Rate the Hawks Draft

[Plainview1981]

1 minute ago, ggp said:

Why?  The kid put his team on his back and won the games he had to win.  He has faced grown men for two seasons and managed to look good doing it.  He is better than Young and will likely develop a better body in the next two years.  He has proven his maturity and ability to handle adversity more so than Young.

He is a better player than Young and would have been a better ambassador of the team internationally.  

The Hawks failed to maximize their position in this draft.  Their GM failed from a talent perspective and their owner failed because he did not spend the money he needed to spend to advance the team. 

And so, another mediocre decade begins.  Young will "dazzle" some fans with long distance shooting, but not provide much more than that.  

He averaged 14 PPG.... He isn't athletic at all. Sure he can pass, and run the offense as a big guy, but Hedo and Toni could do those things and they weren't superstars either. People complain about Young's defense, but they praise this big guy that has little speed or athletic ability.

 

[Plainview1981]

Just now, Plainview1981 said:

He averaged 14 PPG.... He isn't athletic at all. Sure he can pass, and run the offense as a big guy, but Hedo and Toni could do those things and they weren't superstars either. People complain about Young's defense, but they praise this big guy that has little speed or athletic ability.

 

These white non athletic euro players rarely turn out to be really good defensive players.

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, ggp said:

Trae is a short stack that does not have the athletic ability to over come that SHORT coming.  No amount of weight training will change his defensive deficiencies.  In college, against kids, his turnovers were high.  

Right now, Young is a poor back court companion with Schröder.  Neither will defend much.  

Regardless of which player was taken, the Hawks will lose a lot for the next two seasons.  Which prospect is more likely the tougher minded?  The young kid that performed against men and put the his team on his back to win a championship, or the kid that shot a lot of jumpers but was stymied once he faced serious amateur competition?  

Would it surprise anyone to see Young turn into a pouting brat in three seasons?   

He's the same height as Mike Bibby, 2 inches taller than Chris Paul and 1 inch taller than Dennis Schröder. I'm sure you have reasons for your opinions. The kid is 19. I'm thinking he'll A) gain weight and grow a bit still and B) the coaching staff will beat defense into him. 

 

I mean really. Do we honestly think he's a finished product at 19?

 

When the Hawks drafted Dennis, he was a 19 year old Euro as well.  His first year in the league, Dennis scored a whopping 3.7 points and 1.9 assists per game.

 

Schröder's 18 year old Euro stats 25 minutes per game, 12 points, 3.2 assists, 2.5 rebounds

Doncic 18 year old Euro stats - 25 minutes per game, 14.5 points, 4.6 assists, 5.2 rebounds.

I want you to think about this really hard when stating he "played against grown men".  Doncic's 18 year old numbers are 2.5 points, 1.4 assists and 2.7 rebounds better than Dennis.  Dennis' great Euro play translated to 3.7 points per game and 1.9 assists his first season in the NBA.  Go ahead...throw out some more crazy opinions on Trae backed up with nothing. Those same "kids" you're talking about. John Collins was one of those kids who came in at 19 and put up 10.5 and 7.3 his first year in the NBA.  Donovan Mitchell, 20.5, 3.7, 3.7.  I'll take a college kid putting up 27 and 9 on a bad college team over a hyped up Euro any day. 

Doncic might turn out to be the 2nd coming of Bird, but I need to see him do it here.  Not in a league where Sergio Rodriguez was just behind him in scoring....yes, NBA player Sergio Rodriguez whose best NBA season was 7.4 and 3.4 before he washed out put up 14 points and 4.9 assists in the same Euro league this year, identical numbers to Luka Doncic. Yah, give me the short stack.

[Cwell]

People really think Doncic is gonna be a star in the NBA. Lmaooooo the B-ball IQ on here is so lowwwwwww

[EazyRoc]

3 hours ago, Plainview1981 said:

He averaged 14 PPG.... He isn't athletic at all. Sure he can pass, and run the offense as a big guy, but Hedo and Toni could do those things and they weren't superstars either. People complain about Young's defense, but they praise this big guy that has little speed or athletic ability.

 

I know right. Completely illogical.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

The fact that "the poster formerly known as Hotlanta" is somewhat supportive of this draft, makes me feel at ease.   Like he said, we haven't drafted anyone with superstar "scoring" potential of this caliber in 25 - 30 years ( really 35 years ) . . . basically back to trading for Dominique.

