Homecourt Draft Discussion

[kg01]

Slink NBARadio synopsis care of kg ....

- Goals heading into draft:

Wanted to acquire assets in addition.  Felt good about gaining a protected 1st and future 2nds.

- Were you ok with keeping Doncic if trade fell through?

Oh yeah, wanted to add play-makers, focused on either Luka or Trae.  Several teams wanted to trade up.  Win/win for us keeping Luka or obtaining Trae.

- How hard to decide who to move on from when you inherit a team?

First thing is to take a 'deep dive' into the team, what they have.  Won 60, then 48, then 42 so a steady decline was happening.  Roster was 4th or 5th oldest, most 60-win guys had left.  Was right time to his reset button.  Had a few future 1sts already.  Decided to let Millsap/THJ walk to open up money.

Looking at rest of league, there were several teams we could take advantage of since they were in cap heyul.  Will use space this summer to acquire assets this summer just like last year.  Will look to take contracts from tax teams for assets.

- On Steph/Trae comps, Trae said it was nice but unfair, how do you feel?

Natural comp when you see his shooting off the bounce.  The difference is, Steph played 2 in college and off-ball movement is still there.  Trae is more of a 1, has always been.  Is ahead of Steph in that area at this time.  Trae has to learn the off-ball game when he gives it up to make himself more difficult to guard.

- On hiring a player devel-focused coach?

Wanted to make sure we had a coach with that background and the ability to connect with players.  Ability to develop off the court is key as well.  CLP's ability to connect was impressive, natural fit.

- Were around Riley, Nelson, etc. how much do you learn from them/apply?

Being around successful coaches/execs all had different styles.  Take away effort/time they put into jobs.  Be who you are.  Players know when you're being fake.

- When rebuilding, besides getting right players, what the toughest part?  Is it having the owner believe in process, fans?

Making sure you don't shortcut.  Decision (to tank) is made.  Mistake is getting impatient.  Keeping owners/fans engaged is most important.  Getting guys out in community helps but fans just want to be told the truth.  Going to keep bringing in good pros to teach guys during process.

- Summer league expectations on Trae?

If he doesn't get 30's he's a failure.  Har Har Har.  Just want to see young guys start to build chemistry.

- Has goalpost been moved for rooks, considering what Tatum, Simmons, etc do?

It'll be tough for guys to live up to that but guys are bigger/stronger now .. all grown men and 19/20 so it'll be interesting to see.

You're welcom, b*tches.

[kg01]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

  I can't do all the work from the kitchen.

Well, if you say so.

[AHF]

8 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Slink NBARadio synopsis care of kg ....

- Goals heading into draft:

Wanted to acquire assets in addition.  Felt good about gaining a protected 1st and future 2nds.

- Were you ok with keeping Doncic if trade fell through?

Oh yeah, wanted to add play-makers, focused on either Luka or Trae.  Several teams wanted to trade up.  Win/win for us keeping Luka or obtaining Trae.

- How hard to decide who to move on from when you inherit a team?

First thing is to take a 'deep dive' into the team, what they have.  Won 60, then 48, then 42 so a steady decline was happening.  Roster was 4th or 5th oldest, most 60-win guys had left.  Was right time to his reset button.  Had a few future 1sts already.  Decided to let Millsap/THJ walk to open up money.

Looking at rest of league, there were several teams we could take advantage of since they were in cap heyul.  Will use space this summer to acquire assets this summer just like last year.  Will look to take contracts from tax teams for assets.

- On Steph/Trae comps, Trae said it was nice but unfair, how do you feel?

Natural comp when you see his shooting off the bounce.  The difference is, Steph played 2 in college and off-ball movement is still there.  Trae is more of a 1, has always been.  Is ahead of Steph in that area at this time.  Trae has to learn the off-ball game when he gives it up to make himself more difficult to guard.

- On hiring a player devel-focused coach?

