Hiding Trae Defensively is priority going forward...

[Peoriabird]

35 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

We're losing because of sloppy and inconsistent play at the 2 and 3.  And now there's no real backup at 3 or 4.  We addressed PG and C at the expense of what little depth we had at 3 and 4 (granted Jabari wasn't even playing).  This isn't a complete team this season and it isn't going to be but it's hard to win when only the 1,4,5 are playing at an nba level and they aren't great defenders. 

What so different this year vs last year?

[Lurker]

Schlenk made a mistake in evaluating the depth on his team and outside of Bembry, the wings are first year players, and while Bazemore and Prince weren't great, first year players can struggle. Reddish in particular was really thrown to the wolves like Trae was, and wasn't as close as Trae was to getting it, although there are signs lately that throwing him to the wolves is going to work in the super long haul.

[Buzzard]

The first 10 games are going to tell us real quick if LP knows what to do with our new additions: Capela, Dedmon, Teague and to some extent Goodwin.

We take on:

Heat, Mavs, 76ers, Magic, Nets, Trailblazers, Grizzlies, Wizards, Grizzlies, Hornets

With the exceptions of the Trailblazers and Hornets they all feature pretty good big play. I honestly think that is a really tough start; but after losing last night, no excuses.

[macdaddy]

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

What so different this year vs last year?

Prince, Baze, Heurter (right now) is better than Cam, Hunter, Heurter

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Prince, Baze, Heurter (right now) is better than Cam, Hunter, Heurter

Prince is only slightly better than Hunter but despite current popular beliefs by several posters, Trae and John are better this season vs last season and we are still getting blown out by the Cavs.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

Prince is only slightly better than Hunter but despite current popular beliefs by several posters, Trae and John are better this season vs last season and we are still getting blown out by the Cavs.

That was the case when the season started when Hunter was one of the only rookies rocking a neutral or positive WAR. Not even Morant was rocking it. Now, he has freefalled. He's a -1 WAR. Cam is going on two months of outplaying Hunter badly. Hunter hit a massive wall.

[Peoriabird]

8 hours ago, NBASupes said:

That was the case when the season started when Hunter was one of the only rookies rocking a neutral or positive WAR. Not even Morant was rocking it. Now, he has freefalled. He's a -1 WAR. Cam is going on two months of outplaying Hunter badly. Hunter hit a massive wall.

What was Prince's war last year?

[NBASupes]

3 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

What was Prince's war last year?

.1 WAR. Scrub status considering it was year 3. Hunter defense this year has been better than Prince over the last two years. Prince had a tremendous rookie year defensively but that was likely due to having Millsap and Antic who were terrific help defenders and great at switching.

Edited February 14, 2020 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

13 hours ago, macdaddy said:

Prince, Baze, Heurter (right now) is better than Cam, Hunter, Heurter

Huerter last year was better than Huerter this year but Baze and Prince have had better overall seasons so far than the rookie wings. 

It was looking like early on Hunter was better for us than Prince was last year but Hunter hit a rookie wall something vicious. Both him and R.J. Barrett. 

Cam has massively improved like Trae did last year but Trae only ended the season slightly better overall than Baze and Prince. Kevin and John had better years last year overall. 

This year, Trae is a damn offensive juggernaut but everyone else has taken a major hit. Kevin and John have trended down. Teams know what we do now like the year after the 60 win team but we aren't adjusting well outside of Trae. Trae jump should come to no surprise. He was literally the worst player in the NBA by metrics with Sexton by the end of NOV. Took a big jump in DEC and JAN.

In February after ASW, he became a damn offensive superstar. The fact that he ended up with a positive WAR is a massive jump considering he had a worse WAR then Cam did by the end of NOV which was also the worst in the NBA like Cam.

This is normal. Chicago had the same thing happen. Teams know what you do, they adjust and you gotta either improve or you will fall behind and get stuck. Losing the vets did hurt but I am convinced some of these guys haven't improved as much as I would like. 

