Trae Young is Nique for this generation...

[Jdawgflow]

40 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Trae has the potential to be the greatest offensive player in NBA history. 

Holy hyperbole, Batman.

Wilt, MJ, Harden, etc

[Spud2nique]

Just now, Jdawgflow said:

Holy hyperbole, Batman.

Wilt, MJ, Harden, etc

This is overwhelming me. Can we just go game to game?  

[Jdawgflow]

Just now, Spud2nique said:

This is overwhelming me. Can we just go game to game?  

I love Supes but the talking head hyperbole is indeed overwhelming sometimes (well, a lot of the time).

[EazyRoc]

I do think he could be one of the best PGs of all time. What he’s doing now is totally unreal. He hasn’t even reached his prime yet y’all.

[AHF]

21 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Yea, I don't know about the "right now" part. Right now you'd have to be on something to even consider swapping Trae for Steph, who could miss the entire season potentially.

I was just saying that even ignoring the injury, Trae has been significantly better year to date.  Steph was really struggling without Durant and Klay early this year.  It is possible he just wasn't going to be the same guy this year.

[NBASupes]

18 minutes ago, Jdawgflow said:

Holy hyperbole, Batman.

Wilt, MJ, Harden, etc

Look at what other offensive ATGs done in year 2

[NBASupes]

27 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I don’t know how to react to this. Yes...yes he definitely does have the potential to do that. Having said that, he needs to do what he did against Denver about 200 times over to have a shot at Mike imo. 
 

Look, I was a Bulls hater in the 90’s but we have to respect the past. It’s gonna take a whole hell of a lot to take down Jordan. People can debate all they want but I think Jordan was the best, I hope ur right though. Nothing would please me more than Trae taking him down in 15 years!

Trae does have a long way to go to reach that marker but I was just stating, he has the potential to be that guy.

[Spud2nique]

49 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Trae does have a long way to go to reach that marker but I was just stating, he has the potential to be that guy.

Agreed for sure. The thing that I love about Trae is for the most part he always makes the right plays to stay fully efficient. The only knock against this (and all players have a certain weakness) is his love to launch from 30+ feet when he’s not feeling it, just to get it going. However, to combat my own argument against this and most likely what Supes might tell me, shooters shoot. We take the good with the bad. The good with Trae faaaarrr outweighs the bad.

[NBASupes]

11 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Agreed for sure. The thing that I love about Trae is for the most part he always makes the right plays to stay fully efficient. The only knock against this (and all players have a certain weakness) is his love to launch from 30+ feet when he’s not feeling it, just to get it going. However, to combat my own argument against this and most likely what Supes might tell me, shooters shoot. We take the good with the bad. The good with Trae faaaarrr outweighs the bad.

I think people hear best offensive player of all time and think to the primes of the ATGs. Of course, a 2nd year Trae is not on that level but he is 21. His future is currently in front of him.

[Thomas]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I think people hear best offensive player of all time and think to the primes of the ATGs. Of course, a 2nd year Trae is not on that level but he is 21. His future is currently in front of him.

Yeah, breaking a landmark all-time NBA record as a twenty year old is very foretelling. 

[AHF]

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Look at what other offensive ATGs done in year 2

I'd say you should compare him after year 2 and at the same age against the ATGs....sometime late in the season when we have a very clear idea of what his end of the season numbers will look like.  Right now, a single hot streak or cold streak can skew his numbers dramatically this early in the season.  

Here are the second year lines to beat with Kareem being #1 (era adjusted), IMO:

Wilt - 38.4 ppg, 27.2 rpg, 1.9 apg, 27.8 PER, 17.0 WS

MJ - 28.2 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 5.9 apg, 2.4 spg, 25.8 PER , 14.0 WS  (rookie line because he missed almost the entire season 2 due to injury)

Magic - 21.6 ppg, 8.6 rpg, 8.6 apg, 3.4 spg, 25.7 PER, 12.8 WS (prorated WS over 74 games since missed 1/2 of season due to injury)

Big O - 30.8 ppg, 12.5 rpg, 11.4 apg, 26.0 PER, 13.4 WS

Shaq - 29.3 ppg, 13.2 rpg, 2.4 apg, 2.9 bpg, 28.5 PER, 16.9 WS

Kareem - 31.7 ppg, 16.0 rpg, 3.3 apg, 29.0 PER, 22.3 WS

LBJ - 27.2 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 7.2 apg, 2.2 spg, 25.7 PER 14.3 WS

[Jdawgflow]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Look at what other offensive ATGs done in year 2

I hear what you are saying but this still reminds me of Lloyd Christmas excited about a “chance”.

[hawkman]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I'd say you should compare him after year 2 and at the same age against the ATGs....sometime late in the season when we have a very clear idea of what his end of the season numbers will look like.  Right now, a single hot streak or cold streak can skew his numbers dramatically this early in the season.  

Here are the second year lines to beat with Kareem being #1 (era adjusted), IMO:

Wilt - 38.4 ppg, 27.2 rpg, 1.9 apg, 27.8 PER, 17.0 WS

MJ - 28.2 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 5.9 apg, 2.4 spg, 25.8 PER , 14.0 WS  (rookie line because he missed almost the entire season 2 due to injury)

Magic - 21.6 ppg, 8.6 rpg, 8.6 apg, 3.4 spg, 25.7 PER, 12.8 WS (prorated WS over 74 games since missed 1/2 of season due to injury)

Big O - 30.8 ppg, 12.5 rpg, 11.4 apg, 26.0 PER, 13.4 WS

Shaq - 29.3 ppg, 13.2 rpg, 2.4 apg, 2.9 bpg, 28.5 PER, 16.9 WS

Kareem - 31.7 ppg, 16.0 rpg, 3.3 apg, 29.0 PER, 22.3 WS

LBJ - 27.2 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 7.2 apg, 2.2 spg, 25.7 PER 14.3 WS

Kareem was a MONSTER during an era where hard fouls and fistfights right after were the norm.

