Kyrie Irving to ATL - ESPN Trade Ideas

[Kimsey]

KI is not worth it right now. It made sense with Dwight, Millsap, THJ, along with Prince and Bembry coming on.

DS has to get bigger and stronger to realize his truer potential. The Iverson physique isn't doing him any favors. Once you see him at the 185-190 range is where you will see him move up a tier.  

[Vol4ever]

3 hours ago, sturt said:

The premise supposes we're trying.

We aren't.

And even if we had him, we shouldn't be... by any measure, we're at best 2-3 years away from being in the position to contend.

I don't get why this is so hard to fathom, except that there seems to be some star-struck-ness going on here, obliterating any sense for where this roster stands.

He would die if they sent him to ATL.  He wants to be the man on a winning team, not on a sunken ship.  

[Diesel]

Just read where Phoenix would do a Bledsoe/Jackson for Kyrie trade.   In that, I saw no place for Goldie. I think for us to get in on that deal, we would have to send Phoenix a ton of first rounders and then more.

 

BUT.

Would you send Goldie and Collins to Phoenix for Irving?

Phoenix needs a real PF and Chriss may not be it. 

So the trade.

Bledsoe/Jackson to Cleveland.  Schro and Collins to Phoneix.  Kyrie to Atlanta.

Next offseason, we have a lottery pick.. and we go after Klay.

 

[DBac]

7 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Just read where Phoenix would do a Bledsoe/Jackson for Kyrie trade.   In that, I saw no place for Goldie. I think for us to get in on that deal, we would have to send Phoenix a ton of first rounders and then more.

 

BUT.

Would you send Goldie and Collins to Phoenix for Irving?

Phoenix needs a real PF and Chriss may not be it. 

So the trade.

Bledsoe/Jackson to Cleveland.  Schro and Collins to Phoneix.  Kyrie to Atlanta.

Next offseason, we have a lottery pick.. and we go after Klay.

 

Phoenix says no to that, I probably do too. Chriss > Collins right now. That might change as soon as this year but he's 20 and made the all rookie team last year. No reason to give up on him for Collins. Similarly Kyrie >>>> Dennis so no reason to do that for them. 

 

Only things I would dangle for Kyrie are Dennis and those picks that we picked up via trade... and Baze (lol). Maybe try to get into a 3 way trade where we send Dennis and (some of) those picks to a team, they send vets to Cleveland, Cleveland sends Kyrie to us or something. At that point though, that team should just take Kyrie themselves. 

[MaceCase]

7 hours ago, capstone21 said:

I don't see Kyrie as anything other then a get mine kind of player.  He is not about winning or team play... he is actually pretty selfish.  He is about getting his stats.  He isn't a good point guard but yes he is an excellent scorer and probably one of the best penetrators(sp) in the league.  He is really a very undersized shooting guards that doesn't play a lick of d.  I don't know if he is a guy you come out for.  I don't put him in that type of player who people got to go see.  He is also going to cost a lot to get.  The cost for the return ... I just don't think it is to our advantage to pursue a guy like that.

He isn't a particularly good penetrator.  When he gets to the hoop, sure, him and Curry can finish with the best of them but their dribble exhibitions predominantly lead to jumpers.  There's a slew of guards, including Dennis, that get a much larger percentage of shots at the rim.

[lburner30342]

On ‎7‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 7:44 AM, hazer said:

It is an intriguing possibility. The rub being are Hawks then left without Kyrie, Dennis, and some picks in 2020?

who give a fuc#$ about 2020 I want him here now... only you and the Atlanta braves are worried about 2020 lol

[AHF]

36 minutes ago, lburner30342 said:

who give a fuc#$ about 2020 I want him here now... only you and the Atlanta braves are worried about 2020 lol

I think the point is that you have to build intelligently.  You want on your players on the same trajectory - i.e., under team control at the time the team gets good.  So landing Kyrie now will not make us contenders now.  Adding him to blossoming young talent in a few years would be much better timing as far as coordinating our near term goals and long-term ones.  The last few years adding Kyrie would have been great because our core then was vets who were at the peak of their game and looking to win now (and the ideal movie today trading for a super talented rookie who may take a few years to reach peak levels of impact would not have been the ideal move at that time since we were truly in win now mode).

[hazer]

2 hours ago, lburner30342 said:

who give a fuc#$ about 2020 I want him here now... only you and the Atlanta braves are worried about 2020 lol

 

[LucastheThird]

10 minutes ago, hazer said:

https://i.imgflip.com/it71y.jpg

Be nice to the new members lol. He wants to win now and not see our team lose a lot for a few years.

