Schlenk > "Competitive" = winning 30-something games

[Buzzard]

6 hours ago, AHF said:

Sounds a lot like he is planning for lottery territory this season and no Sap.

I agree with this 100%. So long as we had Dwight, Sap, and Schröder I did not see us missing the playoffs. As soon as he traded Dwight and only gained roughly 5 million in cap this year, I knew we were lottery bound. Sap is next and I do not think we will gain a lot for us this season. We can only hope it is a SNT that nets us something for the future.

His statements also reflect to me he does not like playing slow ball. Dwight and Sap were not the quickest big man duo up and down the floor by anyone's imagination.

Edited June 30, 2017 by Buzzard

[Admin]

4 hours ago, CP61 said:

I agree that it's notable that he didn't mention Dennis. Strange since he's the same age as Taurean.

I believe it had more to do with not wanting to recognize what Ferry did in the draft whereas Budcox are still here so he wanted to acknowledge the guy they chose in the 1st. 

[Admin]

3 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I agree with this 100%. So long as we had Dwight, Sap, and Schröder I did not see us missing the playoffs. As soon as he traded Dwight and only gained roughly 5 million in cap this year, I knew we were lottery bound. Sap is next and I do not think we will gain a lot for us this season. We can only hope it is a SNT that nets us something for the future.

His statements also reflect to me he does not like playing slow ball. Dwight and Sap were not the quickest big man duo up and down the floor by anyone's imagination.

We can get a lot more than 5 million in cap room from that trade if we need it. I am beginning to think that they believe Plumlee can do more than he's done and he fits the up and down style very well. 

[Buzzard]

6 minutes ago, Dolfan23 said:

We can get a lot more than 5 million in cap room from that trade if we need it. I am beginning to think that they believe Plumlee can do more than he's done and he fits the up and down style very well. 

Next year we can do ok. I am talking about this year. Now if you are talking about trades that have not happened, you can say the same thing before the Dwight trade. It is always possible we may make a deal that nets us more cap; but that deal in hand did not get us a lot. Which is what I am referring too.

And I hate the idea he may think Plumlee is a starting caliber center. I would rather have ZaZa back right now.

Edited June 30, 2017 by Buzzard

[Admin]

3 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Next year we can do ok. I am talking about this year. Now if you are talking about trades that have not happened, you can say the same thing before the Dwight trade. It is always possible we may make a deal that nets us more cap; but that deal in hand did not get us a lot. Which is what I am referring too.

And I hate the idea he may think Plumlee is a starting caliber center. I would rather have ZaZa back right now.

I am saying this year. We can cut Plumlee and stretch his cap hit over 7 years which if I recall gives us another 7-8 million on top of the 5 we already have. But we'd be on the hook for the next 7 years for something like 5 million per for him.

[Lurker]

There is more that you have to evaluate than just the surface when it comes to bad teams, but IMO, a full tank would take at least 6 years (it's not happening here), and a partial tank at least 3 years.

The best case scenario is Boston. They bottomed out for only one year (and yes, they were truly rebuilding, don't lie, don't dress it up to make it look prettier, they were rebuilding) and then after that they have been solid or better. They did what I would call a partial tank.

But what I mean is if you truly want to evaluate rebuilding in any form vs being very happy with being solid and nothing more unless you stumble onto a transformational player by accident, you have to also evaluate the type of organization. Some organizations, like Sacramento and New York once Phil Jackson got there are just dysfunctional. Some organizations, like the Lakers, were being held up by Kobe Bryant wanting to do a stupid "farewell" tour.

I could go farther, but in the case of this, you can't just say "mwah AAU is terrible! mwah one and dones suck and should never be picked early!" You have to also look at mistakes made by the organization.

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, DBac said:

This is part of the context of that series, but why do Hawks fans always like to ignore how Kyrie barely played and Love was out? Yet they still got swept.

That whole postseason was odd. Mild scare against Brooklyn but whatever. Then vs Washington Wall breaks his hand and Paul Pierce decides to turn back the clock every time a game got close but finally we closed em out. 

That season was fun though. Every now and then I go back and watch highlights. Just goes to show that if the team is fun the fans will be there.

you take away korver and dmc and the hawks lose alot.  So much that they cant stop lebron

[TheNorthCydeRises]

6 hours ago, Vol4ever said:

Well looks like the clown show has arrived in the ATL.   They are putting a bar next to the court for that nightly ass whippin we will get wont feel as bad..........