Wanted to make sure we had a coach with that background and the ability to connect with players.  Ability to develop off the court is key as well.  CLP's ability to connect was impressive, natural fit.

- Were around Riley, Nelson, etc. how much do you learn from them/apply?

Being around successful coaches/execs all had different styles.  Take away effort/time they put into jobs.  Be who you are.  Players know when you're being fake.

- When rebuilding, besides getting right players, what the toughest part?  Is it having the owner believe in process, fans?

Making sure you don't shortcut.  Decision (to tank) is made.  Mistake is getting impatient.  Keeping owners/fans engaged is most important.  Getting guys out in community helps but fans just want to be told the truth.  Going to keep bringing in good pros to teach guys during process.

- Summer league expectations on Trae?

If he doesn't get 30's he's a failure.  Har Har Har.  Just want to see young guys start to build chemistry.

- Has goalpost been moved for rooks, considering what Tatum, Simmons, etc do?

It'll be tough for guys to live up to that but guys are bigger/stronger now .. all grown men and 19/20 so it'll be interesting to see.

You're welcom, b*tches.

That is a super strong signal to me that we won't be competing for the playoffs this year.  Thanks for the recap, @kg01!

[kg01]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

That is a super strong signal to me that we won't be competing for the playoffs this year.  Thanks for the recap, @kg01!

Was anyone in doubt of that?  Is that what them other posters were yelling at you for?

Also on that point, he said STTE "How many times do you see a tanking team get impatient and go out and sign a guy to an $80mil contract?  That kind of deal hampers the organization for years."

This interview reiterated what I already thought, this process isn't close to completion yet.

[KB21]

Got to build up that losing culture in Atlanta.  

[AHF]

6 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Was anyone in doubt of that?  Is that what them other posters were yelling at you for?

Also on that point, he said STTE "How many times do you see a tanking team get impatient and go out and sign a guy to an $80mil contract?  That kind of deal hampers the organization for years."

This interview reiterated what I already thought, this process isn't close to completion yet.

There are definitely people who think we will be competing this year.  I've not been among them but I'm not banging the drum on that agenda because that has always been my speculation based on what I thought was logical.  It is just that we've now seen our GM say we won't be going after people in FA and now that the biggest mistake would be getting "impatient" which I read as "impatient with the losing we need to get high picks."  So I view this as noteworthy since it is more evidence from Schlenk (as opposed to me just spitting opinions).

[KB21]

In honor of Travis Schlenk, I'm not going to put much effort into treating patients today, which I would consider to be equivalent to Travis not putting much effort into fielding a competitive team.

[deester11]

8 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Got to build up that losing culture in Atlanta.  

Always dependable KB. I hate the thought of losing but I believe in the pieces and it DOES look like there is a strategy.  IF these assets turn into solid, high level talent, I'm all in.  Totally agree about the aging, declining team.

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

In honor of Travis Schlenk, I'm not going to put much effort into treating patients today, which I would consider to be equivalent to Travis not putting much effort into fielding a competitive team.

For the medical field, I'd make the analogy that when you have a broken leg you have to get off it for a while and let it strengthen back up before returning to competitive sports.  But this is veering into tank discussion territory so let's take it up on the tank thread if we want to continue.

[kg01]

9 minutes ago, KB21 said:

In honor of Travis Schlenk, I'm not going to put much effort into treating patients today, which I would consider to be equivalent to Travis not putting much effort into fielding a competitive team.

I heard a rumor that a certain baseball player's mom has been telling folks this is the norm for Dr. KBToys.   Heigh-ohhh

C'mon, you laughed.

[KB21]

16 minutes ago, AHF said:

For the medical field, I'd make the analogy that when you have a broken leg you have to get off it for a while and let it strengthen back up before returning to competitive sports.  But this is veering into tank discussion territory so let's take it up on the tank thread if we want to continue.

I think it would be more similar to if the ENT that did my hemithyroidectomy had left part of the left lobe in me.

[JayBirdHawk]

5 hours ago, kg01 said:

Was anyone in doubt of that?  Is that what them other posters were yelling at you for?