Summer League will shape a lot of the narrative about Trae going into the season . . . good or bad.

[Final_quest]

I tried to get excited about drafting Doncic, but never could grasp how a slow unathletic Euro who can’t shoot would take over the NBA.

Trae Young I can at least see that he does things at an elite level that will translate to the pros.  The pick protection doesn’t bother me as Dallas will be outside of top 5 next year.  

Like that we control next year’s draft with three picks again.  Wish we would have picked someone at 34.  Guarantee that was a missed opportunity.

[ShooterSays]

A+ draft and bonus points for Schlenk’s creativity. Getting the undersized kid from Davidson will look like the steal of the draft in a few years. Curry will probably go on to win us 3 championships and multiple MVPs. Klay Thompson, who we picked at 19, could also be an all star in a few years. Curry and Thompson will no doubt be the best backcourt in the NBA…watch. I don’t know much about this Draymond Green guy we picked at 30, but I could see his toughness and grit rattling opposing teams. He also has the ability to be defensive player of the year. Maybe Schlenk, the Master Negotiator, will be able to convince Lebron to come and play for us too?

And props to Schlenk for not being aggressive and moving around with 4 picks (and cap space) in the first 33. Volume is WAY better than trying to move around for the best talent. Two 2^nd round picks in the upcoming drafts are also way more valuable than a silly 33^rd pick in this year’s deep deep draft. I for one CAN NOT WAIT to see what he does with his 3 first round picks next year. We will probably draft KD, Westbrook and James Harden all in one night and be a combination of GS and OKC East.

[AHF]

C

Headline:  This Draft will be defined by Young vs Doncic.  This grade is not all about that.

#3 - We introduces a ton of risk and failed to optimize the trade.  Young has to be better than everyone in this draft other than Bagley, Ayton and JJJ.  Had he slipped as projected like Porter the expectations wouldn’t be that high.  I’m not rehashing my concerns about Young here.  He has talent and upside and needs to reach that upside while orienting his game to orchestrate a team offense.  The potential is ther and I hope he gets it.  I assume from this that Schlenk is a Young true believer and we were taking him regardless but he could and should have gotten the pick unprotected for Doncic imo.  The new draft odds make this riskier that Dallas will keep it for a few years.

#19 

Like this pick for value.  I’ve got questions about the defense pairing Huerter with Young but my only real reservation was about Schlenk being desperate to recreate the Warriors blueprint to a T when what they did was take shooting, defense and talent and then build he system around those guys rather than drafting for those exact qualities up front.  It doesn’t fill me with confidence if we are looking at a roster with precut shapes and trying to jam our picks into them.  Maximize talent and fit at a general level and customize your schemes around that.

#30 - Same as 19.  Value seems fine here.  Obviously, this is not a real freshman and he shouldn’t be judged that way and the kid was over 300 pounds for his true freshman year but  he showed a nice mix of skills that fit the modern nba and did work to drop the weight.  If he keeps working, this could be very nice at this spot.  The GS blueprint issue is my main concern here.

#34 Felt like there were longterm career options here so this is actually a significant gamble.  Picks 31-35 are equal value to their late first round counterparts given the proximity in pick and the lower financial risk of a second round pick.  Since we have an equal number of future picks likely coming this isn’t about avoiding too many rookies at one time.  I’d much rather have 34 than 45 and 47.  I will say this is muuuuch better than the initially reported cash.

Bootomline:  So the biggest thing for me is you had a bird in the hand imo and you went for two in the bush.  That gives you upside to do even better if Young is better than Doncic and we get another stud with a future Dallas pick.  Hope that happens.  We didn’t max trade value even if it happens so this draft will never be an A+ for me but it still has the potential to turn out very well.  It also has a lot more downside risk now.  This we land at a C and I’ll be cheering for our new Hawks to make this draft look like the stuff of legend in a few years.

 

 

 

(Sidenote:  I do find it amusing that someone posted a thread calling the draft “Phenomenal” and then gave it a B here.)

