Ask Supes

[bird_dirt]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Booker was literally the 7th best player on Kentucky's roster that season even if he was one of the most talented... That squad hid the real KAT from us as well. 

7th isn't at all true. He avg 3rd most points (1 pt behind  no. 1). I could see someone saying 3rd (after Lyles and KAT).

Booker was clutch. 

WCS was improved,  and Poythress was as solid as he was underwhelming. The twins made you pull your hair out, and Ulis broke out the following year. 

And I don't even know about the KAT comment. He was so well hidden that he went Number 1 in the draft! Didn't shoot 3s like crazy then,  but he had a solid shot. I'm honestly surprised he hasn't had more defensive success in the NBA. He showed much more on that end at KY.

 

[Spud2nique]

15 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

he was showing his ass

[NBASupes]

On 8/17/2020 at 1:21 PM, bird_dirt said:

7th isn't at all true. He avg 3rd most points (1 pt behind  no. 1). I could see someone saying 3rd (after Lyles and KAT).

Booker was clutch. 

WCS was improved,  and Poythress was as solid as he was underwhelming. The twins made you pull your hair out, and Ulis broke out the following year. 

And I don't even know about the KAT comment. He was so well hidden that he went Number 1 in the draft! Didn't shoot 3s like crazy then,  but he had a solid shot. I'm honestly surprised he hasn't had more defensive success in the NBA. He showed much more on that end at KY.

 

KAT was more of a defensive minded prospect with a great shooting touch but I didn't know he was this.

[Spud2nique]

What made you love Toppin? (Based on the thread title).

[NBASupes]

24 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

What made you love Toppin? (Based on the thread title).

The first time I seen him this year in the Hawaii Tourney. I was like, Dayton? I heard about Obi Toppin from the Nike event and he was the best player but I remember he worked out with Atlanta and I didn't hear he stood out as a potential draft pick. Too small is what I heard 210 at the time of the workout. I wasn't really expecting much honestly. 

UGA/Dayton. Edwards/Hammonds v. Toppin - I had Hammonds as a potential 1st rounder-early 2nd rounder if he continues to grow and obviously Edwards as the 1st overall pick. Toppin, I had expected him to be a 2nd rounder. I seen some nice highlights the previous season but I didn't think, this guy can be good in the NBA. 

He was dominate, possession by possession. He played the perfect modern big like Al Horford. I was like WTF is this. I was expecting to see UGA in a real game against a potentially good team, Edwards to shine and they got their ass whooped. 

So I was like, I will keep watching Dayton. He just kept impressing me. I was expecting it to be like De'Andre Hunter, where he impressed me but by the mid point of the season, I can tell this guy is near his potential but I am still very impressed by his mental ability, potential versatility down the road, and the fact that he has so many strengths with so few flaws when projecting down the road. I never saw the Kawhi stuff but I did see a good player who can potentially defend 2-5 (smaller 5s). 

What I got was, no this dude is an elite offensive player. He can produce. His defense obviously did standout as a weakness which does hurt him for being a #1 pick but that makes sense to some degree. 

For me, his playmaking, decision making, feel for the game, BBIQ, intangibles, finishing, and scheme versatility is what impress me most. The other stuff was a nice add, the explosiveness, movement skills, shooting touch, shooting was a tad rough, I think he needs some work on it still, potential face-up and ball-handling game. He just has it all offensively for a movement big. I hear him say he wants to play like AD but AD isn't exactly the best big to model after. I honestly think he should just take bits and pieces, he's does more than just about every PF I've ever seen in the modern game. I can't think of one PF who can do more than Toppin. Not one. He obviously can't dominate the way Giannis can, no one can but he does more. He does more than anyone and that's what's impressive and the average fan doesn't understand what does more is. They don't really understand the game like that the way coaches and GMs can. I get it, but I hope the GMs do. They tend to overscout and I think it's a mistake in this case. This kid is the real deal. 

Edited August 23, 2020 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

Spud, listen to this on Toppin from his parents. 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/no-s-toppin-the-incredible-rise-of-obi/id1496175941?i=1000468384331

This says a lot. 25 min mark. His dad talks about how he was getting him the exposure at such a young age. High end exposure. Not AAU, he didn't play AAU till 17. This is part of the reason why his game is so impactful. He was taught how to play the game, the right way mentally. This doesn't just come. Luka and guys like Trae just aren't born with it. They are coached and trained. 