Edited February 14, 2020 by NBASupes

[Peoriabird]

43 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

 Teams know what we do now like the year after the 60 win team but we aren't adjusting well outside of Trae.

This is normal. Chicago had the same thing happen. Teams know what you do, they adjust and you gotta either improve or you will fall behind and get stuck.

I think you are on to something...We haven't really adjusted as a team and that's on the coach!  He certainly has done nothing to improve the defense...In fact he has made things worse with his irregular rotations.  I defended Pierce in the past but right now I have to agree with @KB21....Pierce has not demonstrated that he is a good NBA coach yet.

[macdaddy]

16 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I think you are on to something...We haven't really adjusted as a team and that's on the coach!  He certainly has done nothing to improve the defense...In fact he has made things worse with his irregular rotations.  I defended Pierce in the past but right now I have to agree with @KB21....Pierce has not demonstrated that he is a good NBA coach yet.

You guys hit it.  I was fine with letting Baze and Prince go but as you would expect the two rookies are a lot more inconsistent and when you're playing from behind all the time it's just a killer.  We could use at least one solid wing who can stabalize things when the rookies get out of sorts.  

I don't see much point in discussing LP since we know he'll get at least a shot next year to prove things.  But if we don't play much better next season and/or Trae is unhappy i can see him getting canned in January 21.   Wouldn't be surprised if we see a veteran coach put on the staff for next year.

[JayBirdHawk]

If Ole man Vince can give this kind of effort, I need to see some of this from our young players:

 

 

[macdaddy]

Most young guys just don't understand what real nba effort is.  They think they are doing it but they aren't.

[Buzzard]

37 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

You guys hit it.  I was fine with letting Baze and Prince go but as you would expect the two rookies are a lot more inconsistent and when you're playing from behind all the time it's just a killer.  We could use at least one solid wing who can stabilize things when the rookies get out of sorts.  

I don't see much point in discussing LP since we know he'll get at least a shot next year to prove things.  But if we don't play much better next season and/or Trae is unhappy i can see him getting canned in January 21.   Wouldn't be surprised if we see a veteran coach put on the staff for next year.

I think we need a wing to. I have been trying to justify Hunter with Reddish as his backup all season. But Reddish and Huerter really need to be the shooting guard rotation. In free agency, I like Porter Jr, and @sturt mentioned Jerami Grant who I see as a tweener. Grant has grown on me the more I keep up with him.

Real small forwards are weak in this draft which may have been Schlenk playing chess again when he moved up last season to get Hunter. Some people like Okoro out of Auburn as a tweener forward but I am liking Bey out of Villanova more every week. If we were to trade down and take Bey, you would not hear me complain.

Edited February 14, 2020 by Buzzard

[NBASupes]

45 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I think you are on to something...We haven't really adjusted as a team and that's on the coach!  He certainly has done nothing to improve the defense...In fact he has made things worse with his irregular rotations.  I defended Pierce in the past but right now I have to agree with @KB21....Pierce has not demonstrated that he is a good NBA coach yet.

He has demonstrated he is extremely talented which is why I am team LP and I usually hate our coaches outside of Bud.

Players like Kevin and John have improved but the levels they needed to improve might not be attainable. 

Kevin had a rare rookie year. He had so much success as a rookie, he was compared to future all stars who were sophomores. That might have been attainable and he simply just got lucky as a rookie. 

He played off the bench with our strong 1st half bench. Now he played a big role but if he was starting, he could have had a normal rookie year like Hunter. I remember metrics at the time saying he was better than Klay Thompson at that time. Then when he moved to start, he wasn't as good but he was still pretty good to the point he played over 2k minutes and had a 1 WAR.

That's extremely difficult for a rookie wing to do. Extremely difficult. He was compared to 2nd year Joe Johnson. 3rd year Jamal Murray. A lot of really good players who weren't even rookies in the comparison. Maybe he just wasn't as good as the metrics due to situation was elite for him.

Year 2, teams know what he is, what he can do and have adjusted. He needed to be year 3 Bradley Beal to maintain his level pathway. He just wasn't that talent or gifted to do that. That's not on LP. Thats just happens. We seen it happen to Lauri M too. 

