Homecourt Draft Discussion

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

KB21 had Doncic as his top guy thoughout.

He had

1.Doncic

2.JJJ  

3.Young

Actually I talked him into Young around page 90.

6 hours ago, bleachkit said:

Basically nobody here wanted Trae Young. Although I was the first one to start a Trae Young thread on the Squawk when he was blowing up at Oklahoma.

I came out in full support of Young from the get go.

[thecampster]

On 6/21/2018 at 7:54 PM, deester11 said:

I can't stand KB even more cause he was right.  Un freaking believable 

OMG this was the best.

[thecampster]

On 6/21/2018 at 7:56 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

That pick from Dallas wont be worth a hill of beans. They won't be tanking in Dirksadt season. They'll be free agent players for Cousins and Marcus Smart.

Had a hard time finding a bad hot take from you...but I found one.

[thecampster]

On 6/21/2018 at 8:00 PM, Dejay said:

Lol, we all know that they're going 52-30 next season and making the playoffs and given the Hawks the 24th pick...

Dejay's turn in the barrell.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

@NBASupes

March tho. That wasn't when the fights and battles were on. It was in May and June. 

[thecampster]

On 6/21/2018 at 8:04 PM, Flight said:

If Trae lights it up in the league I really don’t want to hear anything from any of y’all. 

Flight with the quote of the night....though this was a close second

On 6/21/2018 at 8:04 PM, Dejay said:

Eww...wait an effin second. The pick is protected?!

Holy effin God in Heaven. Someone make Travis take a drug test...

 

[Thomas]

4 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

I was a Doncic #1 guy and I think I had Trae 4th or 5th. Again though, I’m happy about the way things turned out. You can disagree with me if you want, but Trae is the better player and it will show itself in 5 years or so. Doncic is absolute quality but I freakin love Trae now. Trae earned my respect from day 1.

The Trae and Cam backcourt will be stellar with whatever time Cam takes, not thinking so long myself. Trae has himself already blown us all away with his rapid rise.

[EazyRoc]

4 hours ago, thecampster said:

Actually I talked him into Young around page 90.

I came out in full support of Young from the get go.

Right..me too and I was very bullish on Trae. Predicted he had MVP potential and all.

[NBASupes]

KB21 was talking mad shit in favor of JJJ. Saying his floor was Ibaka. Saying that he wasn't 3/D which is exactly what he is today. Saying his ceiling is KG or med outcome is LMA with range LMFAO! 

He's still Marvin Williams Jr to me. Just a better shooter with more volume. Marvin would have been that had to came in this generation as well. 

[marco102]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

KB21 was talking mad shit in favor of JJJ. Saying his floor was Ibaka. Saying that he wasn't 3/D which is exactly what he is today. Saying his ceiling is KG or med outcome is LMA with range LMFAO! 

He's still Marvin Williams Jr to me. Just a better shooter with more volume. Marvin would have been that had to came in this generation as well. 

Bro.  JJJ is going to be good.  He's better than what you predicted.  I'd definetely love to have him on the Hawks.  He's super Young and has a lot of room to improve.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

Bro.  JJJ is going to be good.  He's better than what you predicted.  I'd definetely love to have him on the Hawks.  He's super Young and has a lot of room to improve.

I liked Marvin Williams and thought he was better than what many assume for now. He just came in the wrong era. He would have been clearly seen as a 4 today. In those days, they wanted to make him a 3. 

[NBASupes]

On 6/6/2018 at 3:37 PM, NBASupes said:

Bagley is better at what he's good at than Jaren is at what he is good at. Same for Doncic in comparison to Trae Young. 

Bagley is at a top 10 level right now at PF at what he is good at. For PGs, for what Doncic is good at, he can impact the game right now. JJJ and Trae are WIP. Now Bamba is freakish at paint protecting and blocking shots right now but hes a WIP at most categories. That said, outside of JJJ, all of these kids are excellent talents.

I still believe this 110%. 

[NBASupes]

On 6/6/2018 at 1:27 PM, NBASupes said:

Bull f***ing shit. Ibaka is his wishful thinking ceiling. His floor is rookie Marvin Williams. His ceiling is Larry Sanders with range. That's a good player and a hard to find player. He doesnt have the coordination or core strength to be Ibaka.

Honestly, this is 110% again. I was deadass on when it came to JJJ. The only thing I underrated was his shooting ability. I didn't think it was this damn good. 

 

  

On 6/6/2018 at 11:40 AM, NBASupes said:

Hes not that athletic. Hes just an excellent run/jump guy. Marvin Williams was the same.

 

I can't believe KB said JJJ is the most athletic big in this class. He was saying a lot of bullshit

Edited February 3, 2020 by NBASupes

[KB21]

You can keep being wrong on this if you want to.  JJJ isn’t just a 3 and D guy.  He’s also great with handling the ball for a man his size, and he does a great job of creating off the dribble for himself.  

[Spud2nique]

JJJ seems like he lacks motor and consistency. He can be good but not sure if he will be throughout his career.