That's why I keep saying, this kid is different. Don't pass on him. He is special. I don't feel that way about anyone else is this class. I am skeptical but not with this kid and how we play in our system. 

[NBASupes]

Three things to add: 

1. Teams don't know what the cap will be and want to play with fans to make up money lost. The NBA doesn't know but they want to keep the draft on the same date but teams are not happy because we don't know the cap, some teams might only be able to trade picks once they know but the NBA doesn't want to move the draft back and made it clear they want to build off the momentum of the bubble. RealGM had an article about this but it's more complex behind the scenes. Some teams would you their picks to sell players and without it, some could be in trouble. This could benefit the Hawks A LOT. Because if the cap goes to 100-106 range, teams who weren't in the LT are now in the LT. The Hawks could get some vets who are good for free which will save them from having to sign FAs where there is comp. 

2. Some non-bubble teams i.e. - Bulls, Hawks, and Knicks wanted to be in the bubble so they can see the growth from their young players for year 2 like Washington, Denver, PHX, and others have seen. The reason Boylen was kept was Chicago was waiting to see if they were going to play scrimmage games is what he was told. Once it was official what we had, he was fired. 

3. Due to the bubble, a weak FA class and draft class. Do not expect any major trades to go down. Expect next year to see a fully competitive season. They also do not expect to play in a a bubble. 

Edited August 24, 2020 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

Here are some soft things I am hearing but not from my guy: 

Cleveland is really warming up to Isaac Okoro at 5

Chicago is looking to go international at #4 Leaning to Deni or Killian

Atlanta is being mystery meat like usual at this time. 

GS is like Atlanta. 

Charlotte- see Atlanta

Minny - See Atlanta. 

[NBASupes]

Surprised my guy is up. Hears is the latest from text

Asked about Min: He said he has nothing, the new ownership potential means nothing coming out will be clear. 

Asked about GS: He said they want to move down but if they can't, they will choose between Edwards, Ball, Wiseman, and Deni. AKA the younger prospects. There was also some interest in Toppin, Okoro and Vassell but not sure if there still is at this slot now that it is confirmed. 

Asked about the Hornets: He actually had good shit on CHA. Said MJ will not be pressured into a prospect. That he will take who he feels is the best player available for how he sees the team and how wants the team to play. I asked about Ball, he said anyone picked will have to fit what Hornets want. They have their own board. I asked who is the most likely for the pick, he said they like Wiseman if available but aren't moving for him. CHA wants to keep their picks.

Asked about the Bulls and he confirmed the Bulls are looking at the intls. He said the Bulls are looking at a large number of players right now.

Asked about Cleveland he said they are looking for wings who can defend. They are targeting Okoro, Vassell and will look at Patrick Williams. A defensive wing is what they are targeting. They do not think this draft is that good and are focusing on need where role player talent is high in this draft. 

Asked about our Hawks. He said he has nothing new other then, if LaMelo Ball falls to Atlanta, they will take him at #6 and maybe could package him for a vet or keep him. He hasn't seen signs of Atlanta looking to moving yet but it's early. This goes in line what he said before as well. Ball seems to be high on our board.

DET: Nothing at this time. 

Knicks: They want to get a player that fits the style of play they want in NY. Thibs style, not sure what that is at this time. Taj seems to be a keeper and Randle is on the trading block he said.

WAS: Looking for BPA 

PHX: Looking for a PG. 

[Spud2nique]

8 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Ball seems to be high on our board.

I read management and brass was split on him.

[NBASupes]

My two cents: I believe if Ball falls to 6 which could happen that we will likely keep him. The trade value of the 1st overall pick is not that high in this draft so if someone wanted him, they can easily get him.

[Spud2nique]

9 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Asked about GS: He said they want to move down but if they can't, they will choose between Edwards, Ball, Wiseman, and Deni.

My guy says Golden State is going to let their players have a say, and they will lean towards Okongwu after they see what he does. I’ll be mad if the Warriors get Okongwu.  

[Spud2nique]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

My two cents: I believe if Ball falls to 6 which could happen that we will likely keep him. The trade value of the 1st overall pick is not that high in this draft so if someone wanted him, they can easily get him.

That would be awesome. We would ultimately have the best passing tandem in the league on the same team in Atlanta. Having said that, no way he falls to 6.

[NBASupes]

Just now, Spud2nique said:

I read management and brass was split on him.

I am not even sure honestly. I don't believe for one second they will trade up for him. I think it's like Cam Reddish for us last year. If he falls to us, we will take him. 

