Who makes Prince and Collins better among these higher draft candidates?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

7 hours ago, KB21 said:

Here's the problem with this approach.  You can say this about any young player you take in this draft.  So, let's say the Hawks draft Marvin Bagley in this draft because of the perception that he is better than Collins, even though that perception is based completely on pre college hype rather than actual evidence.  Next year, Charles Bassey comes out, who is a far more skilled player and better defender than Marvin Bagley.  So, next year, are you taking Bassey because he is a better prospect?

At some point, you have to actually build a team.  People want to convince themselves that Collins is not really a great prospect at this point because he was drafted 19th.  If he had been drafted 5th, most wouldn't even consider replacing him with Bagley.  

I disagree.  You don't build "the team" until you get "the star player".   Even the last time we tanked, we were trying to find that elite talent to build around, so we kept drafting SFs ( Josh, Chill, Marvin  . . . and probably should've taken Brandon Roy as well ).   Building the team leads a franchise into taking Shelden Williams, when they think they're good at the forward spots, but need a center prospect.  We eventually used some of our "draft capital", and acquired the guy to build around . . . Joe Johnson.   And while not a superstar, JJ was good enough to construct the team around.

I was all for starting Collins after he proved right away that he could play.  Problem is that giving Collins too much time would've messed up "the tank".   This season, I want that guy playing 30 minutes a night, so we can see exactly what he can do with extended minutes.   The same goes for Bagley.  If we take him, there's no reason why he shouldn't be getting the minutes he needs to really develop.

If neither of those guys look like they could get to that next level, and you see a kid in college who might be a better talent, you take that kid in the next draft.  At that point, you can trade what you have now to acquire veteran pieces to compliment the up and coming star.

 

[NBASupes]

No matter who we draft, we have to develop them but if their flaws just can't be developed, we might be screwed. 

That's for anyone we take at #3. That could be Bagley, Young, Bamba, Doncic, Okogie, Spellman, Holiday, Bridges, etc. 

[Flight]

I’d say Trae and Doncic are the easy answers for the question of who’s maximizing TP and JC on the court. I feel like Bamba is a close 3rd just because his rim protection can allow for a lot more pressure for perimeter D. 

[thecampster]

Problem is, Doncic will really need to play the 2 in the NBA. NBA PG's are just too fast for him. He's an effective point forward but as a PG, he won't be able to dribble in traffic in the NBA and he won't be able to guard his position.  But if you take him as a 2, he could be a generational talent.

[aali34]

15 hours ago, KB21 said:

So, him shooting against air means he is a shooter?  27% on three point shots and 67% from the free throw line in game situations must mean nothing.

Kawhi Leonard shot 25% from three in college and 72% at the line.

[Sothron]

If we are being honest, I don't see how anyone can argue that Doncic, JJJ and Bamba aren't the best fits next to those two. Doncic would play SG/SF while JJJ/Bamba could play center. JJJ if he can  hit three's in the NBA would allow Collins to go back to his natural low post scorer or pick and roll to the basket big. Bamba would be the defensive guy to make up for Collins defense. So could JJJ for that matter.

[Royjr9]

53 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

I disagree.  You don't build "the team" until you get "the star player".   Even the last time we tanked, we were trying to find that elite talent to build around, so we kept drafting SFs ( Josh, Chill, Marvin  . . . and probably should've taken Brandon Roy as well ).   Building the team leads a franchise into taking Shelden Williams, when they think they're good at the forward spots, but need a center prospect.  We eventually used some of our "draft capital", and acquired the guy to build around . . . Joe Johnson.   And while not a superstar, JJ was good enough to construct the team around.

I was all for starting Collins after he proved right away that he could play.  Problem is that giving Collins too much time would've messed up "the tank".   This season, I want that guy playing 30 minutes a night, so we can see exactly what he can do with extended minutes.   The same goes for Bagley.  If we take him, there's no reason why he shouldn't be getting the minutes he needs to really develop.

If neither of those guys look like they could get to that next level, and you see a kid in college who might be a better talent, you take that kid in the next draft.  At that point, you can trade what you have now to acquire veteran pieces to compliment the up and coming star.

 

This is my thinking with the comment I made earlier. 

[NBASupes]

28 minutes ago, Sothron said:

If we are being honest, I don't see how anyone can argue that Doncic, JJJ and Bamba aren't the best fits next to those two. Doncic would play SG/SF while JJJ/Bamba could play center. JJJ if he can  hit three's in the NBA would allow Collins to go back to his natural low post scorer or pick and roll to the basket big. Bamba would be the defensive guy to make up for Collins defense. So could JJJ for that matter.