Also on that point, he said STTE "How many times do you see a tanking team get impatient and go out and sign a guy to an $80mil contract?  That kind of deal hampers the organization for years."

This interview reiterated what I already thought, this process isn't close to completion yet.

This, This, This.

5 hours ago, AHF said:

There are definitely people who think we will be competing this year.  I've not been among them but I'm not banging the drum on that agenda because that has always been my speculation based on what I thought was logical.  It is just that we've now seen our GM say we won't be going after people in FA and now that the biggest mistake would be getting "impatient" which I read as "impatient with the losing we need to get high picks."  So I view this as noteworthy since it is more evidence from Schlenk (as opposed to me just spitting opinions).

I think we'll have a similar season this upcoming season, like last.

[thecampster]

On 5/23/2018 at 11:45 AM, gurpilo said:

This draft has a clear top 3, players with more chances to become a star, Ayton, Bagley and Doncic, mocks have been stable all year, neve happen. After those 3 there are other 3 with potential but more flaws, Bamba, Jackson and Porter. Young is below these 6.

We were extremely lucky to land on top 3, we should select whoever is left between Doncic and Bagley.

Doncic is a great fit, he can play SG and we would be a Center away of having a great starting 5, that is why I would take my chances on Mitchell Robinson if we take Doncic, a starting 5 of Dennis, Doncic, Prince, Collins and Mitchell can become a dominant force on the east.

Bagley has superstar lavel written on him, I don’t mind if he is similar to Collins, you just not pass on that talent.

I don’t understand the talk about Young, he has more defensive flaws than Bagley, and Jackson could become Marvin part II

I really hope we end with Bagley or Doncic but to be honest I think we are going to fck the draft as usually and select Jackson or Young, I have a bad feeling....

I searched pretty hard for the perfect post to revive this thread.  I would love everyone to take a second and read as much as they can between page 50 and 150 (yes its a lot). find your own posts offer your "Yah, I have no idea what I was thinking when I said that" posts. If Gurpilo were honest, He'd choose this one (and is a good guy so I thought I'd use his).  Go back, look at what you were saying just 2 years ago.

Edited February 2, 2020 by thecampster

[thecampster]

 

 

Stats since draft.

Notables.  Luka, Ayton, Jacskson, Bagley durability questions

Jackson shooting 39% from 3 but only getting 4.7 rpg

Bamba struggling to get minutes, score..... .471 FG% for a center is pretty bad.