There are a lot of industry people just unsure on him in particular but see the talent. Scouts are selling. He's falling and from people around him, that he's working hard. I honestly think the blow back is due to LaVar and his damn mouth and Zo failure in New Orleans. Right now, no one sees Melo as a starter year 1 is what I am hearing. Doesn't shoot well enough is what I got from my contact in the bay. Scouts been digging him out heavy of late. Edwards is getting it too but they see Edwards in a higher light. Much higher. This might be 2013 all over again. Bulls already pushed their focus to the internationals. Golden State working hard to try to see if we can get workouts and F2F.

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

My guy says Golden State is going to let their players have a say, and they will lean towards Okongwu after they see what he does. I’ll be mad if the Warriors get Okongwu.  

That's something, because both bay connects I have reached out to said Okongwu is no longer on their BB due to fear that he's not better than Chriss. They see him as mid to late lottery pick is what both told me. Not just the one that told me he doesn't shoot well enough. 

I truly don't think they want Wiseman but the players do. Not sure why... 

[Spud2nique]

10 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

because both bay connects I have reached out to said Okongwu is no longer on their BB due to fear that he's not better than Chriss.

Fire your bay connects. Gwu is very much on their radar. Not better than Chriss? Do your bay connects watch warriors basketball. Chriss took a huge step up last year but in no way, shape or form should he even be mentioned with Okongwu.  

[NBASupes]

26 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Fire your bay connects. Gwu is very much on their radar. Not better than Chriss? Do your bay connects watch warriors basketball. Chriss took a huge step up last year but in no way, shape or form should he even be mentioned with Okongwu.  

Lol, that's just what was said. Not that I agree. I do think he's too small to start in the NBA yet. 

That being said, the only team I think would be open to moving up for Wiseman and giving a top 5-10 protected 1st is the Washington Wizards. If GS moves back, that's the team that would do it on such a high risk draft. Especially if they don't get the F2F workouts like GS is crying about. GS could end up with Big O at the end of the process anyway. 

Just based on what I have too early in the process:

1. Edwards 

2. Wiseman

3. Toppin

4. Deni

5. Okoro

6. Ball

7. Hayes

8. Vassell

9. Okongwu 

10. Haliburton 

It's too early in the process. I just think Edwards and Wiseman are good placeholders at 1 and 2. Charlotte and Obi Toppin just makes sense to me. Deni or Killan, without a workout, I can see Deni getting it. Okoro just makes sense for Cleveland. Ball and Atlanta isn't my favorite marriage but if their is smoke, there's fire. I think DET will take the best player on the board. NY with Thibs, I can see them going role player as they will be taking their time with this process. Washington wants a center, Tommy Sheppard has made it clear. PHX and PG makes sense. Keep drafting em to you finally hit on one. Kira Lewis, Cole Anthony, and if Hayes falls could be an option as well. 

Edited August 24, 2020 by NBASupes

[RedDawg#8]

If we like Ball, and we want Ball, we will find a way to get Ball. It won't take an act of desperation either.

TS is one to sit on his hands draft night if he knows who he wants. Even if its just to leverage for other deals. 

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

If we like Ball, and we want Ball, we will find a way to get Ball. It won't take an act of desperation either.

TS is one to sit on his hands draft night if he knows who he wants. Even if its just to leverage for other deals. 

I don't believe Atlanta is serious for Ball. We did this with Reddish last year. Talked him up to everyone but when it came down to it they were willing to trade 8+19 or was it 17 we had for R.J. Barrett. 

Not to say Atlanta isn't interested but everyone knows when Atlanta is sold, they will take their bidding seriously. 

[JayBirdHawk]

6 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I am not even sure honestly. I don't believe for one second they will trade up for him. I think it's like Cam Reddish for us last year. If he falls to us, we will take him. 

There are a lot of industry people just unsure on him in particular but see the talent. Scouts are selling. He's falling and from people around him, that he's working hard. I honestly think the blow back is due to LaVar and his damn mouth and Zo failure in New Orleans. Right now, no one sees Melo as a starter year 1 is what I am hearing. Doesn't shoot well enough is what I got from my contact in the bay. Scouts been digging him out heavy of late. Edwards is getting it too but they see Edwards in a higher light. Much higher. This might be 2013 all over again. Bulls already pushed their focus to the internationals. Golden State working hard to try to see if we can get workouts and F2F.

GSW didn't want to participate in the 1st or 2nd bubbles, they seem to get what they want. So I guess if they are vocal enough about workouts and F2F it'll happen.