Crunch time benching of Dennis Schröder

[StephenHawking]

I'd like to know what you guys think of Bud benching Dennis late in the game last night. 

Do you think it was due to his subpar play or because of tanking reasons?

Personal take:

I actually really appreciate Coach Buds philosophy. I loved yesterdays benching of Dennis. Let's be real Dennis plays horrible (understatement) on D. Hes not getting anyone involved in the last couple of games and looks very egoistic. I think Bud wanted to get Dennis of his high horse with the benching. Dennis could be a way better defender if he wanted to. As long as he doesn't put effort into defending he should be benched. If there's one thing where this team can beat any team on any given night no matter what talent they have, its effort.

[KB21]

8 minutes ago, StephenHawking said:

I'd like to know what you guys think of Bud benching Dennis late in the game last night. 

Do you think it was due to his subpar play or because of tanking reasons?

Personal take:

I actually really appreciate Coach Buds philosophy. I loved yesterdays benching of Dennis. Let's be real Dennis plays horrible (understatement) on D. Hes not getting anyone involved in the last couple of games and looks very egoistic. I think Bud wanted to get Dennis of his high horse with the benching. Dennis could be a way better defender if he wanted to. As long as he doesn't put effort into defending he should be benched. If there's one thing where this team can beat any team on any given night no matter what talent they have, its effort.

Agree.  This team is going to lose with or without Dennis.  What they can't do is allow a culture where sub-optimal effort, particularly on defense, is ignored.  Graham Chappell has a great article over at Peachtree Hoops about this.  It's not just about his defense, but also how he makes poor decisions on offense as well.

[Diesel]

55 minutes ago, StephenHawking said:

I'd like to know what you guys think of Bud benching Dennis late in the game last night. 

Do you think it was due to his subpar play or because of tanking reasons?

Personal take:

I actually really appreciate Coach Buds philosophy. I loved yesterdays benching of Dennis. Let's be real Dennis plays horrible (understatement) on D. Hes not getting anyone involved in the last couple of games and looks very egoistic. I think Bud wanted to get Dennis of his high horse with the benching. Dennis could be a way better defender if he wanted to. As long as he doesn't put effort into defending he should be benched. If there's one thing where this team can beat any team on any given night no matter what talent they have, its effort.

Wow... so you mean to say... you're just now seeing this... But But What about the points???  Wait... isn't he still YOUNG??  Isn't it still EVERYBODY ELSE'S FAULT That he plays that way?

[NBASupes]

46 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Agree.  This team is going to lose with or without Dennis.  What they can't do is allow a culture where sub-optimal effort, particularly on defense, is ignored.  Graham Chappell has a great article over at Peachtree Hoops about this.  It's not just about his defense, but also how he makes poor decisions on offense as well.

Agreed

[Watchman]

I hope we can unload him while he still has some perceived "value" around the league.

[StephenHawking]

vor einer Stunde, Diesel sagte:

Wow... so you mean to say... you're just now seeing this... But But What about the points???  Wait... isn't he still YOUNG??  Isn't it still EVERYBODY ELSE'S FAULT That he plays that way?

What are you trying to tell me Diesel?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

9 - 14 FG ... 21 pts ... +5 for the game ... In just 22 minutes of play.

Empty stats I guess.

[AHF]

6 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

9 - 14 FG ... 21 pts ... +5 for the game ... In just 22 minutes of play.

Empty stats I guess.

There is no way he doesn't have value with his play.  Nobody should pretend that.  He is not just empty stats and is our best player this year.  He just has so much more upside if he starts to focus on his D.  He needs to get that message.  Not sure if Bud was trying to get his attention with the benching or not but Bud needs to get that message through to him somehow.

[DJlaysitup]

Well I have never been a fan of Dennis - particularly - but I find it hard to be overly critical of him at this point when the team is in tank mode.   Should he be a "true professional" and give 100% on defense all the time and distribute the ball to shooters who will likely just throw up bricks anyway?  I suppose....but it's hard for me to be too critical of a guy who looks around and sees an organization that is trying to lose and is giving him sh!t for not trying hard enough.

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

There is no way he doesn't have value with his play.  Nobody should pretend that.  He is not just empty stats and is our best player this year.  He just has so much more upside if he starts to focus on his D.  He needs to get that message.  Not sure if Bud was trying to get his attention with the benching or not but Bud needs to get that message through to him somehow.

I think it has as much about getting the message to the rest of the team as well, because we have seen some defensive effort issues pop up in Taurean Prince as well.  You can't very well discipline Taurean and allow Dennis to do what he wants to do.  

[Sothron]

Dennis is playing great. He was benched to make sure we didn't slip up and win a game like we did against Orlando. Yes, Dennis could give more effort on D but let's don't pretend why he was really benched.