For John, we all knew this could happen since the PnR is our bread and butter with him and he doesn't have much self creation skills. LP mentioned that teams would do this after the season ended last year and was right. 

I realize quick that John simply isn't big enough and would really have to be a stretch 4 to maintain his status and that might not be enough. I was right. I don't know if you can blame LP. 

[NBASupes]

35 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

You guys hit it.  I was fine with letting Baze and Prince go but as you would expect the two rookies are a lot more inconsistent and when you're playing from behind all the time it's just a killer.  We could use at least one solid wing who can stabalize things when the rookies get out of sorts.  

I don't see much point in discussing LP since we know he'll get at least a shot next year to prove things.  But if we don't play much better next season and/or Trae is unhappy i can see him getting canned in January 21.   Wouldn't be surprised if we see a veteran coach put on the staff for next year.

I don't think we need a major one but a decent Bazemore level vet could help the rotation. Like an Ariza type. The lack of minutes are always the biggest issue for potential vets. 

Reddish has proved to me he is ready for a bigger role. +2 WAR in the last two months. I think he is ready.

[JayBirdHawk]

12 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Most young guys just don't understand what real nba effort is.  They think they are doing it but they aren't.

I came across this article unexpectedly...Klay Thompson and how he developed into the defender he is today.

It piqued my interest because I always thought he came into the NBA as a defender - Not so much. His draft profile used terms like average athlete, lacks great footspeed, 

Quote

In fact, it was a goal for Thompson to become “a two-way force” in the NBA, and the path towards developing defensive skills to match his offensive prowess began in 2012 under then-coach Mark Jackson. Here’s what Thompson did to become a defensive menace, how his defense shuts down opposing offenses and what his NBA peers think of his abilities:

Thompson told The New York Times recently that the process of becoming a solid defender began by squatting his way to a more solid lower body. In “Golden State’s Klay Thompson Is a Different Kind of Dangerous,” Thompson recounts the grueling summer of 2012 that followed his rookie season.

“They would kill us,” Thompson said. “It was not fun, man.”

Golden State didn’t make the postseason that year, so Thompson worked with other young players on the team to get better defensively. According to the Times, “the coaching staff would put 60 minutes on the clock and have them defend” — without stopping.

I always thought I had fast feet,” Thompson told the Times.

And that’s a good thing, given his general lack of hops — when Klay Thompson dunks, it’s as if NBA fans have seen a unicorn.

On defense, however, Thompson uses his feet — quickened during Mark Jackson’s tenure as head coach through a “four-on-four drill, in which [Jackson] passed the ball around the perimeter to members of his staff as Thompson and the others shuffled from side to side and worked on their rotations.”

According to the Times, the squad ran this drill “four days a week for about a month.”

 

https://warriorswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/02/how-klay-thompson-became-one-of-the-nbas-best-defenders/4/

Hey Schlenk - tell Pierce to get back to some basics on defense.

[Buzzard]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I came across this article unexpectedly...Klay Thompson and how he developed into the defender he is today.

It piqued my interest because I always thought he came into the NBA as a defender - Not so much. His draft profile used terms like average athlete, lacks great footspeed, 

 

https://warriorswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/02/how-klay-thompson-became-one-of-the-nbas-best-defenders/4/

Hey Schlenk - tell Pierce to get back to some basics on defense.

But if you switch everything no one has to shuffle their feet. Switching is the lazy coach/player defense in my opinion.

[macdaddy]

Maybe i'm wrong but i don't feel like our defenseive scheme is "switch everything" but guys get switched through screens on every team.  That's what nba offenses do.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, Buzzard said:

But if you switch everything no one has to shuffle their feet. Switching is the lazy coach/player defense in my opinion.

The title Warriors run a switching scheme as well the dominate Sixers. Rockets have a tremendous switching scheme. Switching works. Dallas does it all of the time. 

No scheme will work with our current starting personnel. Trae, Kevin and John are too garbage on that end