[NBASupes]

  

On 6/6/2018 at 5:54 PM, NBASupes said:

For Young, ability to run a system, size, and athleticism but even then, I think he can develop for us. We got a personnel that fits his game. He might be the best fit with Bamba for us. 

These are still Trae's weaknesses. Running a system and decision making skills. But all of his strengths have came is massive ways. Like I said, Trae is either a superstar or bust. Even his bad games feel like the worst on the team but his best games feel like the greatest offensive player ever. 

 

On 6/6/2018 at 7:21 PM, NBASupes said:

Noel having a legit offensive game is as likely as JJJ having an offensive game in the NBA outside of 3 point shot potentially. 

Sheesh, I was on f***ing fire in this thread. Shit! 

@EazyRoc might have been right on Trae. As long as you can run PnRs, shoot and pass at an elite level, you gonna be a very good PG in this league. You are right but, this still stands. 

On 6/6/2018 at 7:31 PM, NBASupes said:

I disagree, running a system is critical to PG's game. If you can't run a system, you better be able to play SG at times like Westbrook and Curry. That's something Young has to work on. There are a number of things Young has to completely work on. For all the comparisons, Nash was able to run a system. Even when all else failed for him as a rookie, he could run an offense. Young seems to play Trae ball like Dennis plays Dennis ball. He's gonna take some time. College PG's are completely different than NBA PG's. The worse starting PG's are as good as Young. It's not like we are talking about the center or PF position. The PG position is loaded. Dennis Smith was one of the worst PG's in the NBA last year. Outside of defense, Fox tremendously struggled. Ball had his struggles and of course Fultz had the injury issue. 

That's the hardest position in the NBA outside of NBA center. It's gonna take him time to adjust. Every night, you have a lot of competition at the position and even the bust like Elfrid Payton can hoop. It's a hard position and I don't think he will translate instantly. No one seems to unless they are extremely athletic or they have abnormal size. Neither of which Trae has. I have my quarrels but I see the potential. I clearly see the potential and that's what makes him interesting. 

 

On 6/6/2018 at 8:06 PM, Spud2nique said:

I’m happy with any of these guys:

Ayton

Bagley

Doncic

Bamba

Young

Porter

 

Not happy with :

JJJ

Wendell

Knox

Spud, I see you. 

 

On 6/6/2018 at 7:49 PM, thecampster said:

Do any of you ever go back and your posts from the draft discussions last year?  Humility is a frosty dish.

At least you didn't lie, you knew this is what you was going to do. Sadly you cherry f***ing picked post. 

[NBASupes]

10 minutes ago, KB21 said:

You can keep being wrong on this if you want to.  JJJ isn’t just a 3 and D guy.  He’s also great with handling the ball for a man his size, and he does a great job of creating off the dribble for himself.  

You were WRONG on JJJ. He's not that good bro and never was going to be that good. I actually liked him to a degree but I always saw pass that BS of him being a good offensive option. He's a volume 3pt shooter. That's all he is who dunks. He's really Larry Sanders with volume 3pt shooting. That's exactly what he is but a worse rebounder. per36 fouls are 5.2 a game. His defensive discipline is poor even if his defensive talent is sky high. He wasn't ever that good. I said it best. He's just a 3/D center. That's it. 

 

His self creativity isn't used that much unless the match-up is favorable like he did at Mich St. He's basically the same player. His progression isn't even that good. 

Edited February 3, 2020 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

@KB21, my dislike for JJJ had everything to do with Marvin. He never was that talented but his floor is VERY HIGH and even now, he's not that effective playing the 5. Bamba's more effective at the 5. You love being wrong. As I said about Bamba, he has a lot to work on but in time, he will get there and be much better than JJJ. 

Edited February 3, 2020 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

On 6/6/2018 at 8:57 PM, NBASupes said:

No, you don't smell shit. You want to believe in a guy who is clearly what I been telling you he is. Don't for one minute think these HS posters are agreeing with me to agree. These are the same posters who know I think higher of Horford than any of them. They all know that too. At some point you gonna have to realize, maybe I was wrong. Maybe he is just a taller, less athletic Marvin Williams. Even his blocks look like Marvin's

 

 

 

Don't tell me he's a great shot blocker in general because in EYBL, he wasn't even a good shot blocker for his size and height. I keep telling you, his blocks are all Josh Smith like blocks. He's not Mo Bamba or nothing. He's just like Larry Sanders, taking a lot of attempts as they lack the size to bang back in the post and they stay getting weakside blocks. 

@KB21

[NBASupes]

  

On 6/6/2018 at 9:36 PM, NBASupes said:

I disagree. I think he can translate. He's more athletic than you are giving him credit for. He's not fast at all but he's like Larry Bird in that he is really good at changing pace and he feels the game so way in retrospect. I think he will translate Day 1. All of the issues I had on him, I am starting to take back. I am fine with taking him #3 if available. 

