Trae Young - The Man, The Viper, and The Prosecution aka The MVP aka Ice Trae

[JeffS17]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

His on court demeanor isn't any different than a lot of other guys who have fans everywhere. 

Ehh he's worse than most tbh.  I go to all the games and he's the only one that is constantly berating the refs during every stoppage.  There are a few guys that do the same thing from time to time but not many with the same level of consistency.

 

49 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I don't understand the absolute vitriol.

Same.  The hate is unwarranted and fueled by the perception he's a foul merchant from a few years ago.  Tons of star players are worse than him though, some of which have completely opposite narratives around them too like Butler/Dame.

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, JeffS17 said:

Ehh he's worse than most tbh.  I go to all the games and he's the only one that is constantly berating the refs during every stoppage.  There are a few guys that do the same thing from time to time but not many with the same level of consistency.

You mean the only one on the Hawks?  I don't know.  It's not my favorite thing either but when i watch other teams i usually see their main guys doing the same thing.  

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

You mean the only one on the Hawks?  I don't know.  It's not my favorite thing either but when i watch other teams i usually see their main guys doing the same thing.  

Like I keep saying - we see EVERY so we see EVERY flaw. When watching other teams we see the highlights. We aren't watching the other team with a microscope.

And then sometimes, we're just looking to see something that's not even there.

[JeffS17]

6 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

You mean the only one on the Hawks?  I don't know.  It's not my favorite thing either but when i watch other teams i usually see their main guys doing the same thing.  

I think what they show on TV for Trae arguing with the refs is like 10% of the total amount he spents in their ear.  I'm truly not exaggerating when I say it's probably 50% of all stoppages.  It's not the same at all with other guys from the games I go to.  They argue after a no-call the same way as Trae does but then they usually let it go.  Trae does not let it go, he'll approach them even 3-4 plays later during a stoppage with the same energy.  Just what I see.

[kg01]

8 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Ehh he's worse than most tbh.  I go to all the games and he's the only one that is constantly berating the refs during every stoppage.  There are a few guys that do the same thing from time to time but not many with the same level of consistency.

 

Same.  The hate is unwarranted and fueled by the perception he's a foul merchant from a few years ago.  Tons of star players are worse than him though, some of which have completely opposite narratives around them too like Butler/Dame.

I have to disagree with you that there aren't guys who are worse.  They're just better at it than him, meaning, not as blatant.  Don't get me wrong, Trae is bad.  Full stop.  But he's not the worst, just has bad technique.

And it's appalling that Jimi Buttler isn't recognized similarly for his foul baiting.  There's no logical reason that people see his as gamesmanship(sic). 

[kg01]

Just now, JeffS17 said:

I think what they show on TV for Trae arguing with the refs is like 10% of the total amount he spents in their ear.  I'm truly not exaggerating when I say it's probably 50% of all stoppages.  It's not the same at all with other guys from the games I go to.  They argue after a no-call the same way as Trae does but then they usually let it go.  Trae does not let it go, he'll approach them even 3-4 plays later during a stoppage with the same energy.  Just what I see.

I agree with this.  I just think others do it similarly.  I also grade on a curve.  Scrubs arguing should not be tolerated so I grade them more harshly. 

[JeffS17]

7 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Like I keep saying - we see EVERY so we see EVERY flaw. When watching other teams we see the highlights. We aren't watching the other team with a microscope.

And then sometimes, we're just looking to see something that's not even there.

Ehhh, I understand you're speaking in generalities but since it's in response to my post I'll refute it -- I absolutely do watch everyone with a microscope when I'm at the games.  It's one of my favorite things about going to the game live, getting to see all the players and what they do during stoppages, who is buddy buddy with who, who pays attention to Quin during timeouts, etc.  It's a false equivalency to hand wave Trae's behavior off because other guys do it too.  No one I personally see is as bad as him and it's why @thecampster has even reported this as known in league circles (below).  I feel pretty strongly about this one because it's the most obvious area for improvement for this team.  Refs are human and have biases and Trae is sending those biases the wrong direction for us.  The argument that drawing fouls (even soft fouls) is a part of the game is true, even though I don't like it.  It's also true that you'll get better results having positive relationships with the refs (see: SGA), so instead of enabling this type of behavior and placing 100% of blame on the refs, why not hold Trae accountable to being better?  There's so much room for improvement.

On 1/12/2024 at 10:54 AM, thecampster said:

Trae is untouchable 1a.  But its not because he's untouchable.  Teams would not give back enough value for Trae. They understand how he limits teams and his techs/complaining have worn thin around the league and with officials.  Trae is untouchable because you'd never get back = value.

 

[RedDawg#8]

I agree that Trae has to be smarter in his approach with the refs.

For instance, when I coached our intramural team, we blatantly were getting hacked with no calls from the refs. Our best players were arguing for calls to no avail.

