KB's thoughts on team building

[KB21]

13 minutes ago, enrique said:

You are aware those 3 players would cost us 64 million this year alone. 

I don't really care.  The team would not be mired in the misery of the past three years with very little hope of things improving anytime soon.

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I don't really care.  The team would not be mired in the misery of the past three years with very little hope of things improving anytime soon.

They would have been fighting to get to .500 while likely missing the playoffs during that period with very little hope of improving things.  They were projected to have a losing record their last season together as it was and Sap's production hasn't come close to that since.

[macdaddy]

12 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I don't really care.  The team would not be mired in the misery of the past three years with very little hope of things improving anytime soon.

We were very much mired in misery already.  

[KB21]

8 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

We were very much mired in misery already.  

Nothing can match the misery of the past three seasons.  It's been unwatchable for the most part.  I'd much rather see this team compete for the 8th playoff spot than do what this team has done over the past three seasons.  

[enrique]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Nothing can match the misery of the past three seasons.  It's been unwatchable for the most part.  I'd much rather see this team compete for the 8th playoff spot than do what this team has done over the past three seasons.  

Oh, I’d beg to differ. The 1999-2006/7 rebuild took the cake for me. 

[Lurker]

There are a few situations from 16/17 that I won’t ever forget (most specifically, Hardaway Jr’s outburst in Houston and the two late Cleveland games) but I think I’ll never understand getting the warms and fuzzies from that season.

That season sucked for me worse than a losing season does. For me, what’s worse than a tank, rebuild, or whatever you want to call it, is a team that’s supposed to be competitive getting blown out of the water multiple times and several games where it looked like the players didn’t care, I truly do think that Paul Millsap was the only thing holding that team from being in the mid-30s probably in wins, and that year was one of his last great years. Even thinking about it brings back the memory of how I compared it to the 2014 Braves. Still feel that way.

[macdaddy]

2 hours ago, KB21 said:

Nothing can match the misery of the past three seasons.  It's been unwatchable for the most part.  I'd much rather see this team compete for the 8th playoff spot than do what this team has done over the past three seasons.  

Therein lies the difference.  I've loved watching the last two seasons way more than the previous two.

[NBASupes]

19 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Therein lies the difference.  I've loved watching the last two seasons way more than the previous two.

I hated every team after DMC left till we drafted Trae.

The last two years have been tough but promising

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Lowry took about five years or even more to put it together and Trae is 21 and in his second season so maybe this is a really good comparison. Radically different situations but who gives a flip about accurate history and yet perfection on both ends is expected from Trae in the next five minutes. Am happy he has put us on the map myself.

So, which is it?  When I told you all how long this was going to take, the response I got was that it wouldn’t take that long.  Now that it has already taken 3 years, I’m being told that I need to be patient.  So, which is it?

[JayBirdHawk]

6 minutes ago, Thomas said:

You did't personally tell me [Shinola! I can't tell the difference. ~lw3] and this is indeed the last time I respond directly to you. Your are not healthy for a Hawk's fan site.

Oh Thomas! 

[KB21]

11 minutes ago, Thomas said:

You did't personally tell me [Moiso! man do I wish I had SB Nation powers. ~lw3] and this is indeed the last time I respond directly to you. Your are not healthy for a Hawk's fan site.

So, then you are admitting that I am right then.

[sturt]

Bad timing on my part... @lethalweapon3 , you slid that lock on just a sliver of a second before I clicked submit... ...but your point was well taken that the OP topic had evidently been abandoned.

So, I will make this my only contribution to a thread that it boggles my mind even received a single reply.

===========

  

3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

You wanted numbers.  I gave you numbers.

You repeat yourself, fair enough, I'll repeat myself... I gave you the point anyhow, and proceeded to address your point.

 

4 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Yet you want to continue to dance around the fact that teams who delve off into the lottery as their method of team building tend to stay in the lottery for extended periods of time.  You can blame it on average GMing or whatever.

Indeed, I can.

Is that your answer to it?

Dismissiveness is the best you can do?

Wellllll, why of course, it is.

 

5 minutes ago, KB21 said:

The fact of the matter is, the talent pool they are choosing from isn’t that great to begin with.  

I'll even grant you that point. Okay. So?

There remains no better pragmatic way to obtain an elite player than to draft one. As bad as those odds may be, they remain better than any. other. option.

You're holding on with a death grip to your zombie of an argument, and do your Elaine imitation and deny the obvious, but it is what it is. Many of us don't know whether to allow ourselves to laugh out loud at how one can become quite so ego-invested, or mourn the loss of what once was a somewhat coherent voice on this board. It really is almost like some negative nelly imposter has hacked into the old kb's account, and ruining his formerly good reputation.

[KB21]

18 minutes ago, sturt said:

Bad timing on my part... @lethalweapon3 , you slid that lock on just a sliver of a second before I clicked submit... ...but your point was well taken that the OP topic had evidently been abandoned.

So, I will make this my only contribution to a thread that it boggles my mind even received a single reply.

===========

  

You repeat yourself, fair enough, I'll repeat myself... I gave you the point anyhow, and proceeded to address your point.

 

Indeed, I can.

Is that your answer to it?

Dismissiveness is the best you can do?

Wellllll, why of course, it is.

 

I'll even grant you that point. Okay. So?

There remains no better pragmatic way to obtain an elite player than to draft one. As bad as those odds may be, they remain better than any. other. option.

