Let's Talk Draft Picks

[Spud2nique]

4 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I would put Wiseman in there somewhere regardless of fit. To much talent to pass on.

Ya good point. Maybe ahead around 5-7.  He could be a monster for sure. The draft is really tricky to nail. shoot

[Buzzard]

1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

Ya good point. Maybe ahead around 5-7.  He could be a monster for sure. The draft is really tricky to nail. shoot

He could be a monster or he could be our Darko. I don't think he has the bust potential Darko displayed; but there is always a risk.

[kg01]

24 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Ya good point. Maybe ahead around 5-7.  He could be a monster for sure. The draft is really tricky to nail. shoot

For me, the allure of drafting Wiseman only comes from the fact that he'll be able to learn under Capela and dedmon.

[Spud2nique]

16 minutes ago, kg01 said:

For me, the allure of drafting Wiseman only comes from the fact that he'll be able to learn under Capela and dedmon.

I know this is crazy lazy but whenever I see Wiseman work inside I see a young Dwight, which isn’t a bad thing but it’s straight size and not super skill. Then I see the 20 foot jump, gets his feet close like Bosh with a decent touch. 
 

I can’t get a read on him. He is a huge ? to me. If you told me in 5 years he was a superstar I’d believe it and if you told me he’s Thabeet I’d believe that too. 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

@NBASupes How do you like the fit? If he’s KVH, I like the fit with Trae a lot! If he’s Bargnani I don’t. KVH was tougher than people remember. He wasn’t as soft as you think. Where would you take this cat Supes?

He's not KVH, he plays similar to KVH. He's raw af. KVH was polished when he entered the NBA. He's not Bargs. He has a lot of natural talent and skill. Athleticism for his height is good. He's just extremely unpolished. He needs a lot of tutelage. Not everyone can mentally pick the game up like Luka from Europe. 

[Buzzard]

22 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I know this is crazy lazy but whenever I see Wiseman work inside I see a young Dwight, which isn’t a bad thing but it’s straight size and not super skill. Then I see the 20 foot jump, gets his feet close like Bosh with a decent touch. 
 

I can’t get a read on him. He is a huge ? to me. If you told me in 5 years he was a superstar I’d believe it and if you told me he’s Thabeet I’d believe that too. 

There is a huge difference in size. So saying someone who is 7'0" tall with a 7'4" wing span reminds you of Dwight, 6'9" 7'5" wing span, is a pretty good thing. I still worry about his shooting.

Even though he shot .704 from the charity stripe in Memphis ( 3 Games ), he only shot .585 in 10 games of AAU ball from the free throw line. He is a project but the upside is tremendous in my opinion.

https://basketball.realgm.com/player/James-Wiseman/Summary/107990#HighSchool

[NBASupes]

37 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I know this is crazy lazy but whenever I see Wiseman work inside I see a young Dwight, which isn’t a bad thing but it’s straight size and not super skill. Then I see the 20 foot jump, gets his feet close like Bosh with a decent touch. 
 

I can’t get a read on him. He is a huge ? to me. If you told me in 5 years he was a superstar I’d believe it and if you told me he’s Thabeet I’d believe that too. 

My direct comparison when I watched a lot of freshman tape of Ewing and Wiseman is a poor man's Patrick Ewing as a freshman out of Georgetown but with more God-given athleticism. Offensively, they are similar at the same stage. Defensively, Pat was much better, better coached. Just better even at the same stage. Overall, talent wise, they are extremely similar. I placed Wiseman with the top group of tier 4. Talent wise, Edwards, Ball, and Wiseman are all tied. Ball has the edge with three swing skills (potentially) to Edwards and Wiseman's two. Edwards and Ball are just much better as offensive players at this stage than Wiseman is and defensively, Wiseman is ahead of both but just by a half a point. All of them are projected as terrible out of the box defenders but with the potential to vastly improve in time on both ends. 

I am not a fan of Wiseman to be honest but his potential is real. It's very real. The thing between him and Okongwu is does Okongwu have hidden potential that could give him the edge potential long term if placed in the ideal situation and does Wiseman even have an ideal situation or is he like R.J. Barrett where the modern game just doesn't fit him all that well? 

Edited May 20, 2020 by NBASupes

[thecampster]

14 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

My direct comparison when I watched a lot of freshman tape of Ewing and Wiseman is a poor man's Patrick Ewing as a freshman out of Georgetown but with more God-given athleticism. Offensively, they are similar at the same stage. Defensively, Pat was much better, better coached. Just better even at the same stage. Overall, talent wise, they are extremely similar. I placed Wiseman with the top group of tier 4. Talent wise, Edwards, Ball, and Wiseman are all tied. Ball has the edge with three swing skills (potentially) to Edwards and Wiseman's two. Edwards and Ball are just much better as offensive players at this stage than Wiseman is and defensively, Wiseman is ahead of both but just by a half a point. All of them are projected as terrible out of the box defenders but with the potential to vastly improve in time on both ends. 