It's funny.  Nashville sports talk radio was talking about the Hawks ( something that NEVER happens ). . . and the new arena renovations this afternoon.  It caught their eye mainly because Zac Brown has something slightly similar set up in Bridgestone Arena in Nashville, for the Nashville Predators games.  But the thing that caught their eye was the bar/club behind the basket.  They thought that was a unique idea.

Overall though, they said that the Hawks were setting up their own version of a "condo community" inside of the arena, to take the fans minds off of the basketball team.

Once the renovations are done, this will probably work . . for a little while at least.

[Admin]

15 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

It's funny.  Nashville sports talk radio was talking about the Hawks ( something that NEVER happens ). . . and the new arena renovations this afternoon.  It caught their eye mainly because Zac Brown has something slightly similar set up in Bridgestone Arena in Nashville, for the Nashville Predators games.  But the thing that caught their eye was the bar/club behind the basket.  They thought that was a unique idea.

Overall though, they said that the Hawks were setting up their own version of a "condo community" inside of the arena, to take the fans minds off of the basketball team.

Once the renovations are done, this will probably work . . for a little while at least.

Kinda like the "cool" pool idea that the Jaguars had to take their fans minds off of their play on the field? 

I think the barbershop idea is pretty great but I'm not digging the bar.  I can't imagine how distracting that be for players but most of all, how the hell can you put a bar that close to Bud? I mean that just doesn't seem right to me. 

[Admin]

2 hours ago, Lurker said:

There is more that you have to evaluate than just the surface when it comes to bad teams, but IMO, a full tank would take at least 6 years (it's not happening here), and a partial tank at least 3 years.

The best case scenario is Boston. They bottomed out for only one year (and yes, they were truly rebuilding, don't lie, don't dress it up to make it look prettier, they were rebuilding) and then after that they have been solid or better. They did what I would call a partial tank.

But what I mean is if you truly want to evaluate rebuilding in any form vs being very happy with being solid and nothing more unless you stumble onto a transformational player by accident, you have to also evaluate the type of organization. Some organizations, like Sacramento and New York once Phil Jackson got there are just dysfunctional. Some organizations, like the Lakers, were being held up by Kobe Bryant wanting to do a stupid "farewell" tour.

I could go farther, but in the case of this, you can't just say "mwah AAU is terrible! mwah one and dones suck and should never be picked early!" You have to also look at mistakes made by the organization.

The Celtics also had some serious trade chips to kick off their "tanking" plan. KG, Pierce, Allen plus a desperate Nets team. They also have the allure of being the Celtics to draw free agent & trade interest and the Hawks will never be able to compete with that. 

[BigDog90]

12 hours ago, HawkItus said:

Here is your treadmill folks.  I do like the "We want to be exciting" quote.  As I said in another thread be fun again.  Give us the highlight factory.

Any GM can say anything in a press conference. I got to see his actions. Right now, I see they got an injury prone center, Millsap is on his way out so I expect the win total to drop tremendously. I could see Schlenk getting pieces to run Bud's system better but I don't expect the Blake Griffin's, Gordon Hayward's, etc. in a Hawks uniform next season.

[EazyRoc]

13 hours ago, Diesel said:

Some of the facts elude you.

DMC with a busted knee. 

Korver was Dellibadovered. Missed games 2-4.

Teague was gimpy going in.

Alice forgot her athletic bra.

Sap had a torn Labrum.

We fought so hard to get to the ECF that when we finally got there we were so beat up that we were easy pickens... but then again... all a lot of people only remember is the score.

You're right because in the end the score is all that matters. Falcons had a phenomenal season last year, but all that went out the window with a heartbreaking loss.

[EazyRoc]

10 hours ago, KB21 said:

Yeah, we will certainly change the culture from a winning culture to a losing culture.  Just remember the lottery treadmill that I posted yesterday.  

Our "winning" culture did nothing to help us. Free agents weren't looking at Atlanta thinking "I'm the missing link to making this team a contender." So we weren't going to achieve significant improvement from free agency. We don't have enough valuable assets to add a difference maker via trade. We were also too good to add any real talent through the draft. We were by definition on a treadmill. One where we make the playoffs and get destroyed by LeBron at some point. Hell we didn't even make it THAT far this year. Our team was trending downward and any moves to maintain status quo would've left us worse off in the years to come. We spent the last couple of years delaying the inevitable. We have to bring more young talent into this team. Dennis and Prince aren't enough (and I really hope Prince develops into something more than an above average 3-D player). 

