Rate the Hawks Draft

[Peoriabird]

Just now, AHF said:

For youngest ever?  Giannis, Dirk, Ginobili, Porzingis, the list goes on.

I'm talking about this year.  There isn't a Giannis playing in Europe every year. Plus Giannis had to develop and still has holes in his game.  Same with Porzingis

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I'm talking about this year.  There isn't a Giannis playing in Europe every year. Plus Giannis had to develop and still has holes in his game.  Same with Porzingis

I can tell you his Euroleague opponents would have won the NCAA tournament.

[Peoriabird]

10 hours ago, AHF said:

I can tell you his Euroleague opponents would have won the NCAA tournament.

Just saying when you average 14/4.6/5 shooting 30.9% from 3 and you are the MVP of the league....That League can't be that strong or have that many MVP candidates

[AHF]

7 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Just saying when you average 14/4.6/5 shooting 30.9% from 3 and you are the MVP of the league....That League can't be that strong of have that many MVP candidates

You must not know much about the Euroleague if you think the stats are similar to HS or college ball.  You are reaching.

[Peoriabird]

Just now, AHF said:

You must not know much about the Euroleague if you think the stats are similar to HS or college ball.  You are reaching.

We shall see if he becomes an all star in the NBA

[sillent]

16 hours ago, ShooterSays said:

A+ draft and bonus points for Schlenk’s creativity. Getting the undersized kid from Davidson will look like the steal of the draft in a few years. Curry will probably go on to win us 3 championships and multiple MVPs. Klay Thompson, who we picked at 19, could also be an all star in a few years. Curry and Thompson will no doubt be the best backcourt in the NBA…watch. I don’t know much about this Draymond Green guy we picked at 30, but I could see his toughness and grit rattling opposing teams. He also has the ability to be defensive player of the year. Maybe Schlenk, the Master Negotiator, will be able to convince Lebron to come and play for us too?

And props to Schlenk for not being aggressive and moving around with 4 picks (and cap space) in the first 33. Volume is WAY better than trying to move around for the best talent. Two 2^nd round picks in the upcoming drafts are also way more valuable than a silly 33^rd pick in this year’s deep deep draft. I for one CAN NOT WAIT to see what he does with his 3 first round picks next year. We will probably draft KD, Westbrook and James Harden all in one night and be a combination of GS and OKC East.

Mock my words but Tyler Dorsey is already (in my opinion) developing into a James Harden type of player. I feel that we missed a Westbrook type player in this years draft when we passed on De'Athony Melton. Bagley/Porter might be more KDish but Prince, Collins and Dedmon make a nice and interesting combination that makes up for what we lack in our copy cat Warriors revamp. Dennis if he stays will definitely be a wild card but Bembry(Iggy), Young(Curry), Heurter(Klay), Spellman(Green), Collins(upgraded Belll), Dedmon (upgraded McGee), Kabba( possible upgrade over Looney), Dorsey (Harden??) is a good/semi hilarious follow in the Warriors footsteps. They picked nobody I wanted, Bamba, Melton, J. Jackson (go Magics) but if you're going to copy any team why not the recent 3 time champs. This isn't an overnight move but time will tell.

 

[sillent]

15 hours ago, KB21 said:

This isn’t true.  

Trae Young has been Schlenk’s guy for quite a while.  

Schlenk has said in the beginning "his job is to find the next Stef, Klay and Draymond". I must say he adamantly kept his word.

[kurupt]

vor 9 Stunden, Peoriabird sagte:

Just saying when you average 14/4.6/5 shooting 30.9% from 3 and you are the MVP of the league....That League can't be that strong of have that many MVP candidates

40 minute games vs. 48 minute games. Doncic played 25 minutes per game (which translates to 30 mpg in the NBA) and averaged 14.5/5.2/4.6. That right there is 21/7.5/6.6 per 36 minutes. Also, Assists in international Basketball are not given out as easily as in the NBA (direct shot after the pass or at most 1 dribble or it is not an assist) and the scoring load is much more balanced, especially in the top teams.