At one point I shouted to OUR team loud enough for the refs to hear “Stop arguing calls, just play, they are not calling fouls for us tonight, the whistle is not coming, so just play through it!!” 

To which everyone could feel the sentiment. I was not speaking to an official, I didn’t go after anyone directly, but the refs knew I was not happy. The very next trip down we got whistle in our favor. It’s like, they needed the wake up call too. The lead ref came to me and apologized later saying he missed some calls.

I was frustrated, I was heated, our team was emotional, and even though I was being passive aggressive, I made my point without escalating the situation.

Trae has to learn how to voice his frustrations without attacking anyone directly. These refs are sensitive divas too. You have to hold their hand and protect their egos too.

The best thing Trae could do honestly is every time there is a BS call or no-call against him is show the ref his back. Don’t say anything, just look away. No gestures or words. Don’t give them any attention. Go to a teammate and chat through the next play or assignment. The refs will get the same effect. They will feel frozen out. But you can’t get a “T” for ignoring. Next time you speak you keep it short. “Great game”, walk away.

They would get the message and honestly feel worse at some point to where they are like aight, Let me try something else to get attention from him. 

[kg01]

48 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

I agree that Trae has to be smarter in his approach with the refs.

For instance, when I coached our intramural team, we blatantly were getting hacked with no calls from the refs. Our best players were arguing for calls to no avail.

At one point I shouted to OUR team loud enough for the refs to hear “Stop arguing calls, just play, they are not calling fouls for us tonight, the whistle is not coming, so just play through it!!” 

To which everyone could feel the sentiment. I was not speaking to an official, I didn’t go after anyone directly, but the refs knew I was not happy. The very next trip down we got whistle in our favor. It’s like, they needed the wake up call too. The lead ref came to me and apologized later saying he missed some calls.

I was frustrated, I was heated, our team was emotional, and even though I was being passive aggressive, I made my point without escalating the situation.

Trae has to learn how to voice his frustrations without attacking anyone directly. These refs are sensitive divas too. You have to hold their hand and protect their egos too.

The best thing Trae could do honestly is every time there is a BS call or no-call against him is show the ref his back. Don’t say anything, just look away. No gestures or words. Don’t give them any attention. Go to a teammate and chat through the next play or assignment. The refs will get the same effect. They will feel frozen out. But you can’t get a “T” for ignoring. Next time you speak you keep it short. “Great game”, walk away.

They would get the message and honestly feel worse at some point to where they are like aight, Let me try something else to get attention from him. 

As a passive aggressiveness savant, I definitely agree with your sentiment.  I mean, I go hard in tha passive aggressive paint, bawse.

The guy has to be smarter about it.  There are a myriad of ways to get his point(s) across without alienating the refs.  I often wish he'd just turn and speak to Quin after a no-call or a no-continuation situation.  Like, "see what I mean".  Totally ignore the ref, then walk away.  Your point is made and, of they T you for that, they come across as so thin-skinned and petty.  But you get your actual point across.

Man, shld we start a sports psychology clinic or what? 

[shakes]

1 hour ago, RedDawg#8 said:

 

For instance, when I coached our intramural team,

I'm sorry, what?   you coached an intramural team?  That's like saying you coach pick up ball down at the Y.

[Spud2nique]

Trae live on BR addressing (bs) trade reports!  

[Spud2nique]

23 minutes ago, kg01 said:

As a passive aggressiveness savant

You’re gonna use my savant’s like that?  

[RedDawg#8]

56 minutes ago, shakes said:

I'm sorry, what?   you coached an intramural team?  That's like saying you coach pick up ball down at the Y.

I wasn’t bragging by any means and yes that is exactly what it was like lol

I was moreso just trying to use a first hand example and that’s all I had to go off of lol

[kg01]

1 minute ago, RedDawg#8 said:

I wasn’t bragging by any means and yes that is exactly what it was like lol

I was moreso just trying to use a first hand example and that’s all I had to go off of lol

@shakes just mad 'cause you cut him when he farted on his first layup attempt. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

4 hours ago, macdaddy said:

It's crazy to me he's not more liked in this league.  His on court demeanor isn't any different than a lot of other guys who have fans everywhere. 

Of course he is #2 in fan voting so maybe he really is liked just not amongst the Northeast press. 

Because a dude that small isn't supposed to be that good. 

And the fact that he does know how to get to the FT line, people hate it.  Even the league refs hate that they have to give him some calls.  And they go out of their way not to give him continuation on shots.

He also represents the "new wave" of basketball.  Curry is the Godfather of it, but Trae really connects with those smaller players 6 feet and under, who are now dominating games by shooting and passing the basketball.

And once again, little kids LOVE Trae.