[ATLien_]

5 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think the point is that you have to build intelligently.  You want on your players on the same trajectory - i.e., under team control at the time the team gets good.  So landing Kyrie now will not make us contenders now.  Adding him to blossoming young talent in a few years would be much better timing as far as coordinating our near term goals and long-term ones.  The last few years adding Kyrie would have been great because our core then was vets who were at the peak of their game and looking to win now (and the ideal movie today trading for a super talented rookie who may take a few years to reach peak levels of impact would not have been the ideal move at that time since we were truly in win now mode).

If we only have to give up Dennis and a couple of 1st, then I make this move all day any day, and I'm one of the biggest Kyrie detractors ever to walk this earth. The whole point of this rebuild is to get a Superstar or find a Star that other star's want to play with. I don't believe Kyrie is a true Superstar, but he is clearly a player that other stars will want to play with. He's likely one of the main reasons Lebron went back to Cleveland.  I crap on Kyrie a lot, but it's mostly because people overrate him.

You don't often get an opportunity to get a player of this caliber at 25, and he is an elite scorer and closer despite all his flaws. We talk about Hawks U all the time, why can't Kyrie get better at his flaws under Bud's tutelage? We always want to take bums and make them 4 or 5th starters, but why can't we make Kyrie into the Superstar he should be? He certainly has the talent.

As far as losing him in 2 years that's on Schlenk and Bud. If you can't trade for or convince another star to come play with Kyrie in 2 years, then you're probably not the people for the Job. Ressler put some pressure on these guys. Show me you need to win and don't just want to win. If we went into the lottery for the next 3 years we would be lucky to get a player as good as Kyrie, and even if we did we would need to pair him with 3 others to compete. Lebron level players aren't walking through that door; all time greats don't come often. Our model should be the Celtic model; take 3 guys that weren't good enough by themselves to get a ring and pair them together. That's an infinitely more likely scenario than finding the next Lebron, Kobe, Shaq etc.. through the draft.

[Diesel]

They say we have a 33 and 1 chance of getting Kyrie.

That's a little weird being that they are only 29 other teams that he can go to?

[JTB]

13 minutes ago, Diesel said:

They say we have a 33 and 1 chance of getting Kyrie.

That's a little weird being that they are only 29 other teams that he can go to?

Yeah I mean that's all just crap . Reality is that any team with assets of decent players and draft picks and are WILLING to do a massive trade can ultimately get kyrie.

but the reality also is that not too many teams are willing to do a massive trade to get his services ...mainly because of the fear he'd leave in two years.

the fear could be off set if he agrees to an extension but that highly unlikely to happen.

Edited July 26, 2017 by JTB

[hazer]

2 hours ago, lburner30342 said:

who give a fuc#$ about 2020 I want him here now... only you and the Atlanta braves are worried about 2020 lol

The prize (ECFs) actually lies in 2020-21. Keep your eye on it 

[Diesel]

9 minutes ago, hazer said:

The prize (ECFs) actually lies in 2020-21. Keep your eye on it 

[hazer]

13 minutes ago, Diesel said:

You keep forgetting I was there too 

[Diesel]

Just now, hazer said:

You keep forgetting I was there too 

Dude it took this franchise 51 years to get to the ECF.  You think we "retool" with a mediocre PG and we will be back in 3... Yeah.. get me some of the stuff that you're smoking... I need to dream of being a billionaire by Thursday. 

[hazer]

4 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Dude it took this franchise 51 years to get to the ECF.  You think we "retool" with a mediocre PG and we will be back in 3... Yeah.. get me some of the stuff that you're smoking... I need to dream of being a billionaire by Thursday. 

17-18, 18-19, 19-20, 20-21, back in 4 actually. At which time I believe The Menace will be 27, a better than mediocre All-Star, or traded for a star PG. Yes 

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, hazer said:

17-18, 18-19, 19-20, 20-21, back in 4 actually. At which time I believe The Menace will be 27, a better than mediocre All-Star, or traded for a star PG. Yes 

[AHF]

In fairness, had we kept trying to win as many games as possible every season after where we finished last year we weren't exactly on the road to ringville.

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, AHF said:

In fairness, had we kept trying to win as many games as possible every season after where we finished last year we weren't exactly on the road to ringville.

There's not guarantee that we get back with this plan.   There's few generational talents in the next 3 drafts.. so building through the draft is just an exercise in mediocrity.