[KB21]

4 minutes ago, DJlaysitup said:

Well I have never been a fan of Dennis - particularly - but I find it hard to be overly critical of him at this point when the team is in tank mode.   Should he be a "true professional" and give 100% on defense all the time and distribute the ball to shooters who will likely just throw up bricks anyway?  I suppose....but it's hard for me to be too critical of a guy who looks around and sees an organization that is trying to lose and is giving him sh!t for not trying hard enough.

Just because the team has decided to utilize a poor team building strategy by intentionally build a crappy roster, it doesn't mean that the coach should also allow bad habits to set the precedent on the court and in the locker room.

[DJlaysitup]

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Just because the team has decided to utilize a poor team building strategy by intentionally build a crappy roster, it doesn't mean that the coach should also allow bad habits to set the precedent on the court and in the locker room.

Yeah but if I was Dennis I could not help but think "you traded or gave away all the other good players...why keep me?" 

He's basically wasting part of the prime of his career playing on a team that gets on national TV once every eclipse or so.  Should a true professional keep a "stiff upper lip" and tough it out under bad circumstances?  Sure.  But we are dealing with regular human beings here. 

[Watchman]

40 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

9 - 14 FG ... 21 pts ... +5 for the game ... In just 22 minutes of play.

Empty stats I guess.

and 6-19 FG and 10-26 FG the two previous games.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I had a feeling at the beginning of the season that this was coming.  Joe Johnson was the recioient.  Then Marvin.  Then Smoove. Then Teague.  Then Horford. And Dwight was an easy target.  

And now, Dennis is the target.  Even with 90% of the fan base wanting the Hawks to lose 60 - 65 games, he's the target.

It took us literally 13 years to find a PG close to the level of Mookie Blaylock, once Jeff Teague matured enough to be a top 15 PG.  Run Dennis off, and it may be another 10 - 15 years before we find a good PG.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

45 minutes ago, DJlaysitup said:

Well I have never been a fan of Dennis - particularly - but I find it hard to be overly critical of him at this point when the team is in tank mode.   Should he be a "true professional" and give 100% on defense all the time and distribute the ball to shooters who will likely just throw up bricks anyway?  I suppose....but it's hard for me to be too critical of a guy who looks around and sees an organization that is trying to lose and is giving him sh!t for not trying hard enough.

100% agree.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

41 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Just because the team has decided to utilize a poor team building strategy by intentionally build a crappy roster, it doesn't mean that the coach should also allow bad habits to set the precedent on the court and in the locker room.

The coach himself has bad habits, with some of those lineups he throws out on the floor at times.  The team is a reflection of the coach.

[benhillboy]

I’m a proud defensively-driven fan, Dennis is a shit defender, so I loved the benching.  Dennis usually responds very well to being pined as well.

Taylor already has the same defensive rating as Dennis at a fraction of the pay and experience.  That’s just unacceptable. With his effort and playing time it will be much better next season.

Coaches (good ones anyway)  value stops over points that you give right back due to unforced errors and poor effort on defense.  All of the little things we see add up to his paltry team stopping stats.  

An elite defensive PG should give you 5 boards, 2 steals, and half a block a game (7.5 stops).  This shows he’s aware of boxing out and preventing offensive boards, attacking the dribble and pass consistently, and closing out and defending as many shots as possible.  Dennis is at 4, Taylor projects considerably better at 2.2. I’m half the minutes.  Every stop is crucial and stops late in games is the foundation of what a Spurs-molded team should do.

Boy those Rondo comparisons could’nt have been more off.  In his prime Rondo was an All-Defender leading the league in assists.  The complete opposite of Dennis.

[ISOJOE]

Is it possible to hide the posts of a certain user?

Nearly every time I want to read some hawks stuff on Hawksquawk I see those @Diesel posts and leave the website immediately. As nobody feels responsible for the bs he is constantly throwing at us (hello mods) I would appreciate an other solution (ignoring option for example). thanks.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

18 minutes ago, Watchman said:

and 6-19 FG and 10-26 FG the two previous games.

* 11 - 19 FG . . 11 - 24 FG . . and 9 - 17 FG in the 3 games before that.

 

* Shot 50% FG or more in 12 games ( out of 24 )

* Shot 40% FG or less in in 7 games

* 3 - 2 in games in which Dennis has scored 26 or more points . . ( which means that we're a whopping 3 - 16 when Dennis scores 25 or less points ) . . 2 games he was inactive.

* 14 games with 7 or more assists

* And when he posts a positive +/- number, we're 5 - 3.  One of those losses came last night, when Bud shut him down, despite being +5 for the game.