[BrazilianHawk]

This mofo looks like he's giving Millsap the JJ treatment.
I hate Gearon so much. He could have had a Finals appearence by now if not for him.

[KB21]

23 minutes ago, EazyRoc said:

Our "winning" culture did nothing to help us. Free agents weren't looking at Atlanta thinking "I'm the missing link to making this team a contender." So we weren't going to achieve significant improvement from free agency. We don't have enough valuable assets to add a difference maker via trade. We were also too good to add any real talent through the draft. We were by definition on a treadmill. One where we make the playoffs and get destroyed by LeBron at some point. Hell we didn't even make it THAT far this year. Our team was trending downward and any moves to maintain status quo would've left us worse off in the years to come. We spent the last couple of years delaying the inevitable. We have to bring more young talent into this team. Dennis and Prince aren't enough (and I really hope Prince develops into something more than an above average 3-D player). 

That's exactly what the Sacramento Kings believed........and the Phoenix Suns.............and the Orlando Magic.............and the LA Lakers..................and the Philadelphia 76ers................and the Minnesota Timberwolves................and the Charlotte Hornets..............and the New Orleans Pelicans.  

They all decided to "get younger", and they are all stuck in the lottery and have been for 5+ years.  Heck, even the Utah Jazz now that they have actually broken through are probably looking at going back into the lottery if they lose Gordon Haywood.

Also, good luck trying to attract a free agent to a losing organization.

Edited June 30, 2017 by KB21

[AHF]

12 hours ago, KB21 said:

Yeah, we will certainly change the culture from a winning culture to a losing culture.  Just remember the lottery treadmill that I posted yesterday.  

Did it include Cleveland and Golden State?

[High5]

It has been said a million times, but trying to win a championship without drafting elite talent in the lottery has been proven to be virtually impossible. Which makes the cautionary tales of dropping into the lottery completely pointless unless your only concern is making a quick appearance in the playoffs each season. I would like to at least believe the Hawks have a chance at a championship one day. The only way that can ever happen is taking a few steps back now. 

[Admin]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

That's exactly what the Sacramento Kings believed........and the Phoenix Suns.............and the Orlando Magic.............and the LA Lakers..................and the Philadelphia 76ers................and the Minnesota Timberwolves................and the Charlotte Hornets..............and the New Orleans Pelicans.  

They all decided to "get younger", and they are all stuck in the lottery and have been for 5+ years.  Heck, even the Utah Jazz now that they have actually broken through are probably looking at going back into the lottery if they lose Gordon Haywood.

Also, good luck trying to attract a free agent to a losing organization.

Sure they made a lot of mistakes but the Suns have some great talent and an emerging superstar in Devin Booker.

Orlando doesn't have a clue what they're doing but that's a function of their lack of skills at the GM position. The Kings are cursed and the only thing that will fix them is relocation, new ownership and management. Maybe even retraction. 

I'm not a fan of what the Hornets have done but they could have easily built that team differently if they had a different philosophy on the types of players they draft.

The Wolves have the most talent they've ever had and are led by the best young big man in the game in KAT and a loaded starting unit that now includes one of the best young veterans in Jimmy Butler.

The Sixers are absolutely loaded now with Embiid, Simmons, Fultz, Saric and have a very bright future once they get a couple solid vets to teach them how to win.

And the Pelicans? Get them a strong veteran PG who can come in and control the team on the floor and then just have average players at 2 and 3 to pair with the best young frontcourt in the game. 

IF Ball is who they think he is then holy cow they've got their next superstar both on and off the court. They've re-built their team pretty quickly considering how long Kobe held them hostage at the end. And guess who wants to play there? PG and Lebron and free agents better than either of them don't come along very often. Of course they're the Lakers so they have history on their side plus Los Angeles... but you can't tell me that good free agents wouldn't want to go to any of these talented young teams to get them over the hump. 

