Why did John Collins fall in the draft?

[BigDog90]

1 hour ago, aali34 said:

What he did in college is a bit different than what he is doing now. At Wake Forest a majority of his points came from posting up. Scouts and NBA teams were questionable about whether or not he could play the power forward position, his offensive awareness, whether he could defend at an NBA level, and as stated earlier shooting.

Right now he's making himself look like lottery pick and proving other teams wrong. His activity in the pick and roll is amazing, not just popping or rolling hard to the basket, but also creating space and making plays for others. His defense is better than most thought but could still stand too improve. The encouraging part is that its totally fixable since its more about fundamentals and technique for him than it is about physical disadvantages like speed, size, and athleticism( ex - Isiah Thomas, Kevin Love).

As for shooting, he seems to have a great mid-range shot and could possibly extend it out to three, but I would pull the brakes on it for now during his rookie season.

 

I would think his best position is C. He could be like a Nerlens Noel type player there.

[DrReality]

19 minutes ago, Dejay said:

Like an effin funnel cloud about to touch down in the front yard of your house...

LMFAO

[marco102]

3 minutes ago, BigDog90 said:

I would think his best position is C. He could be like a Nerlens Noel type player there.

Are you referring to Collins being similar to Noel? If so, they are complete opposites as far as players go.

[aali34]

5 minutes ago, BigDog90 said:

I would think his best position is C. He could be like a Nerlens Noel type player there.

I would have to disagree. He and Nerlens have completely different play styles. JC is more Blake Griffin than he is Nerlens(not saying that he is Blake).

Personally, I would like my center to be a rim protector/shot blocker. Collins doesn't have the size or length to be a full time center. But he can function as a small ball five in certain lineups.

Edited July 11, 2017 by aali34

[Final_quest]

Questions I have about Collins:

1. Is he our only pick and roll big man on the roster?  Meaning who else can we run the pick and roll with apart from Collins?

2. Will his defense be good enough to start on day one?  One reason I am so interested in signing someone like Dedmon is that it makes it easier to play Collins.  If we kept Crawford as trade bait, we couldn't afford to sign players that allow our team to improve like Dedmon.  

3. What PF should we sign to pair with him?  

4. How will he look as a shooter night in and out?  Will coaches having him shooting 3's?   

[DrReality]

Who's our big man coach who will mentor him?  Need someone who'll teach him to muscle inside. 

[Peoriabird]

It's so weird sometime here!! The same guys will look at a guy's performance in college and draw all kinds of conclusions but once he plays against the best college players and pros in summer league,  the competitions isn't good enough to conclude anything. Just bizarre to me

[noble]

11 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

It's so weird sometime here!! The same guys will look at a guy's performance in college and draw all kinds of conclusions but once he plays against the best college players and pros in summer league,  the competitions isn't good enough to conclude anything. Just bizarre to me

College is funny in a way. You play more of a team style, a longer schedule, and more pressure than SL, however not everyone in college will sniff the NBA. In SL you have guys trying to make a roster or develop, but the short schedule and lack of a full offensive play package as well as marginal D makes it hard to evaluate against real, tested NBA players and talent. 

There can be merit in both. Seeing how a guy develops over a longer season, plays as a team, and under pressure in college is great. In SL it is good to evaluate basic BB IQ and how they develop certain parts of their game.

[AHF]

16 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

It's so weird sometime here!! The same guys will look at a guy's performance in college and draw all kinds of conclusions but once he plays against the best college players and pros in summer league,  the competitions isn't good enough to conclude anything. Just bizarre to me

You have followed how unreliable summer league performance is as a predictor of future performance right?

Here are some recent All-Summer-League First Team award winners:

Jordan McRae

Tyus Jones

Alan Williams

Bobby Portis

TJ Warren

Seth Curry

Doug McDermott

Kyle Anderson

Tony Snell

Glen Rice

etc.