Source: https://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/luka-doncic-1.html

He is also notorious for the number of end-of-quarter heaves (half-court shots etc.) he takes (27 over all his games this year). Adjusted to "normal" hots, he shot 35%, most of them (like Trae Young for example) difficult, 1-1on1- step backs and the likes. I mean, he had a TS% of 62%, despite having a "bad" shooting year.

And many people forget that he just played 91 games since 30th of June 2017. Since he was 17, he played in 172 over 21 straight months. Meanwhile College players fell off a cliff after their first 15 or so games. He hasn't seen a weight-room during that time. He will be much more fresh and athletic after his first full summer "off" (= conditioning) since he was 17 years.

 

@  Buzzard

What a stupid ass argument. So just because I am from Germany I know less about basketball (and apparently less about Euroleague/European National Leagues) than any American basketball fan? Makes sense. I mean, I played against Daniel Theis and Dennis Schröder in Braunschweig and some other domestic talent that went on to play for the National Team, worked for professional Basketball teams, know a former NBA Championship winner who played here on a personal level...but hey, Darryl from Texas sure knows more about Basketball because he lives in the same country the NBA plays in. Makes sense. Thanks for making my point about ignorant people.

You're the kinda guy that writes stuff like "Schröder averaged similar numbers as Doncic, lol competition" - yeah, in the 5th best league on the worst team. That is like a 5th Division of the G-League and comparing their worst team with the Golden State Warriors.

[marco102]

3 minutes ago, kurupt said:

40 minute games vs. 48 minute games. Doncic played 25 minutes per game (which translates to 30 mpg in the NBA) and averaged 14.5/5.2/4.6. That right there is 21/7.5/6.6 per 36 minutes. Also, Assists in international Basketball are not given out as easily as in the NBA (direct shot after the pass or at most 1 dribble or it is not an assist) and the scoring load is much more balanced, especially in the top teams.

Source: https://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/luka-doncic-1.html

He is also notorious for the number of end-of-quarter heaves (half-court shots etc.) he takes (27 over all his games this year). Adjusted to "normal" hots, he shot 35%, most of them (like Trae Young for example) difficult, 1-1on1- step backs and the likes. I mean, he had a TS% of 62%, despite having a "bad" shooting year.

And many people forget that he just played 91 games since 30th of June 2017. Since he was 17, he played in 172 over 21 straight months. Meanwhile College players fell off a cliff after their first 15 or so games. He hasn't seen a weight-room during that time. He will be much more fresh and athletic after his first full summer "off" (= conditioning) since he was 17 years.

 

@  Buzzard

What a stupid ass argument. So just because I am from Germany I know less about basketball (and apparently less about Euroleague/European National Leagues) than any American basketball fan? Makes sense. I mean, I played against Daniel Theis and Dennis Schröder in Braunschweig and some other domestic talent that went on to play for the National Team, worked for professional Basketball teams, know a former NBA Championship winner who played here on a personal level...but hey, Darryl from Texas sure knows more about Basketball because he lives in the same country the NBA plays in. Makes sense. Thanks for making my point about ignorant people.

You're the kinda guy that writes stuff like "Schröder averaged similar numbers as Doncic, lol competition" - yeah, in the 5th best league on the worst team. That is like a 5th Division of the G-League and comparing their worst team with the Golden State Warriors.

Man!  Will you please stop writing this stuff about Doncic?  I'm just getting over the devastation of not selecting him.  Now,  I'm depressed all over again.  :(

[ggp]

20 hours ago, JCDBaptist said:

Would it surprise you if Doncic just isn't athletic enough for NBA and is too stiff for the 1 or 2 position and takes away his advantage at the 3 position, only to run back to Euroleague where he can dominate and field a true fanbase. This is more probable than Trae Young busting.

We don't want Schröder anymore anyway....rhe REASON why we drafted Young. 

Even if he is a defensive liability, I raise you Curry and Harden. And Harden is a defensive matador. You wouldn't take that?

Stop!!

OK, I'll stop with the Young critiques.  To be honest, my assessment of TY has been harsh.  I am misplacing my anger towards the GM and owner.  I think that they missed a rare opportunity to do something great. 