You're holding on with a death grip to your zombie of an argument, and do your Elaine imitation and deny the obvious, but it is what it is. Many of us don't know whether to allow ourselves to laugh out loud at how one can become quite so ego-invested, or mourn the loss of what once was a somewhat coherent voice on this board. It really is almost like some negative nelly imposter has hacked into the old kb's account, and ruining his formerly good reputation.

Did New Orleans not draft an elite player in Anthony Davis?   Did Minnesota not draft an elite player in KAT?

So, according to you, the beat way to win a championship is to suck for multiple years and then hope after multiple lottery picks you finally hit on enough that you can go from bad to good?

Its funny how you move the goalposts when I was the one that told all of you that it would take 5 years to become a playoff team at the earliest by choosing this method.  
 

What is your deflection going to be when this team does not make the playoffs in year four?

[sturt]

36 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Did New Orleans not draft an elite player in Anthony Davis?   Did Minnesota not draft an elite player in KAT?

That I have some hamburger also doesn't mean I can make meatloaf.

But the hamburger is nonetheless essential.

Just because you can check off obtaining that elite player doesn't mean there's a championship run in your team's future.

But the elite player is nonetheless essential.

And...

1 hour ago, sturt said:

There remains no better pragmatic way to obtain an elite player than to draft one. As bad as those odds may be, they remain better than any. other. option.

If you have a superior young-talent evaluator as your GM, then you're able to accumulate some assets to put around that elite player.

If you don't, then you might have the NOP or MIN GM.

36 minutes ago, KB21 said:

So, according to you, the beat way to win a championship is to suck for multiple years and then hope after multiple lottery picks you finally hit on enough that you can go from bad to good?

So,  you're really going to make me repeat myself? According to the last 20 years of NBA history... i.e., essentially what was the first modern-era CBA rules... i.e., not me... the championship has belonged to teams that had at least one elite player which can be defined as at least one player who has finished top 5 in MVP voting in multiple years.

If you don't have that, you're not even in the conversation.

But having that doesn't finish the conversation. It's the foundation. The rest of the house also has to be built.

If it was easy, all 30 teams would do it. But they can't because it isn't. Like there is such a thing as elite players, there is such a thing as elite evaluators of young talent.

Again, the focal question isn't what has history told us about the roster composition of championship teams, but rather, if you really want to try your hand at a legitimate debate, focus on the question of whether Schlenk is one of those elite young talent evaluators or not.

36 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Its funny how you move the goalposts when I was the one that told all of you that it would take 5 years to become a playoff team at the earliest by choosing this method.  

Why, I'm sure the strawman would be more than pleased to dance with you.

Not sure who you're referring to. I've personally not moved any goalposts at all. I still consider us to have at least a shot at serious contention in two years.

Compared to that hamster wheel we were on, I'm satisfied we're in a better position.

36 minutes ago, KB21 said:

What is your deflection going to be when this team does not make the playoffs in year four?

Whoa. So, let me get this straight. You're deflecting this conversation away from the substance by asking about future deflection? That's good stuff.

We'll let the crow fly to whichever plate after next season on that one, but as uncomfortable as it might be for you to keep gripping that hand of your zombie argument, I'm quite content to stick to this current discussion and watch you exhaust yourself spinning, wiggling and dodging in an effort to avoid conceding even the smallest of points, let alone the major one. 

But having said that, I've got about 5 hours of sleep to get done, and a full day tomorrow, so this is where I have to push pause. G'nite.

[lethalweapon3]

Thank you fellas for directing the convo here! (Some of the discussions from the Cam thread may get Split over here later for posterity's sake.)

Go Team Building!

~lw3

[sturt]

8 hours ago, sturt said:

So, I will make this my only contribution to a thread that it boggles my mind even received a single reply.

Disgusted with myself.

Okay, Amend to say "one of only two contributions." Technically, three if we're counting this. No more resuscitating a thread that should have been left with a DNR order after the OP.

[KB21]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

Disgusted with myself.

Okay, Amend to say "one of only two contributions." Technically, three if we're counting this. No more resuscitating a thread that should have been left with a DNR order after the OP.

Of course.  I keep pointing out the fallacy of the decision to burn the team to the ground and commit to multiple years of losing, and no one can come up with any logical reasoning why that was the correct method of team building to use.

[AHF]

8 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Of course.  I keep pointing out the fallacy of the decision to burn the team to the ground and commit to multiple years of losing, and no one can come up with any logical reasoning why that was the correct method of team building to use.

Look at your history of NBA champions and how many of them (a) either are housed in LA where their market got them superstars or (b) began their run with 3+ years in the lottery.   Then look at how many built from the middle ala your desired approach with the 1997-98 Hawks (i.e., not the Bulls after multiple lottery runs setting up their team's core and then going to a bordlerline playoff team and winning from there). 

Even the Spurs won their original championship with #1, #1 and #3 picks and never won a ring without one of those picks.  

The Raptors and Pistons are exceptional in compiling a team of vets from smart trades and FA signings compared to the number of teams with key core built from lottery assets (GS, Cavs, Spurs, Heat, Mavs, Celtics, Bulls, Rockets, Pistons, etc.)

[KB21]

1 minute ago, terrell said:

53/18/11..My bad...lol

It’s not sustainable.

[terrell]

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

It’s not sustainable.

 I can see Trae avg 25/10/4 and Cam avg 18/3/5 within the next couple of years..THats 43/13/9. Not to mention how much better Cam will be on defense by then....Ill take it...

Edited March 10, 2020 by terrell