If you believe that tanking and building with young talent would be a bad idea in Atlanta because of trying to attract free agents then I have to ask how that's any different than building with mid-1st round picks and solid veterans and 10 straight years of being in the playoffs has affected signing free agents. In 10 years we've vastly overpaid to get Joe Johnson to come here and to stay here. We got Dwight Howard at the end of his career when he didn't have many options left. And we got Paul Millsap, who pretty much said he came here because of the system we were running plus his friendship with Korver. Speaking of Korver, he didn't even want to come to Atlanta when we traded for him. I'm pretty sure his opinion has changed since then but it still doesn't speak well for what all that "winning" did for us and how free agents see us. 

[Admin]

7 minutes ago, High5 said:

It has been said a million times, but trying to win a championship without drafting elite talent in the lottery has been proven to be virtually impossible. Which makes the cautionary tales of dropping into the lottery completely pointless unless your only concern is making a quick appearance in the playoffs each season. I would like to at least believe the Hawks have a chance at a championship one day. The only way that can ever happen is taking a few steps back now. 

I don't think it's impossible. Assume that Prince and Dennis are for real and that we have 2/5ths of our starting lineup set.  

Let's assume we continue to pick in the mid-teens for the next couple of years. We have had a lot of success picking NBA players in that range with Teague (used to get Prince), Dennis, Prince (a little higher but still not high lottery), Bembry (at least from the limited time we saw him last year) and hopefully now with Collins. We also used a mid 1st to get THjr and he may be a building block for the future if he can keep growing. The only failures we've had in that range are Bebe, Payne (still think if healthy he'd have been a player...but could have had Harris in that spot), and Jenkins (when the new GM had 3 days to plan for the draft). Then we also have some potential for making it with Cordinier and Dorsey... and maybe even Kaba someday. Those are quality bench players who can get you some points in a hurry. 

So give us 2 more mid-1st round picks in the next 2 years while winning about half of our games. We'll have a ton of cap room, big contracts that can be traded with Plumlee and Baze, plus a lot of young talent. We'll have the renovated Philips, someone seen as one of the best coaches in the game plus an ownership that won't hinder us from signing players and may even help. 

Is that enough to get you a championship? I don't know but by then Lebron is either out of the East or he's close to hanging them up. We'd have enough assets and cap room to add 2-3 max level veterans to a young team on rookie contracts. THAT is how you can win. Now, we can't fail with those mid-1st round picks, but the same could be said in the high lottery and probably even moreso as we saw in the 1st decade of the 2000's with the picks we wasted on Marvin, Shelly, Chillz, and Law.

[KB21]

31 minutes ago, Dolfan23 said:

Sure they made a lot of mistakes but the Suns have some great talent and an emerging superstar in Devin Booker.

Orlando doesn't have a clue what they're doing but that's a function of their lack of skills at the GM position. The Kings are cursed and the only thing that will fix them is relocation, new ownership and management. Maybe even retraction. 

I'm not a fan of what the Hornets have done but they could have easily built that team differently if they had a different philosophy on the types of players they draft.

The Wolves have the most talent they've ever had and are led by the best young big man in the game in KAT and a loaded starting unit that now includes one of the best young veterans in Jimmy Butler.

The Sixers are absolutely loaded now with Embiid, Simmons, Fultz, Saric and have a very bright future once they get a couple solid vets to teach them how to win.

And the Pelicans? Get them a strong veteran PG who can come in and control the team on the floor and then just have average players at 2 and 3 to pair with the best young frontcourt in the game. 

IF Ball is who they think he is then holy cow they've got their next superstar both on and off the court. They've re-built their team pretty quickly considering how long Kobe held them hostage at the end. And guess who wants to play there? PG and Lebron and free agents better than either of them don't come along very often. Of course they're the Lakers so they have history on their side plus Los Angeles... but you can't tell me that good free agents wouldn't want to go to any of these talented young teams to get them over the hump. 

If you believe that tanking and building with young talent would be a bad idea in Atlanta because of trying to attract free agents then I have to ask how that's any different than building with mid-1st round picks and solid veterans and 10 straight years of being in the playoffs has affected signing free agents. In 10 years we've vastly overpaid to get Joe Johnson to come here and to stay here. We got Dwight Howard at the end of his career when he didn't have many options left. And we got Paul Millsap, who pretty much said he came here because of the system we were running plus his friendship with Korver. Speaking of Korver, he didn't even want to come to Atlanta when we traded for him. I'm pretty sure his opinion has changed since then but it still doesn't speak well for what all that "winning" did for us and how free agents see us. 

Let me know when any of those teams actually make the playoffs.