Kyrie Irving to ATL - ESPN Trade Ideas

[DS5]

This is my pipe dream scenario. We trade for Irving, but only giving up Dennis and 1 1st rounder. Next off-season, we trade for Klay (Warriors will have to trade him, IMO) for fillers and 3 1st rounders, I think we should have enough cap space to not have to send as much salary back. You then convince them both to re-sign with the Hawks long-term and build around Irving/Thompson/Prince/Collins. 

[capstone21]

He is one of the most overrated players in the league

[EazyRoc]

You have to wonder why he would want to leave a team that gives him the best chance to win a championship. LeBron doesn't have a reputation as a bad teammate and players have been tripping over theirselves just to ride the bench and win a ring where ever he went. Now Kyrie wants out ? I think he lacks maturity and would not be a good addition in the long term here. 

[capstone21]

Btw, this isn't a rumor ... just an idea ESPN offered up

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, capstone21 said:

I couldn't have less interest in having Irving in a Hawks uni.

delusions of grandeur along with 0 defense and the fact that he doesn't pass is not appealing at all.

he is a me first guy ... he is not a team player

Well, I think a guy like him who has been there before and who wants to win a championship with his own team is what we need.  I'm speaking for the city now.  The city needs that star who says... I have won before and I want to take the continual losing team and win with them. 

[Diesel]

44 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I don't want Irving. I don't like with  a passion point guards that are selfish and won't pass. I used to play point guard in college and it kills me to see that kind of play style. I'd rather keep Dennis.

[Thomas]

Well if nothing else the Rose signing keeps it interesting in that the Cavs have four point guards under contract right now. Kyrie, Rose, Felder and Jose. So would guess that sooner or later Kyrie gets appeased by someone but he might not appreciate his destination so much. As the world turns, in Cleveland.

[JTB]

Im all for going out to get Kyrie but this does not need to take place unless the hawks organization as a whole (mainly Schlenk & Bud) has more than a few ways of finding a way to keep kyrie and sign him to an extension. I get we could always trade him the next off season but if this is the path the organization choose as far as going out to get him there need to be several internal discussions immediately right now on what they'd do & how they'd plan to keep him long term.

 

Kyrie as our PG changes the outcome of needs from other players on the roster compared to Dennis:

Going out to get Kyrie for just 2 years could surely be a good thing since we'd get a star and bad thing if we only keep him for two years. But perhaps the weapons needed around him are already in place. For example I can then see how bazemore is more valuable paired to Kyrie than he is to dennis. Bazemore has the talent and skillset to effectively guards SGs and not so much SF's but with Prince emerging and Bembry showing he can be a decent defender at SF off the bench... Kyrie being added will help Baze get back to 3 & D primarily at SG and perhaps have a breakout season with Kyrie running point since Kyrie demands the ball a lot more than Dennis and is actual more gifted offensively than Dennis therefore the need for another playmaker on the court with Kyrie lessens by a lot . Now thats not to say Im saying Kyrie will come in and heavy iso Im saying he's just better with the ball in his hands than dennis as far as scoring. But lets get back to the heavy ISO thing, it was reported that Kyrie was very upset that David Blatt got fired because he wanted to try the euro play style but Lebron wanted his buddy Lue as head coach so thats what happened. I for one believe Kyrie is willing and wanting to play in a ball moving offense but he just wants to be the focal point while doing so. 

Back to Kyrie vs Dennis...see theres a difference with Kyrie running point vs dennis. Both are scorers but Kyrie is clearly more superior in that department, not that dennis cant go at him or hold his own vs other scoring pgs but Kyrie is a walking 40 point machine on any given night vs any team in the NBA. All we then need is the role guys around him to avg 12-15 pts per game with Collins avg 17-20 pts per game offensively AND of course pick up his slack on defense which I think its actually suitable for this hawks team.