[KB21]

Now, kurupt.  Why bring up the fact that he has a 62% TS percentage and shoots around 35% from three when you take away the last second heaves that are not standard shots when some are wanting to focus on just counting stats?  BTW, I agree with you.  His scoring efficiency to go along with his play making is the reason he was my #1 prospect.

One thing I'm curious about relative to the Hawks interest in him vs Trae Young.  Travis says they had both players in the same tier.  I guess the question I would like to ask Travis is whether he saw the value in having the skills Young possesses in the body of a 6'8" player, or did he simply see Trae Young as his Steph Curry/Steve Nash and couldn't get past that?

I'm not saying that to try to disparage Young as the pick.  I had Young as the #3 guy on my board, but I did not have him in the same tier as Luka.  Luka was in a tier to himself, and Young may have been in the same tier as JJJ for me.  Yes, I had JJJ and Young ahead of Ayton, Bagley, and Bamba.  

If it were me, I would have kept Doncic, but I'm not displeased with Young.  I'm only displeased that I do not feel they got a great return on the deal to trade Doncic.  Personally, I believe that had they not made the trade, they would have taken Trae at 3.  He was their guy, and he has been their guy for quite a while.

[ggp]

20 hours ago, JCDBaptist said:

Do you think people will scheme to defend Young or Doncic? For all the international flair Doncic has, what real competition has he faced in Euroleague?

I ask this because, if it seriously that stiff of competition, Euroleauge would be more of a feeder league than college. How many other Euroleague players made the jump this year? How many others are highly decorated to even be mentioned? Okoge?

It is easier to standout when you're playing against NBA washouts, hasbeens, or team tryout players. Or just inferior athletes. But that would more appropriately be China league but still.

I don't think defenses will scheme specifically for Doncic.  He is not a slasher, rather a guy that makes everyone else better.  

[TheNorthCydeRises]

35 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Now, kurupt.  Why bring up the fact that he has a 62% TS percentage and shoots around 35% from three when you take away the last second heaves that are not standard shots when some are wanting to focus on just counting stats?  BTW, I agree with you.  His scoring efficiency to go along with his play making is the reason he was my #1 prospect.

One thing I'm curious about relative to the Hawks interest in him vs Trae Young.  Travis says they had both players in the same tier.  I guess the question I would like to ask Travis is whether he saw the value in having the skills Young possesses in the body of a 6'8" player, or did he simply see Trae Young as his Steph Curry/Steve Nash and couldn't get past that?

I'm not saying that to try to disparage Young as the pick.  I had Young as the #3 guy on my board, but I did not have him in the same tier as Luka.  Luka was in a tier to himself, and Young may have been in the same tier as JJJ for me.  Yes, I had JJJ and Young ahead of Ayton, Bagley, and Bamba.  

If it were me, I would have kept Doncic, but I'm not displeased with Young.  I'm only displeased that I do not feel they got a great return on the deal to trade Doncic.  Personally, I believe that had they not made the trade, they would have taken Trae at 3.  He was their guy, and he has been their guy for quite a while.

I think the difference is in their ceilings.   If Doncic reaches his ceiling as a high volume scorer/playmaker/and rebounder . . . let's say a 20 pt - 7 rebs - 7 asst player . . . that puts him on the level of a Grant Hill.  If he raises his scoring average to 25+ a game, with 7 rebs and 7 asst, you're now talking about a Larry Bird / Lebron James type.

By the way, here are the players in the history of the NBA who averaged 20 points - 7 rebounds - 7 assists in a single season, and how many times they've done it:

• Lebron James ( 8 )
• Oscar Robertson ( 6 )
• Russell Westbrook ( 4 )
• Larry Bird ( 2 ) 
• Wilt Chamberlain ( 2 )
• John Havlicek ( 2 )
• Magic Johnson ( 2 )
• James Harden ( 1 )
• Grant Hill ( 1 )
• Michael Jordan ( 1 )

All of these guys are Hall of Famers.

Doncic fits that big guard/forward playmaker who has the capability to do this, if he becomes a lethal scorer.  Even if you drop the ppg down to 16, with 7 rebs and 7 assist, the ONLY name that will be added to this list, is Fat Lever . . and Ben Simmons ( who was 15.8 ppg - 8.1 rebs - 8.2 asst last season ).   