[shakes]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

@shakes just mad 'cause you cut him when he farted on his first layup attempt. 

full disclosure, it was a shart and I deserved to be cut for that.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

I agree that Trae has to be smarter in his approach with the refs.

For instance, when I coached our intramural team, we blatantly were getting hacked with no calls from the refs. Our best players were arguing for calls to no avail.

At one point I shouted to OUR team loud enough for the refs to hear “Stop arguing calls, just play, they are not calling fouls for us tonight, the whistle is not coming, so just play through it!!” 

To which everyone could feel the sentiment. I was not speaking to an official, I didn’t go after anyone directly, but the refs knew I was not happy. The very next trip down we got whistle in our favor. It’s like, they needed the wake up call too. The lead ref came to me and apologized later saying he missed some calls.

I was frustrated, I was heated, our team was emotional, and even though I was being passive aggressive, I made my point without escalating the situation.

Trae has to learn how to voice his frustrations without attacking anyone directly. These refs are sensitive divas too. You have to hold their hand and protect their egos too.

The best thing Trae could do honestly is every time there is a BS call or no-call against him is show the ref his back. Don’t say anything, just look away. No gestures or words. Don’t give them any attention. Go to a teammate and chat through the next play or assignment. The refs will get the same effect. They will feel frozen out. But you can’t get a “T” for ignoring. Next time you speak you keep it short. “Great game”, walk away.

They would get the message and honestly feel worse at some point to where they are like aight, Let me try something else to get attention from him. 

 

When have you seen this approach work on the NBA level?

Here's the reality to what the rest of the league does when refs screw them over.

 

 

The whole "go out and play" mantra, is just coach speak.  At some point, you either have to stand up for yourself, or the coach needs to do it.  The passive nature of this entire organization not name Trae, is getting sickening.  You know we don't get most calls, even when we're the aggressive team.  Even the Warriors cried when Jokic got 18 FTs on them.  Steph. The coach. Everybody.

But the Hawks and Trae are just supposed to sit back and take it?

They made the rules where aggressive players going to the rim get rewarded with free throws.  But when people cry about it, they change up the rules . . . for certain players.

As much as Trae attacks the basket and gets hit, this is his fouls profile

• 257 fouls drawn
• 101 shooting fouls
• 21 and 1s

How many of those "fouls drawn" were not awarded as shooting fouls?  And how many times does he get hit, where they don't call a foul at all?

 

Trae Young being passive isn't going to change the way refs call Hawks games.  What needs to happen, is for Quin's passive reg glasses ass to start being a lot more forceful in post game press conferences, and take up for his players.  Just don't act outraged during a game.  DO a damn video presentation like Mike Brown did, that shows how these refs aren't calling the game consistently.

You tell a team to "play through it", and they will continue to get beat up and not get any calls.  It happens like this every time we play Miami.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

@shakes just mad 'cause you cut him when he farted on his first layup attempt. 

Shart  

[hawkman]

2 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

When have you seen this approach work on the NBA level?

Here's the reality to what the rest of the league does when refs screw them over.

 

 

The whole "go out and play" mantra, is just coach speak.  At some point, you either have to stand up for yourself, or the coach needs to do it.  The passive nature of this entire organization not name Trae, is getting sickening.  You know we don't get most calls, even when we're the aggressive team.  Even the Warriors cried when Jokic got 18 FTs on them.  Steph. The coach. Everybody.

But the Hawks and Trae are just supposed to sit back and take it?

They made the rules where aggressive players going to the rim get rewarded with free throws.  But when people cry about it, they change up the rules . . . for certain players.

As much as Trae attacks the basket and gets hit, this is his fouls profile

• 257 fouls drawn
• 101 shooting fouls
• 21 and 1s

How many of those "fouls drawn" were not awarded as shooting fouls?  And how many times does he get hit, where they don't call a foul at all?

 

Trae Young being passive isn't going to change the way refs call Hawks games.  What needs to happen, is for Quin's passive reg glasses ass to start being a lot more forceful in post game press conferences, and take up for his players.  Just don't act outraged during a game.  DO a damn video presentation like Mike Brown did, that shows how these refs aren't calling the game consistently.

You tell a team to "play through it", and they will continue to get beat up and not get any calls.  It happens like this every time we play Miami.

Yeah, Hunter is pretty passive and he still gets screwed.

[JayBirdHawk]

49 minutes ago, hawkman said:

Yeah, Hunter is pretty passive and he still gets screwed.

The one time Hinter showed any emotion to the refs he got a tech and was tossed. We've been on the wrong side of free throw discrepancies for years. I Remembered a game in the Smoove years we didn't get a single freethrow attempt in the first half and he was pissed and mentioned it at the half time interview.

The whole Nash 'that's not basketball' kerfuffle and the refs deciding to stifle their whistle, I feel was targeted at Trae specifically - I would be pissed too.