 

Starting Lineup w/ Kyrie:

Pg - Kyrie 30 pts per game (main star on his team, easily can drop 30 pts efficiently, defense may improve BIG time with hawks university, I believe he's willing to run the spurs offense but more than likely will break the offense and go heavy iso in crunch time like most stars)

Sg- Baze 12-15 pts per game (can effectively guard shooting guards defensively and be able to set up better for 3's, no where near as much pressure offensively as the ball won't be needed in his hands to be a playmaker....I don't mind seeing Bembry here by the way but his shot need to improve to play along side Kyrie)

Sf- Prince 12-15 pts per game (looking like an all around player already, that could be considered a rising star beginning his 3rd season)

Pf- Collins 15-20 pts per game (easy candidate for rookie of the year)

C- Dedmon 10 pts per game (good defender in all phases on that side of the game, has a fouling issue but nothing hawks university cant fix....I believe he can be a better rebounder)

 

Thats top 4 playoff team in the east. Defense is in place to help Kyrie and Collins. Bench has shooters in Marco, illayasova, Moose. Speed is there to get out on the break and play fast at all positions in the starting lineup.

[Sothron]

45 minutes ago, DS5 said:

Hasn't that been the main criticism for Dennis, though?

Dennis early on had excellent instincts for passing and finding open players. Bud yelled at him for not being aggressive with his own shot so he's swung the other way. I'm confident that Dennis can find a happy medium between the two.

[Sothron]

41 minutes ago, capstone21 said:

He is one of the most overrated players in the league

I agree with this. He is an excellent clutch performer but he plays no defense and doesn't want to pass. He needs to play next to a Lebron or a Harden to let him play off the ball and get his own shot. He also plays way too much iso ball for my tastes.

[Diesel]

15 minutes ago, EazyRoc said:

You have to wonder why he would want to leave a team that gives him the best chance to win a championship. LeBron doesn't have a reputation as a bad teammate and players have been tripping over theirselves just to ride the bench and win a ring where ever he went. Now Kyrie wants out ? I think he lacks maturity and would not be a good addition in the long term here. 

ESPN has been painting the true Lebron.   Passive Aggressive...  Control Fiend.   Bottom Line is that Lebron made Cleveland make a team to compliment him.  He doesn't share with Kyrie (in private) his intentions for next year.  Therefore, Kyrie is in the position where now is his best chance to move to get a situation that is suited for him.   Kyrie doesn't want to be left with a over the cap rebuilding Cleveland team  that is in the image of Lebron.... once Lebron leaves.   

Lebron has treated Kyrie like a Side piece when in actuality, Kyrie has been a workhorse for Cleveland. 

Last season, Kyrie put up 25, 3, and 6 while shooting 47% and 40% from three and did you hear him in any conversation about MVP?  Kyrie wasn't even in the running.   Isaiah Thomas finished 5th in voting with 28, 3, and 6 shooting  46% and 38% from three.   The reason Kyrie didn't get a mention int he MVP race is because he plays beside Lebron. 

In Last year's playoffs, Kyrie averaged 25, 3 and 5..  In the finals, he was 27, 4,  & 4 and hit the game winning shot of game 7 but he was never considered for the finals MVP.  James won by Unanimous vote.  He's squarely in Lebron's shawdow.

I just dont think that Kyrie can assume the sidekick role.   He's not Dwayne Wade who could always say.. I got rings without Lebron.  Especially not the way it went down.  Lebron came to Cleveland to "win one for the Land" and Kyrie who once was the Cleveland Cavaliers became trusted sidekick but never respected. 

In Atlanta, we would make him the MAN.

[Diesel]

For JTB... I'm not going to quote your whole thesis.  However, here's how I would see it.

 

Kyrie would give us a real three point shooter.  All of Bud's plans work with guys who can knock down the three point shot.  I think that's where the strength of Budball lies.   People say that Teague wasn't aggressive this and that.. by the time Teague left, he was shooting 40% from three and our offense was still working.  We also had Horf hitting shots.   I think if we did go after Kyrie and got him... He would improve our floor spacing tremendously and that would give Baze space to work.  Right now, Schröder's 34% from outside is not enough of a threat for anybody and he other teams know that he's looking to drive.  It makes our floor spacing terrible because he has to move people to create a lane for himself.   Not having an automatic shot from three makes Schro vulnerable and hurts the Budball offense.   Kyrie would make them respect his shot from outside and that would open up things for everybody.   Although Collins is not ready for defense on this level, offensively a face up, post up guy like him... with space... may be trouble for the league.   Sap would be killer playing with a threat like Kyrie in Budball. 