 

Last 3 Summer League MVPs are:

Tyus Jones

Kyle Anderson

Glen Rice

 

It is nice to do well in the summer league but it is like playing And-1 basketball.  Even when the competition is good there is so little organization and structure that it is really tough to carry forward any type of predictability for future NBA performance.

[AHF]

All that said, I do really enjoy what we are seeing from Collins and am very excited about him.  I just am not going to start layering any expectations on him based on summer league play.

[Peoriabird]

3 hours ago, AHF said:

You have followed how unreliable summer league performance is as a predictor of future performance right?

Here are some recent All-Summer-League First Team award winners:

Jordan McRae

Tyus Jones

Alan Williams

Bobby Portis

TJ Warren

Seth Curry

Doug McDermott

Kyle Anderson

Tony Snell

Glen Rice

etc.

 

Last 3 Summer League MVPs are:

Tyus Jones

Kyle Anderson

Glen Rice

 

It is nice to do well in the summer league but it is like playing And-1 basketball.  Even when the competition is good there is so little organization and structure that it is really tough to carry forward any type of predictability for future NBA performance.

Glen Rice in his 1st stint in summer league average 6.7 ppg shot 22% from the field

http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2015/statistics/orlando/

Tyrus jones averaged 7.8 points per game 40% from the field 2 rpg

http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2015/statistics/las_vegas/

Kyle Anderson average 14 ppg shot 34% from the field.

http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2015/statistics/utah/

John Collin 15 ppg shooting 60% 10.7 rpg

http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2017/stats#vegas

I don't think that their stats are equal to John Collins but if you do so be it.  To each it own

 

[Peoriabird]

My mistake Kyle Anderson was drafted in 2014 and his stats were 8ppg shooting 40% 3 rpg

http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2014/statistics/las_vegas/?iref:nba:sl:subnav

Glen Robinson was also drafted in 2014  7.7 ppg 38.5% from the filed 3 rpg

http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2014/statistics/las_vegas/?iref:nba:sl:subnav

[Peoriabird]

I don't know why people report fake news to beat down Hawk players.  But whatever.

[aali34]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I don't know why people report fake news to beat down Hawk players.  But whatever.

What do you mean?

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, aali34 said:

What do you mean?

Saying that the above 3 player's (GRIII, Tyrus Jones, and Kyle Anderson) 1st summer league experience was similar to Collin.  That was simply not true and the only thing I can conclude is that there is some type of agenda against Hawks players.  Usually a fan base and writers build up a team and it potential star player but not Atlanta.  Fans here do the total opposite which is getting old.

[wolvetigers]

7 hours ago, Wurider05 said:

He seems like a solid player from what we have seen so far.  I know that its only summer league but he does a lot of the small things.  I remember when Josh fell in the draft and they reported that it was due to his work ethic and attitude. Turns out that was on the spot. 

This was a heavy backcourt heavy draft, 5 PGs, 3 SG, 3 SF were going early...Collins defense was suspect, but I'm definitely not complaining that he fell to us....Bud's offense and defensive expectations will be challenging for him early on; but since we are rebuilding, Collins will start or atleast be the first person off the bench. 

[Alex]

Lots of funny comments here.  Way too much sunshine blowing for a guy over a summer league play.  You guys need to a get a grip.  This is absurd.

[Peoriabird]

17 minutes ago, Alex said:

Lots of funny comments here.  Way too much sunshine blowing for a guy over a summer league play.  You guys need to a get a grip.  This is absurd.

His resume is more than just his summer league stats.  Dude led the nation in per last year...Oh that probably doesn't count either since he is a Hawk now.  My Bad

[DS5]

24 minutes ago, Alex said:

Lots of funny comments here.  Way too much sunshine blowing for a guy over a summer league play.  You guys need to a get a grip.  This is absurd.

Said the guy who thought Payne was a good player. 

[hazer]

8 minutes ago, DS5 said:

Said the guy who thought Payne was a good player.