So maybe that's the comparison.  Do people see Doncic being a similar type player ( in production ) to Ben Simmons?

 

As for Trae, his ceiling is that of a high volume scorer AND assist man.  So let's say that Trae's ceiling is to be a 21 ppg - 9 assist guy.  You still have the usual suspects from the above list on this one as well, but a few you wouldn't suspect.

• Oscar Robertson ( 9 ) . . . which is ridiculous
• Tim Hardaway ( 3 ) . . . He should definitely be in the Hall of Fame
• Russell Westbrook ( 3 ) 
• Magic Johnson ( 3 )
• Chris Paul ( 2 )
• Jerry West ( 2 )
• Isiah Thomas ( 2 )
• Tiny Archibald ( 2 )
• John Wall ( 1 )
• Michael Adams ( 1 ) . . . who I believe is the "worst" best case scenario for Trae ( a high volume, high assist, but inefficient scorer for a bad team )

 

So which is more likely?  Doncic becoming an efficient 20 pt - 7 rebs - 7 asst guy?   Or Trae becoming an efficient 21 pt - 9 assist guy?

If neither goal is likely, that's how a GM can have them on the same level.

 

[skimaskway23]

I think schlenk went with trae over doncic because of how lethal that 3 can be. Especially off the dribble, that can be a game breaker at times. 

Both are great playmakers but that 3pt range changes how teams are going to play us on screens

[TheNorthCydeRises]

10 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

 

 

 

For you younger people, the above clip was from 1990 - 91.  That Denver Nuggets team averaged a whopping 120 ppg.  The problem was that they gave up 130 ppg.   

Adams would average 26.5 ppg and 10.5 assists, but only shoot 39% FG and 29% 3FG on an unheard of 8.5 three attempts per game.

Needless to say, this is NOT what we need from Young Trae.  

Understand this though.  If Dennis gets traded, it does open up the potential for Trae to become a volume shooter next season ( just like how Dennis did last season ), due to the lack of quality shot creators on the team.   So for all of you who want Dennis gone now, don't flip out if you see Trae having the green light to do whatever he wants.

[terrell]

14 hours ago, Buzzard said:

You have to love that pick. He blocked a few shots and has potential to improve on D also. All the grades say we reached some as he was projected like 35 to 45. But not a one of them said it was a bad reach,

Perfect small ball center...Can play some min at PF also. I love the pick..

[High5]

As iffy as I am with Young, I can't find any fault with Huerter and Spellman. They seem like really solid picks.

[Peoriabird]

3 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

For you younger people, the above clip was from 1990 - 91.  That Denver Nuggets team averaged a whopping 120 ppg.  The problem was that they gave up 130 ppg.   

Adams would average 26.5 ppg and 10.5 assists, but only shoot 39% FG and 29% 3FG on an unheard of 8.5 three attempts per game.

Needless to say, this is NOT what we need from Young Trae.  

Understand this though.  If Dennis gets traded, it does open up the potential for Trae to become a volume shooter next season ( just like how Dennis did last season ), due to the lack of quality shot creators on the team.   So for all of you who want Dennis gone now, don't flip out if you see Trae having the green light to do whatever he wants.

I don't know about that...I think we will have a few more shot creator this year than last.  Prince, Baze, Bembry, and Dorsey are developing Isolation skills maybe even John.  Huerter already looks the part

[JayBirdHawk]

10 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Understand this though.  If Dennis gets traded, it does open up the potential for Trae to become a volume shooter next season ( just like how Dennis did last season ), due to the lack of quality shot creators on the team.   So for all of you who want Dennis gone now, don't flip out if you see Trae having the green light to do whatever he wants.

I can't like this enough. 

If that happens, we'll here how his defense is so bad because he has to carry the offense...sound familiar?

[AHF]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I can't like this enough. 

If that happens, we'll here how his defense is so bad because he has to carry the offense...sound familiar?

If they deal Dennis, it makes sense to sign a vet who can start if needed and can mentor regardless.  Short term deal.