 

[Thomas]

11 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Last season, Kyrie put up 25, 3, and 6 while shooting 47% and 40% from three and did you hear him in any conversation about MVP?  Kyrie wasn't even in the running.   Isaiah Thomas finished 5th in voting with 28, 3, and 6 shooting  46% and 38% from three.   The reason Kyrie didn't get a mention int he MVP race is because he plays beside Lebron. 

Sounds like that really is the core of his trade demand. Perfect example of not ever going to get the recognition he wants with LeBron being on the floor wearing the same color jersey. 

[sturt]

38 minutes ago, capstone21 said:

Btw, this isn't a rumor ... just an idea ESPN offered up

THANK YOU.

Didn't even look at who the original poster is, but would you PLEASE re-title the thread to be ACCURATE?

"Rumor" suggests someone is actually suggesting it's been discussed.

[LucastheThird]

4 minutes ago, sturt said:

THANK YOU.

Didn't even look at who the original poster is, but would you PLEASE re-title the thread to be ACCURATE?

"Rumor" suggests someone is actually suggesting it's been discussed.

It can be discussed here. We weren't listed as one of his top 4 places, but we do have pieces that Cleveland would want and he does not have a no trade clause. Add in the following of some Hawks on Twitter and that's all we need for a 10 page discussion. Throw in an ESPN article mentioning us and we're going for 20 pages.

[Sothron]

To Diesel's post about Kyrie's numbers...what were his numbers before Lebron? He feasts off the attention Lebron gets. What's his numbers with no Lebron on the court? We already know Irving is a horrible defender. I know his offensive numbers go down when he is in fact "THE MAN".

[AHF]

I don't get why Kyrie is pushing this now.  He is basically a free agent after two seasons.  This year he will be on a team that is a heavy favorite to make the finals and the team with the second best odds of winning a title.  

Lebron won't tell him what he is going to do and he doesn't want to get stuck?  Huh?  If LeBron bails and Kyrie doesn't want to stay in Cleveland he will be on an expiring deal which means his worst case is waiting one season and the most likely scenario is that Cleveland deals him for assets (to ensure he doesn't leave them without compensation and that they keep their pick and screw us).

How many chances do guys get to win a ring in their career?  I don't get why he wouldn't try to win a championship this season and then see where things are next summer before deciding on whether to demand a trade or not.  

[sturt]

13 minutes ago, LucastheThird said:

It can be discussed here. We weren't listed as one of his top 4 places, but we do have pieces that Cleveland would want and he does not have a no trade clause. Add in the following of some Hawks on Twitter and that's all we need for a 10 page discussion. Throw in an ESPN article mentioning us and we're going for 20 pages.

Um. Of course, it can.

Who said it couldn't or shouldn't... and as you suggest, most assuredly it will.

My only plea is that subject headers not be written to lure people into thinking there's meat there, when it's actually just fat to chew on.

So, just hoping the OP... I'm now seeing that is @hawkster911... will edit accordingly.

 

[Diesel]

25 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Sounds like that really is the core of his trade demand. Perfect example of not ever going to get the recognition he wants with LeBron being on the floor wearing the same color jersey. 

That and he doesn't have a real relationship with Lebron.  It's funny.  He gave his intentions to be traded to the Cleveland Front Office and now he believes that Lebron Leaked it. 

That's the kind of passive aggressive Stuff that I would expect from Lebron.  Leak his intentions and then act like you have been "blindsided". 

Quote

"According to my sources, they believe LeBron James had everything to do with news getting out that Kyrie Irving wants to be traded," Smith said. "Because Kyrie Irving and his representation and others met with the Cavaliers a couple weeks ago, and not a word got out until recently.

 

[AHF]

29 minutes ago, sturt said:

THANK YOU.

Didn't even look at who the original poster is, but would you PLEASE re-title the thread to be ACCURATE?

"Rumor" suggests someone is actually suggesting it's been discussed.

Done.