for winning.   Those teams are a long ways away.  

[benhillboy]

8 hours ago, kg01 said:

I think we've taken a hit in the player devel. area.

You and me both.  We need a "household" name to hire as lead assistant (I just cannot say "sexy" when referring to men, maybe Spud can).

8 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

I don't want Dwight as the veteran locker room presence.

I didn't even think of that.  Sh#t.

After Dennis was going through his growing pains Sap reluctantly became more vocal, but just for a couple days.  When the team got washed by 30 in B2B games in the midst of that awful streak you knew the leadership was weak.  Its gonna be non-existent with Sap and Thabo gone.  Again, oh sh$t.

Let Schlenk hit that reset button on that Butler deal and get it done this time.

[Peoriabird]

This is the kind of coach the Hawks Need

 

[Thomas]

On 6/7/2017 at 11:33 AM, kg01 said:

I'd take Flake and all his warts over Sap any day.  

One of those warts is missing one years worth of games over three seasons. Hard to outperform anyone on the court when he is wearing street clothes. Doctors aren't going to be able to change his documented history and you know how that stuff repeats itself. 

[macdaddy]

2 hours ago, Thomas said:

One of those warts is missing one years worth of games in three seasons. Hard to outperform anyone on the court when he is wearing street clothes. Doctors aren't going to be able to change his documented history and you know how that stuff repeats itself. 

He's had knee surgery and a torn quad.   But his other injuries are broken toe and broken hand.   Those were stupid and/or fluky injuries.  I know his missed games don't look good but i'm not seeing anything that necessarily shows that his body will just keep breaking down.   

[Thomas]

Would be paying somewhere around thirty million for this grocery list of injuries after he opts out. Big guys with those back injuries adds extra miles as well as their knees doing so. Of course the Clips can offer more but will they.

First, to his left leg: sprained MCL, broken kneecap, meniscus tear, partially torn quadriceps, high ankle sprain, knee bone bruise, sprained knee, and strained hamstring. As for his right: He suffered torn cartilage in his right knee in college and underwent “minor” surgery on his right knee this season to remove “loose bodies.” Over the years, he’s suffered other miscellaneous injuries, like a back stress fracture, right-elbow staph infection, and broken right hand. We can now add bruised big right toe to the list.

[StrayDogThaGawd]

Start by reining in Koonin.  His marking decisions are making the team look like clowns (read: jerseys), while other teams are bringing back some solid old logos and jerseys.  While it doesn't affect gameplay, I know a ton of people that laugh their asses off when I try to bring them to a game, and their response is, "yeah, when they stop wearing lime green like some and1 street ballers!" 

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, StrayDogThaGawd said:

Start by reining in Koonin.  His marking decisions are making the team look like clowns (read: jerseys), while other teams are bringing back some solid old logos and jerseys.  While it doesn't affect gameplay, I know a ton of people that laugh their asses off when I try to bring them to a game, and their response is, "yeah, when they stop wearing lime green like some and1 street ballers!" 

When did you and @Sothron start hanging out?

 

 

Seriously, I'm on board with Koonin.  Didn't love the jerseys necessarily but what he has done overall has been really good stuff.  Don't knock the return of the Pacman.  That was golden.

 

[StrayDogThaGawd]

44 minutes ago, AHF said:

When did you and @Sothron start hanging out?

 

 

Seriously, I'm on board with Koonin.  Didn't love the jerseys necessarily but what he has done overall has been really good stuff.  Don't knock the return of the Pacman.  That was golden.

 

Love the Pac: bringing it back was genius, but I hate the color scheme.  I wish we'd have done what Sacto and Phila did: straight up classic look instead of focusing so much on the millennials, which is Koonin's real crime.  Save the lime green for hats and t-shirts at Lids, not the official jersey   When I saw the leaked new font for the jerseys a few years ago, I was excited about bringing back the red, yellow, and white color scheme, because alot of old school fans (and even some young bucks that loved the 1980's look) preferred it over the 100 changes over the years.  Keep that sh*t simple.  What we have now makes it hard to watch these dudes with a straight face, and I'm not even sure the young 'uns like how the uniform and court look.

Other than than, I hope the front office makes the right choice on talent, and frankly, I'm not expecting Sap to be here.

[thecampster]

On 6/7/2017 at 4:59 PM, macdaddy said:

Sap's not going to want to go to those 3 though.   He's looking for money for sure but he's also looking for winning.   Those teams are a long ways away.  

Homage bet?  Sap signs with the Hawks, I start a thread singing your praises as smartest squawker ever. Sap signs with one of those 3 teams, you do the same for me.  Do we have a bet?  Sap signs elsewhere and we both post rude and unapologetic references about Lurker and NBASupes.

 

[thecampster]

On 6/7/2017 at 4:35 PM, thecampster said:

Because I honestly didn't want to take the time to defend it (and in no order), Sacramento, Indiana and Denver. Realistically because I think Sap's price tag is too high for us and those teams need talent at the 4 for various reasons.

And FYI, I don't see him getting the max anywhere but I do see him getting $26-28 million elsewhere.

Just so you know this isn't just wild speculation on my part.

https://nugglove.com/2017/05/31/denver-paul-millsap/

http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2017/1/6/14189640/sacramento-kings-atlanta-hawks-paul-millsap-trade-rumor

http://hoopshabit.com/2017/02/19/indiana-pacers-3-potential-trade-targets-pair-paul-george/3/

[TheNorthCydeRises]

On 6/7/2017 at 4:37 PM, Peoriabird said:

This is the kind of coach the Hawks Need

 

Put some of these out there, and Bud could do strength training like that.

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

13 hours ago, StrayDogThaGawd said:

Start by reining in Koonin.  His marking decisions are making the team look like clowns (read: jerseys), while other teams are bringing back some solid old logos and jerseys.  While it doesn't affect gameplay, I know a ton of people that laugh their asses off when I try to bring them to a game, and their response is, "yeah, when they stop wearing lime green like some and1 street ballers!" 

I'm in Tennessee, and I get hella compliments from kids/teens when I wear my black Teague jersey and my red Millsap jersey.   The new jerseys are definitely a hit with people 25 and under.   And all of the newer t-shirts are much better than the old ones.

All the Hawks need to do now, is bust out in these joints.  Blind everybody.