Sexton getting only 2.8 apg

Rk	Pk	Tm	Player	College	Yrs	G	MP	PTS	TRB	AST	FG%	3P%	FT%	MP	PTS	TRB	AST	WS	WS/48	BPM	VORP
1	1	PHO	Deandre Ayton	Arizona	2	89	2772	1479	937	158	.574	.000	.762	31.1	16.6	10.5	1.8	7.5	.131	0.2	1.5
2	2	SAC	Marvin Bagley	Duke	2	75	1901	1108	568	72	.497	.288	.703	25.3	14.8	7.6	1.0	4.0	.101	-2.5	-0.2
3	3	ATL	Luka Dončić		2	115	3729	2764	971	802	.442	.325	.735	32.4	24.0	8.4	7.0	11.9	.153	6.8	8.3
4	4	MEM	Jaren Jackson	Michigan State	2	105	2833	1628	491	129	.492	.391	.757	27.0	15.5	4.7	1.2	6.0	.102	0.5	1.8
5	5	DAL	Trae Young	Oklahoma	2	126	4072	2856	509	1060	.429	.344	.835	32.3	22.7	4.0	8.4	7.6	.090	1.4	3.5
6	6	ORL	Mohamed Bamba	Texas	2	92	1453	536	462	68	.471	.313	.613	15.8	5.8	5.0	0.7	3.4	.112	0.4	0.9
7	7	CHI	Wendell Carter	Duke	2	81	2219	888	673	122	.509	.200	.763	27.4	11.0	8.3	1.5	5.1	.111	-0.3	0.9
8	8	CLE	Collin Sexton	Alabama	2	132	4208	2352	399	371	.443	.384	.846	31.9	17.8	3.0	2.8	0.9	.010	-4.4	-2.5
9	9	NYK	Kevin Knox	Kentucky	2	124	3071	1306	483	132	.369	.337	.699	24.8	10.5	3.9	1.1	-0.9	-.015	-5.3	-2.6
10	10	PHI	Mikal Bridges	Villanova	2	130	3593	1042	450	245	.454	.330	.808	27.6	8.0	3.5	1.9	5.6	.075	0.3	2.1
11	11	CHO	Shai Gilgeous-Alexander	Kentucky	2	132	3950	1858	540	430	.467	.349	.811	29.9	14.1	4.1	3.3	7.4	.090	-0.1	1.9
12	12	LAC	Miles Bridges	Michigan State	2	129	3176	1207	586	182	.453	.338	.780	24.6	9.4	4.5	1.4	4.1	.062	-1.4	0.5
13	13	LAC	Jerome Robinson	Boston College	2	74	794	234	101	64	.366	.298	.607	10.7	3.2	1.4	0.9	0.0	.003	-4.4	-0.5
14	14	DEN	Michael Porter	Missouri	1	39	556	311	171	29	.508	.432	.795	14.3	8.0	4.4	0.7	1.9	.168	0.6	0.4
15	15	WAS	Troy Brown	Oregon	2	97	1910	724	408	177	.445	.333	.732	19.7	7.5	4.2	1.8	2.3	.057	-2.3	-0.1
16	16	PHO	Zhaire Smith	Texas Tech	2	10	136	44	15	12	.366	.316	.667	13.6	4.4	1.5	1.2	0.0	.017	-5.0	-0.1
17	17	MIL	Donte DiVincenzo	Villanova	2	70	1389	518	266	130	.443	.316	.766	19.8	7.4	3.8	1.9	3.7	.129	1.4	1.2
18	18	SAS	Lonnie Walker	Miami (FL)	2	57	632	276	95	38	.429	.397	.736	11.1	4.8	1.7	0.7	0.5	.038	-4.3	-0.4
19	19	ATL	Kevin Huerter	Maryland	2	114	3181	1181	409	340	.419	.391	.762	27.9	10.4	3.6	3.0	2.6	.039	-1.7	0.2
20	20	MIN	Josh Okogie	Georgia Tech	2	120	2864	942	425	164	.389	.270	.748	23.9	7.9	3.5	1.4	2.4	.041	-1.6	0.3
21	21	UTA	Grayson Allen	Duke	2	68	914	432	89	68	.412	.342	.789	13.4	6.4	1.3	1.0	0.6	.033	-5.0	-0.7
22	22	CHI	Chandler Hutchison	Boise State	2	68	1303	400	269	53	.473	.299	.621	19.2	5.9	4.0	0.8	1.3	.049	-3.8	-0.6
23	23	IND	Aaron Holiday	UCLA	2	95	1698	760	170	246	.415	.388	.846	17.9	8.0	1.8	2.6	2.7	.076	-1.7	0.1
24	24	POR	Anfernee Simons		2	70	1273	521	137	88	.410	.322	.756	18.2	7.4	2.0	1.3	0.2	.008	-4.8	-0.9
25	25	LAL	Moritz Wagner	Michigan	2	64	875	451	212	52	.495	.331	.823	13.7	7.0	3.3	0.8	1.2	.066	-2.4	-0.1
26	26	PHI	Landry Shamet	Wichita State	2	111	2712	1046	204	174	.430	.414	.840	24.4	9.4	1.8	1.6	5.5	.098	-0.6	1.0
27	27	BOS	Robert Williams	Texas A&M	2	51	552	155	168	28	.690		.586	10.8	3.0	3.3	0.5	2.3	.199	5.1	1.0
28	28	GSW	Jacob Evans	Cincinnati	2	55	568	153	60	47	.341	.348	.808	10.3	2.8	1.1	0.9	-0.6	-.053	-7.8	-0.8
29	29	BRK	Džanan Musa		2	42	431	156	71	33	.346	.203	.717	10.3	3.7	1.7	0.8	-0.2	-.026	-6.5	-0.5
30	30	ATL	Omari Spellman	Villanova	2	93	1650	637	409	93	.421	.369	.779	17.7	6.8	4.4	1.0	2.6	.076	-1.2	0.