LukaMagic

On 6/8/2018 at 9:55 AM, NBASupes said:

I continuously say and this was the case for Marvin. No one is talking about his body control, weak core strength and his lack of coordination. They cant just chalk this up to age. This is problematic. The most problematic for me as the NBA game can be a plus is its played in space but for someone uncoordinated, space can be bad as well as we saw with Marvin.

@KB21

On 6/8/2018 at 11:12 AM, NBASupes said:

Some of the games best shot blockers had terrible coordination, body control and a weak core. Shawn Bradley, Bol, Ratliff, Larry Sanders had a weak core, you had guys who can block shots with issues like this. Marvin had these issues and was a good shot blocker for his position.

True...

On 6/8/2018 at 6:20 PM, GameTime said:

One of the best scouting videos of JJJ i've seen on youtube. it is one the few that highlights his below average defensive rebounding, underwhelming one-on-one post defense, lack of toughness, poor offensive BBIQ, and weird shot pretty much eliminating any chance of a 'shooting off-the-dribble' game.

All this said he would be a beast beside a LeBron James or Harden/Paul. Basically if a team already has a superstar or two they should pick him up. He can space the floor in spot up situations, protect the rim at a high rate, and switch on defense better than anyone in this draft.

Ekpe Udoh: Floor

Serge Ibaka in OKC: Ceiling

Once again, why I am and was high on Bagley:

On 6/9/2018 at 12:38 AM, NBASupes said:

It's mock drafts. All accounts are Porter Jr is going in the top 5. In every mock, he's outside of the top 5. JJJ is the one player I think will be available outside of the top 10 when it's all said and done. That's to no disrespect to him but if SAC is down to Doncic, Porter Jr and Bagley. Hawks are looking at a number of guys and not showing our hand. Grizzles looking at Doncic or Porter Jr. Mavs looking at Bamba heavily. Orlando - Young. Chicago wants Porter Jr but are looking at Carter Jr heavy. Cavs and Knicks are looking at guards and wings. JJJ could literally be there at #11 and maybe MJ even skips him. So JJJ could fall all the way to 12-13. Like I said, this can really happen. But that's neither here are there. I don't want to dog out the kid. 

On to Bagley: Something I read on RealGM: 

I dont think its too uncommon for the top guys to get nitpicked at this time of the year. This is the time we usually see the top guys get nitpicked while the 2nd tier guys start getting a lot more love. With that said I do think Ayton and Bagley are seeing a really high level of nitpicking. 

Im looking at them with the view point of we had a 19 year old that is 7'1 with a 7'4 wingspan that is a tremendous athlete that just blocked 2.5 shots per game in conference play in Ayton.

We also have an 18 year old that is 6'11 that is the definition of a freak athlete, the dude runs and moves around like he is a guard. Then when diving into his defensive stats:
0.79 ppp for his overall defense (74th percentile)
0.85 ppp for his spot up defense (69th percentile)
0.56 ppp for his isolation defense (83rd percentile)
0.46 ppp for his post-up defense (96th percentile)

Now I am not stating that he is a stud defender, but with his motor and work ethic + athleticism, I think he has a good base to improve on defensively. Ya hes going to have to get smarter, but that will come with experience. So its not like he doesn't have the physical tools or has major motor problems. I think a lot of it is just a lack of being asked and being coached defense throughout his career so far. Again not stating hes going to be a DPOY player, but I think he has the makings to be a positive defensive player, mix that with his rebounding and scoring, that is a scary combination.

Where KB21 and I agreed. 

On 6/9/2018 at 7:58 AM, KB21 said:

I've said it before, Trae Young and Luka Doncic are the two players to look at if you want to maximize what you have with John Collins and Taurean Prince.  If Trae Young hits his ceiling, you have a Steve Nash type of point guard who can dictate the pace of play on offense and also be a lethal perimeter shooter/scorer.  If he bombs out, you will be getting a new GM and coach, which is going to happen anyway with the slop we have at those two spots currently.

If Kev wasn't so garbage on defense, I think he would be a great starter long term just based on offense alone. 

On 6/9/2018 at 8:10 AM, KB21 said:

 

 

On 6/9/2018 at 5:56 PM, EazyRoc said:

Bamba really is an athletic freak of nature, but like Giannis he’s a bare minimum 3 years away from developing the skills to make it all make sense. I mean he could come in and be a solid rebounder and get garbage buckets. However, for him to develop into something special will take a while.

 

P.S. FWIW, I never realized dude was THIS athletic. I always compared him to Rudy Gobert because of the length and lack of offensive skills. His ceiling is MUCH higher. His floor is what scares me though. He has a lot of room to grow, but that could be a good thing or a bad thing. 

I keep saying it, I am still a believer in Bamba. His talent level is crazy, he just has to figure out his body but once he does, OMG! 

@Spud2nique go to Page 118 and 119 my friend. 

On 6/11/2018 at 1:45 PM, NBASupes said:

We aren't moving far back. My guess is Dallas offers us a 2019 1st and we will gladly move down to 5.