[deester11]

Initial Reaction to this draft : Damn (D)

Reasoning - This was more about the trade than the players.  Schlenk is no Trader Joe.  Dallas wanted Doncic badly. No protections or no deal. Period. Pick Doncic and take your ball and go home if Dallas doesn't play.  I would be willing to bet as the draft went on that protection is removed.  Then instead of using the 34th pick on still good value or high potential, you trade again for assets.  OK, but if this draft was any indication of how the Hawk's will be aggressive going forward...pass.

Less Drunken verdict: B-

Reasoning - I really like Trae. I think he'll be a much more appreciated PG than Dennis in the long run.  I also think we got the second best shooter in the draft in Huerter.  Spelman, not exciting but can shoot for a 3 and does work.  My grade comes from not being aggressive with the assets you claim to be hoarding in an effort to be aggressive. If you had no interest in 34, or wanted to go for sheer quality, you get ahead of teams that are more apt to take your players.  Young looks a helluva lot better with Walker, Williams and other talent you may have been able to jump up to get.  More than that...you still have Dennis.  I want him no where near Young. Believe it or not, not all pundits thought we did bad.  CBS and SI said we were winners.  

SI:

Schlenk might not be able to replicate the Splash Brothers, but he landed two of this year’s top shooting prospects in Young and Huerter. Although size and defensive ability are major questions that will dog Young until he establishes himself as an NBA player, he’s an exciting, fearless playmaker with a magnetic and crowd-pleasing style. Atlanta’s roster is so young and thin that losing in volume is inevitable next season, but Young should make a nice pick-and-roll pairing with John Collins, while the extra pick from Dallas should help Schlenk add to his young core. Hawks fans are wins both now and later: They can enjoy adopting Young as the new face of their franchise comfortable in the knowledge that more help is on the way.

 

[Buzzard]

I love it when posters say we did not maximize value but they fail to share a similar trade in which the team in the Hawks same position got more. CBS flat said the Mavs gave up a little much to move up only two spots; and we won the draft as well with a A and the Mavs got a A-.

Quote

This Hawks grade is for a player with a huge upside -- arguably the best shooter and passer in this class -- but also for a second pick with huge upside. Young gives Atlanta a potential star, but so does a pick that is protected only Nos. 1-5 in next year's draft. That could be a top-10 pick easily and helps Atlanta's rebuild under former Warriors executive Travis Schlenk. Grade: A

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2018-nba-draft-grades-pick-by-pick-results-analysis-for-first-and-second-rounds/

Not a big difference but a far cry from the jump off the building loss I see here. And I love the below comment from Sports Illustrated:

Quote

Atlanta may come to regret not drafting Doncic or Jackson, but you have to respect the guts it takes to roll with Young, who was the most exciting player in college basketball last season. Grade: B+

May is the keyword here and honestly anyone "may" regret their draft pick this time next year. That is not exactly an awe inspiring ground breaking news story to use the word "may". All theses guys are giving themselves outs and/or sitting on fences.

The reason is simple; they do not want to declare greatness and be wrong and they do not want to call anyone a bust and be wrong. It is like most pundits have taken Bilas politically correct stance and everyone " will be a good pro " until proven differently one way or the other.

Great draft from where I sit. We have been bitching about not having a dominant PG since passing on CP3 and Deron. We draft one and half the board is ready to commit Hara-Kiri. Fans ( fanatics ), we should really expect nothing less.

Onward we march.

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, deester11 said:

Hawks fans are wins both now and later: They can enjoy adopting Young as the new face of their franchise comfortable in the knowledge that more help is on the way.

 

I hope the “face of our franchise” drops the fancy boy on Easter Sunday look for the future.

[deester11]

Just now, AHF said:

I hope the “face of our franchise” drops the fancy boy on Easter Sunday look for the future.

Yeah...I need a more dagger type swag look. Ha

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I love it when posters say we did not maximize value but they fail to share a similar trade in which the team in the Hawks same position got more. CBS flat said the Mavs gave up a little much to move up only two spots; and we won the draft as well with a A and the Mavs got a A-.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2018-nba-draft-grades-pick-by-pick-results-analysis-for-first-and-second-rounds/

Not a big difference but a far cry from the jump off the building loss I see here. And I love the below comment from Sports Illustrated:

May is the keyword here and honestly anyone "may" regret their draft pick this time next year. That is not exactly an awe inspiring ground breaking news story to use the word "may". All theses guys are giving themselves outs and/or sitting on fences.