[KB21]

Yeah.  It’s good to see that the players I liked are doing well for the most part.  

Looking at these guys in terms of WAR:

1.  Luka Doncic/Dallas Mavericks 7.3 WAR

2.  Trae Young/Atlanta Hawks 5.5 WAR

3.  Donte DiVicenzo/Milwaukee Bucks 4.2 WAR

4.  Devontae Graham/Charlotte Hornets 3.6 WAR

5.  Kendrick Nunn/Miami Heat 3.3 WAR

6.  Shai-Gilgeous Alexander/Oklahoma City Thunder 3.3 WAR

7.  Aaron Holiday/Indiana Packers 2.8 WAR

8.  Mikal Bridges/Phoenix Suns 2.4 WAR

9.  Jalen Brunson/Dallas Mavericks 2.1 WAR

There are only 3 players drafted in the top 10 who are on this list of top 9 WAR rankings for 2019-2020 from this class.  The majority of the top WAR players were drafted from the mid first round on.  

[thecampster]

19 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Yeah.  It’s good to see that the players I liked are doing well for the most part.  

Looking at these guys in terms of WAR:

1.  Luka Doncic/Dallas Mavericks 7.3 WAR

2.  Trae Young/Atlanta Hawks 5.5 WAR

3.  Donte DiVicenzo/Milwaukee Bucks 4.2 WAR

4.  Devontae Graham/Charlotte Hornets 3.6 WAR

5.  Kendrick Nunn/Miami Heat 3.3 WAR

6.  Shai-Gilgeous Alexander/Oklahoma City Thunder 3.3 WAR

7.  Aaron Holiday/Indiana Packers 2.8 WAR

8.  Mikal Bridges/Phoenix Suns 2.4 WAR

9.  Jalen Brunson/Dallas Mavericks 2.1 WAR

There are only 3 players drafted in the top 10 who are on this list of top 9 WAR rankings for 2019-2020 from this class.  The majority of the top WAR players were drafted from the mid first round on.  

You and I were pretty much in agreement with our players except I'll take the win saying JJJ was a few years away. He's developing nicely but his rebounding is head scratching.

 

[thecampster]

On 4/5/2018 at 10:22 AM, NBASupes said:

So I hope. Someone who just is looking for the most NBA ready freshman and Ayton is gone. 

I'll take the Bridges and Carter Jr over JJJ. With development either Bridges could become potential All Stars. Carter Jr is intriguing as a center prospect. He will be a Day 1 decent big but his potential might be closer to Emeka Okafor than Dwight Howard as a prospect. 

 

On 4/5/2018 at 10:26 AM, Peoriabird said:

Definitely would take Bridges over him...On the fence with Carter

For example....these posts.  Love you Supes

[thecampster]

On 4/8/2018 at 6:19 PM, NBASupes said:

Bamba is far more impressive even as a freshman and he's raw. He's not even polished like Jaren is. How can you justify any damn team in their right minds taking JJJ over Bamba? How? Who had more responsibility? Bamba. Team's best player? Bamba. Expected to carry his team? Bamba. Smarter shot blocker? Bamba. Foul Trouble? Jackson. 

 

JJJ is a good prospect. An excellent defensive  PF prospect. He has a good deal of potential. That's legit but he's not anywhere close to Bamba. Bamba damn near could be the best player in the NBA in 4 years. No way can JJJ be that. No way. He just doesn't have the ceiling. 