I am not a fan of Wiseman to be honest but his potential is real. It's very real. The thing between him and Okongwu is does Okongwu have hidden potential that could give him the edge potential long term if placed in the ideal situation and does Wiseman even have an ideal situation or is he like R.J. Barrett where the modern game just doesn't fit him all that well? 

What I see when I see Wiseman.  Watch both videos. You will see a lot of similarities. What we don't know is what is between the ears and work ethic. I would have really liked to see him with 1 or 2 years of college first.  But compare his footwork, taps on the ball on rebounds, use of his height and you will see a lesser polished Robinson.

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by thecampster

[thecampster]

That's his ceiling though when I see him. He has similar athleticism and measurables. Both play with their hands high when rebounding and use their hands to gain control, tap the ball to themselves. They don't give up on a rebound based on positioning alone. They both outlet well, favor posting from left to middle.

[Spud2nique]

54 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Robinson.

David or Mitchell?

[Spud2nique]

Wow, Supes says poor man’s Ewing or early stages of raw Ewing and Camp says David Robinson? 
 

I may have to look at Wiseman some more... don’t even tease me guys. Ewing and the Admiral were no joke.

[NBASupes]

There is just not enough tape or film to get my hands on to see Robinson at Navy while I got a number of games of G'Town during Ewing's rookie year as they were a primetime team. I won't go by highlights either. Ewing offensively lacked the same skill I see from Wiseman who lacks it. I didn't see Robinson's skill in college outside of his USA games and even then, he was a grown man by that point. 

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Wow, Supes says poor man’s Ewing or early stages of raw Ewing and Camp says David Robinson? 
 

I may have to look at Wiseman some more... don’t even tease me guys. Ewing and the Admiral were no joke.

poor man's version of Ewing as a freshman. Not Ewing as a Senior or Ewing lite as a senior. He's a poor man's version of Ewing if he was one and done. Ewing as a freshman was not close to Ewing as a Senior much less Ewing as a NBA rookie. 

 

[Spud2nique]

On my boy Gwu (seriously @hazer can we call him Kong?) a lil throwback comparison to what I think this cat resembles or might in the future. 
 

OG throwback comparison’s by Spud:

Okongwu remind me of:

Physicality:

Laphonso Ellis

Antonio McDyess

Kmart

 

Finesse game reminds me of:

Webber

Juwon Howard

Blake Griffin (a smarter Blake)

 

I dunno, this guy has IT factor. I can look at all the numbers all day and watch clips but so far in this draft, this kid steals my eye 👁 test.

 

 

 

[Spud2nique]

8 hours ago, NBASupes said:

4t. Aaron Nesmith - Low-mid floor with a semi-high ceiling, Nesmith is a far less athletic, bigger, and smarter Terrance Ross. That could appeal to a lot of teams.

Intrigued.

[Spud2nique]

8 hours ago, NBASupes said:

18t. Devin Vassell – a mid-floor, a mid ceiling, His size and lack of bulk is why I am more down on him

Him too!

[NBASupes]

45 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Him too!

Vassell is a wasted pick in my eyes. The last thing we need another SG who can't defend 3s who offensively has limitations. Teams who need 3&D SG's are teams who have a wing who's an exceptional scorer and passer. A perfect fit for Vassell is Dallas. Teams like us, you need to be able to dribble, pass, shoot, and create on a dime as a SG which is most NBA teams. Vassell is limited. If Vassell was 6'8 220 with the same EXACT skill-set, he would be my #1 guy on my draft board. SF's who are 3&Ds are critical and so freaking hard to find. 

Edited May 20, 2020 by NBASupes

[thecampster]

2 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Wow, Supes says poor man’s Ewing or early stages of raw Ewing and Camp says David Robinson? 
 

I may have to look at Wiseman some more... don’t even tease me guys. Ewing and the Admiral were no joke.

So I'm not going to say he's going to be the admiral. I would really like to see him get a full year in college for that, but the size, shape, play style is very David Robinson. The big issue with taking these big men young is you never know how the frame will fill out. Some get more coordinated as they age, some get bulky and more clumsy. Big men are a crap shoot but he's got more Admiral in him than anyone I've seen in a while. I definitely see a bit of Ewing as well but the problem with comparing players from that era is that most of them stayed 3-4 years. That development can't be understated.

[Spud2nique]

Just now, thecampster said:

That development can't be understated.

Ya agreed. The development the clumsy, ya all of it.

[thecampster]

For me its Wiseman because you just don't get that skilled of a big man. Typically you draft size and hope. He has size and skill. Not 100% ready but he's farther along than most bigs. If he fills out and maintains that coordination or improves, he's as impactful as the best players in most years. Still, he's a young big. He'll need 2 years to start to get a feel.