The reason is simple; they do not want to declare greatness and be wrong and they do not want to call anyone a bust and be wrong. It is like most pundits have taken Bilas politically correct stance and everyone " will be a good pro " until proven differently one way or the other.

Great draft from where I sit. We have been bitching about not having a dominant PG since passing on CP3 and Deron. We draft one and half the board is ready to commit Hara-Kiri. Fans ( fanatics ), we should really expect nothing less.

Onward we march.

This is the right way to look at it if you view Trae as a dominant NBA point guard so for the minority of Squawkers who believed that coming into the draft:  Enjoy!  The rest of us hope you are right.  We just have a nagging doubt in the pit of our stomach while we try to avoid looking at the downside risk for him going forward.

[Atlantaholic]

8 hours ago, nathan2331 said:

8 hours ago, Plainview1981 said:

What I'm saying is that there is a finality to the way people are talking about his defense. As if he couldn't possibly get better.

 

 

 

I don't think he will. I don't see how he is ever not a liability on defense. He has limitations physically, and I don't think he'll play hard enough on defense to even try to offset them. Hopefully he proves me wrong on the court.

Thankfully of all of the positions on the court PG is one that can be covered up more easily on defense. Curry isn't anything special on defense and Nash was a non existent defender... both won MVP awards. 

[deester11]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

This is the right way to look at it if you view Trae as a dominant NBA point guard so for the minority of Squawkers who believed that coming into the draft:  Enjoy!  The rest of us hope you are right.  We just have a nagging doubt in the pit of our stomach while we try to avoid looking at the downside risk for him going forward.

Agreed.  I wanted Doncic although I didn't see him as the superstar we crave but rather a plug and forget for 10 years because he is a great talent.  I simply thought he brought more initially to the franchise than Young who was...3rd best IMHO (I had Ayton, Doncic, Young, Bagley). 

That being said, Young is not going to be afforded the leisure to grow by those fans who want instant gratification.  I do think that if he allowed to grow as an NBA player we will appreciate him.  Now what about Dennis? 

[High5]

If the reports are true that ownership wanted Doncic and Schlenk wanted JJJ so as a compromise they went with Young then that makes the draft a fail for me. I'm already uneasy about Young (and would have been much happier with Doncic or JJJ), but this makes it so much worse. We should not be "compromising" on our most important draft pick in forever. I thought Ressler owned up to his mistakes with Dwight and promised to let Schlenk do his job, but apparently not. 

[Buzzard]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

This is the right way to look at it if you view Trae as a dominant NBA point guard so for the minority of Squawkers who believed that coming into the draft:  Enjoy!  The rest of us hope you are right.  We just have a nagging doubt in the pit of our stomach while we try to avoid looking at the downside risk for him going forward.

You view is a touch skewed and I get it. You are pissed and disappointed. I would not call the 22 with a grade of A or B vs 13 with a D or F a minority.

C is the luke warm middle ground that most of us fanatics steer clear of.

[Peoriabird]

I must admit that I wasn't the biggest Doncic fan but I thought that he was a better player than Young.  I am willing to see whether young works on his body and becomes better physically.  If he does then Schlenk was right.  I do like the Huerter pick.  He looks great on film.  Don't know much about Spellman.  Just wondering why Schlenk didn't take a chance on players that fell out of the 1st round with the 34th pick.

[Buzzard]

9 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I must admit that I wasn't the biggest Doncic fan but I thought that he was a better player than Young.  I am willing to see whether young works on his body and becomes better physically.  If he does then Schlenk was right.  I do like the Huerter pick.  He looks great on film.  Don't know much about Spellman.  Just wondering why Schlenk didn't take a chance on players that fell out of the 1st round with the 34th pick.

We are going to be a completely different team next year when Trae is on the floor. They will respect his shot; so no more daring our point guard to shoot the three while packing the D in towards Prince, Collins, and Dedmon.  I think Trae has as good a chance as any to be this years Donovan Mitchell. The rookie three point record may fall for the 2nd year in a row; and watch out for the rookie assist record. I know, rookie turn over record as well.

All I can say on your last point is I guess Schlenk thought there was no 1st round talent that he liked. Robinson, Trent Jr., and Thomas dropping was interesting; otherwise I don't think Travis likes Juniors and Seniors.