 

If I am Orlando, I am taking Jackson. Why? Because simply put, you need someone who is polished who can defend the four and space, run the floor, set sound screens, and read the defense well and finish in space. Also of course, PROTECT the rim. 

 

If I am Atlanta, why would I take JJJ over Bamba? I wouldn't but why would you KB21.

 

I would take Bamba because his shooting potential is much higher. I don't really have to change anything. Better potential with his back to the basket. Better at using his tools. Better open court player. Harder to defend. Tough to guard, during Jan and Feb, drew as many double teams as Ayton. That's on offense. Much better footwork and functional athlete. Plays to his length like Giannis. Covers a lot of ground with each step. Can dribble in open court. A nightmare to defend due to his size. 

Defense, using his tools far better. While he struggles on post defense as does JJJ v. bigger stronger players, his functional athletic ability allows him to defend his area better than JJJ. JJJ is clearly better defending space and likely will always be better at it. Elite paint protector. Defends the paint without fouling and does a great job of controlling the block. His functional athleticism really is his best trait defensively. It makes him a menace. He's not as fast as Jackson nor is he as strong at this stage. Has broad shoulders. Jackson has decent sized shoulders which is needed for a PF, not big enough for a center. Jackson has a thicker frame while Bamba is more top heavy especially once he physically matures. Neither have big thighs. 

 

While defensively, I think JJJ is a better prospect, he's a PF for me without the size to be a center. That said, could he be a Clint Capela center? Yes. He could but I hate using that as let's be clear, you gotta have a creator of the highest level to play Capela at the 5. Even then, a lot of teams let their 4's defend Clint. I am not as high on Bamba defensively. I have questions about his post defense. Although his length, ability to defend in space, his paint and rim protection is special but you have to be able to defend centers in the paint. They will abuse you if you can't. 

 

Overall, offensively is where there is a massive POTENTIAL gap. JJJ potential is likely around 14-16ppg. If he really improves his skills, I could see 20 ppg. He's a really good offensive player in space. For Bamba, the sky is the limit. No one in college really could hold him 1v1 once he started to figure it out. He still struggles at things JJJ is good at like getting quality position, skill around the basket, etc but he does have a nice touch and he uses his body extremely well in the paint. He really takes adv of his length adv. Scary to think what he will be once he gets the skill to match the ability. He has good footwork and agility in the post. He's a good athlete and is quick with decisions. Needs to work on handling double teams better. Defenses scheme him to shoot more and shoot well. Shoots from all areas on the court. Not timid. With development, he could be 24-26PPG. There really isn't anything stopping him from development. Quick for his size, good feet, good soft touch, smart, moves off the ball well, screening needs work, but he's really really long in general and covers so much cover when moving and moves well. He's not Ajnica, Mutombo, or Thabeet. Usually, tall long players tend to be really unathletic, he's pretty athletic. The sky is the limit for Bamba. 

SMDH....ROFL....remember...the internet is forever.

[thecampster]

On 4/16/2018 at 2:48 PM, capstone21 said:

I see Young going anywhere between 6 and 10 ... I just don't want us to pick him.

 

 

On 4/16/2018 at 3:14 PM, NBASupes said:

I have him in the 11-14 range. I think his ceiling is Dennis Schröder ceiling

 

On 4/16/2018 at 3:22 PM, capstone21 said:

He has a lot of hype and that will push him up ... I think Gilgeous-Alexander and Sexton are better PG prospects.  

 

On 4/16/2018 at 3:52 PM, NBASupes said:

But if Trae had Dennis wingspan, speed, quickness, finishing ability, and isolation ability, he would be the unquestioned #1 pick. No one is saying these two are the same. Both are severe weaknesses to go with impressive strengths.

I have both of them ahead of Young, especially Sexton.

 

[bleachkit]

I had Doncic as the guy I wanted, and he's been excellent. So I feel okay about my predictions.