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

I'd say you should compare him after year 2 and at the same age against the ATGs....sometime late in the season when we have a very clear idea of what his end of the season numbers will look like.  Right now, a single hot streak or cold streak can skew his numbers dramatically this early in the season.  

Here are the second year lines to beat with Kareem being #1 (era adjusted), IMO:

Wilt - 38.4 ppg, 27.2 rpg, 1.9 apg, 27.8 PER, 17.0 WS

MJ - 28.2 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 5.9 apg, 2.4 spg, 25.8 PER , 14.0 WS  (rookie line because he missed almost the entire season 2 due to injury)

Magic - 21.6 ppg, 8.6 rpg, 8.6 apg, 3.4 spg, 25.7 PER, 12.8 WS (prorated WS over 74 games since missed 1/2 of season due to injury)

Big O - 30.8 ppg, 12.5 rpg, 11.4 apg, 26.0 PER, 13.4 WS

Shaq - 29.3 ppg, 13.2 rpg, 2.4 apg, 2.9 bpg, 28.5 PER, 16.9 WS

Kareem - 31.7 ppg, 16.0 rpg, 3.3 apg, 29.0 PER, 22.3 WS

LBJ - 27.2 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 7.2 apg, 2.2 spg, 25.7 PER 14.3 WS

Let's not post WS, that's not an offensive stat. 

#2. Can we use per100 as well per36 as they played a lot more possessions and mpg in the old days. 

#3 Let's look at MPG and experience when they entered. Most of those guys played 3-4 years in college, Magic 2 years. 

Edited November 14, 2019 by NBASupes

[AHF]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Let's not post WS, that's not an offensive stat. 

#2. Can we use per100 as well per36 as they played a lot more possessions and mpg in the old days. 

#3 Let's look at MPG and experience when they entered. Most of those guys played 3-4 years in college, Magic 2 years. 

First, WS is divided into Offensive Win Shares and Defensive Win Shares so you can use use the OWS number and use the per 48 OWS number to do that on a minute adjusted basis.  (The possession issue plays both ways - there are guys on the list who played many fewer possessions per 36 than Trae does given Atlanta's pace and the pace of say teams in Shaq's age 21, year 2 season in 1993-94).

Second, pick whatever standard you want!  This was the parameter you picked: 

7 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Look at what other offensive ATGs done in year 2

Either way, the right time to look at this (at least for the purpose of trying to compare how Trae stacks up against ATGs) is not now but late in the year when we see a more useful sample for Trae's second season.  Right now it is something just to look at for fun.  Any hot or cold streak can have massive influence on a 9 game sample size.  Think what he looked like this time last year vs end of season.  

I'd say think about what standard you think is most useful to measure and then let's revisit the discussion later this season.

[enrique]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Let's not post WS, that's not an offensive stat. 

#2. Can we use per100 as well per36 as they played a lot more possessions and mpg in the old days. 

#3 Let's look at MPG and experience when they entered. Most of those guys played 3-4 years in college, Magic 2 years. 

For sure the minutes played by lots of the OGs were ridiculously high.

[enrique]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

First, WS is divided into Offensive Win Shares and Defensive Win Shares so you can use use the OWS number and use the per 48 OWS number to do that on a minute adjusted basis.  (The possession issue plays both ways - there are guys on the list who played many fewer possessions per 36 than Trae does given Atlanta's pace and the pace of say teams in Shaq's age 21, year 2 season in 1993-94).

Second, pick whatever standard you want!  This was the parameter you picked: 

Either way, the right time to look at this (at least for the purpose of trying to compare how Trae stacks up against ATGs) is not now but late in the year when we see a more useful sample for Trae's second season.  Right now it is something just to look at for fun.  Any hot or cold streak can have massive influence on a 9 game sample size.  Think what he looked like this time last year vs end of season.  

I'd say think about what standard you think is most useful to measure and then let's revisit the discussion later this season.

Currently Atlanta's pace is barely over 100...under 101. In other words it is waaaaaaafy slower than last season's.

[AHF]

2 hours ago, enrique said:

Currently Atlanta's pace is barely over 100...under 101. In other words it is waaaaaaafy slower than last season's.

Which is significantly faster than some of those teams like the Orlando team I mentioned.

[enrique]

8 minutes ago, AHF said:

Which is significantly faster than some of those teams like the Orlando team I mentioned.

I am assuming this article is making a similar argument. https://us.blastingnews.com/sports/2018/04/how-the-pace-of-nba-basketball-has-changed-002507131.html

[Wretch]

*crawls out of his cave

Yeah.  This is what I've been telling people for about 23 years now.  Some of the folks I used to argue with had no concept of what a star was or what it meant to have one.  That is the result of a grave oversight carried over from regime to regime.  

We have a guy that commands attention and it frees up other players.  He routinely has 3 players swarming him.  And not only can he actually SEE the guys that are open, but he can get the ball to them in a way that I haven't seen in a LONG time. 

It doesn't get much more special than that. 

This will bring people to the games.  It's what makes top tier free agents talk to you and it is the foundation that contenders are built upon.

Where is CBA Reject lol...we got the engine now.