My issue with JJJ is on the offensive end. If his offense is limited to long range 3s for the first two years seasons, he wouldn't really help spacing that much as no one would see him as a threat elsewhere else. He would just be a better Pero Antic which kills the offense as the defense is just sitting on everything. 

Bamba at least is an freak athlete for his size and can at least force the defend to defend him in the paint but if he could add that 3pt shot, that would be the ideal fit. 

Doncic and Young are great fits as well. Creators are NOT a dime a dozen in this league. 

Bagley is a decent fit overall as he makes our offense MUCH MUCH better but defensively, him and Collins will have to really work on their defensive principles and fundamentals. One of them will have to develop into an anchor of some type. Likely Collins and both will have to work on become dynamic switch defenders. 

 

 

[TheFuzz]

13 hours ago, EazyRoc said:

Eh. Doncic isn’t the better ball handler or passer. The reason athletic concerns are lower with Young vs Doncic is because college athletes are more athletic. Young plays against potential NBA players and Doncic plays against NBA rejects. Young is the better shooter by far. Doncics mid range and ability around the rim is better.

Agree to disagree, though I definitely don't buy college being more athletic than the ACB

[EazyRoc]

8 minutes ago, TheFuzz said:

Agree to disagree, though I definitely don't buy college being more athletic than the ACB

Huh ? Ok. So who do you feel are the best athletes to come out of any Euro league ? Then compare their combine numbers with those that are coming from college. It’s not even close. But I get it. Believe what you want to believe. 

[TheFuzz]

4 minutes ago, EazyRoc said:

Huh ? Ok. So who do you feel are the best athletes to come out of any Euro league ? Then compare their combine numbers with those that are coming from college. It’s not even close. But I get it. Believe what you want to believe. 

There are plenty of former NBA athletes in the Euro league, while college is loaded with players who will never even make the Euro league. The top college athletes are more athletic typically, sure. But I'm talking the league as a whole. I like Young, he's my 3rd or so fave prospect, but I don't think the random dudes in the big 12 are more athletic than professional in the ACB.

[KB21]

Just now, TheFuzz said:

There are plenty of former NBA athletes in the Euro league, while college is loaded with players who will never even make the Euro league. The top college athletes are more athletic typically, sure. But I'm talking the league as a whole. I like Young, he's my 3rd or so fave prospect, but I don't think the random dudes in the big 12 are more athletic than professional in the ACB.

Bingo.  The level of competition is MUCH higher in the ACB and Euroleague.  That shouldn't even be questioned.

[EazyRoc]

28 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Bingo.  The level of competition is MUCH higher in the ACB and Euroleague.  That shouldn't even be questioned.

Not talking about competition level.

[NBASupes]

I know some will go with the more dynamic player but Doncic is just a much better PG right now than Young. 

[EazyRoc]

30 minutes ago, TheFuzz said:

There are plenty of former NBA athletes in the Euro league, while college is loaded with players who will never even make the Euro league. The top college athletes are more athletic typically, sure. But I'm talking the league as a whole. I like Young, he's my 3rd or so fave prospect, but I don't think the random dudes in the big 12 are more athletic than professional in the ACB.

I actually do believe the better athletes are in NCAA. I mean no way a 16 year old kid can come into NCAA and keep up. The thought is absurd. Yet pro careers start at 16 in ACB right ?

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

I know some will go with the more dynamic player but Doncic is just a much better PG right now than Young. 

Doncic is not a PG. 

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, EazyRoc said:

I actually do believe the better athletes are in NCAA. I mean no way a 16 year old kid can come into NCAA and keep up. The thought is absurd. Yet pro careers start at 16 in ACB right ?

Doncic is not a PG. 

I think he is.

[KB21]

1 minute ago, EazyRoc said:

I actually do believe the better athletes are in NCAA. I mean no way a 16 year old kid can come into NCAA and keep up. The thought is absurd. Yet pro careers start at 16 in ACB right ?

Doncic is not a PG. 

No.  At 16, they are playing on club level teams, not in a major league like the ACB.  Each of these club teams have what is similar to a JV league team.  You don’t see 16 year old players on the main Real Madrid team.  

[NBASupes]

I dont mind #3Doncic #4 Bamba. 

I'll be happy

[EazyRoc]

5 minutes ago, KB21 said:

No.  At 16, they are playing on club level teams, not in a major league like the ACB.  Each of these club teams have what is similar to a JV league team.  You don’t see 16 year old players on the main Real Madrid team.  

Didn’t know that. Thanks for clearing that up.

8 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I think he is.

Do you also think LeBron is because he has high BBIQ and passing ability ?

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, EazyRoc said:

Didn’t know that. Thanks for clearing that up.

Do you also think LeBron is because he has high BBIQ and passing ability ?

No, because LeBron never had any advanced PG skills. 

Doncic does.