Let's Talk Draft Picks

[kg01]

8 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He could be better than long term but definitely not short term. This is the question A LOT of teams are telling scouts with Okoro. Why are we drafting a 3rd or 4th wing with a top 5 pick and some GMs think his potential isn't as clear cut as the scouts. Some question if his shooting could ever be amicable. Some think it could be a strength long term. His scout is consistent to a degree but inconsistent when it comes to his long term projection  

I am on the high end for Okoro. I think it could be amicable but I am not head over heels either. I don't exactly think his shooting will become Tobias Harris type improved either. 

That's probably where we differ on him as a prospect.  I don't have expectation that his shooting will improve and I don't think he's super athletic so I see a cap on how good he'll be.  Just my opinion.

[macdaddy]

So is Edwards the clear #1 now?  If we can get him i think we have to.   

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, kg01 said:

That's probably where we differ on him as a prospect.  I don't have expectation that his shooting will improve and I don't think he's super athletic so I see a cap on how good he'll be.  Just my opinion.

I clearly think he is a great athlete. More of a strong athlete than a finesse one. When you tried to compare him to Miles B. It made no sense because they are completely different hoopers. Bridges is pure explosiveness. But he's a tweener stuck between the 4 and the 3. Okoro is a straight up 3. That's why even if you or are I think Bridges is a better player out of college, Okoro will likely have more success and to be honest, Okoro is just a more talented wing. 

Miles Bridges is the reason I am kinda scared to draft Haliburton. You can be one of the best players in the class but do you have the needed prerequisites for the position in the NBA. 

[hazer]

15 hours ago, Buzzard said:

We also need some defensive pressure on our bench as well. Avdija, Haliburton, Okoro, Wiseman could all be possible good defensive fits.

So you gonna talk defensive bench prospects and just leave off Okongwa like that?

[NBASupes]

21 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

So is Edwards the clear #1 now?  If we can get him i think we have to.   

To me, yes. Because he is the easy projection like John Wall was for his class. That's honestly who I compare Edwards to impact wise, John Wall. That said, it wouldn't surprise me if these players ended up better

Ball

Toppin

Okoro

 

These could surprise me but not shock me

Haliburton 

Wiseman

Deni Avdija 

Okongwu 

A. Poku 

McDaniels 

Tre Jones

Hayes

Maledon

Cole Anthony 

Maxey

The rest would shock me

Edited May 15, 2020 by NBASupes

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

But all that tells me is Okoro is not a fit due to timing.  You can't draft a guy top5 to be your 3rd or 4th wing.  Or unless they think he'll be better than Hunter, which I don't see.

I would like to think that one of our wings Huerter, Reddish, Hunter is THAT guy - none of them have been 'Trae like' busting out the gate to give me the 100% confidence they'll be that guy - I see glimpse in Cam, but.......So there is still some wiggle room in who will rise and cement themselves.

Good healthy competition - see who separates themselves?

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

I've heard grumblings on the market that says there is an outside chance that he could due to his FA class more than anything. That's what Atlanta is hearing as well. No one is viewing him as a max cat but that doesn't mean he won't get it. Next year FA class is loaded with money but after the top guys, it's still loaded with money. Atlanta has the same fear that I have and there is a reason you been hearing smoke because it's real. John people 100% believe he will and can get the max and their lack of willingness to negotiate is a challenge. 

You can say Buddy Hield had the same mindset as well but he wasn't going into a cash loaded FA market like John was. You noticed how Boston had to pony up for Jaylen Brown when they evaluated him at 4/80-4/85. Atlanta and Memphis told his agent that they would max him out. Buddy didn't even get an outside offer but just the fear that someone could because of a weak FA market regardless of cash on average put the fear of God in them to get that deal done. 

There is a lot of money in 2021. Most teams got a max contract or two. A lot of those 2018 and 2019 FA guys are available as well. John actually could get Bazemored

Someone will pay John Collins, whether it's the Hawks or another team.

Teams had max cap money before 2021, the landscape is changing due to Covid-19. It bears watching.

[kg01]

10 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I would like to think that one of our wings Huerter, Reddish, Hunter is THAT guy - none of them have been 'Trae like' busting out the gate to give me the 100% confidence they'll be that guy - I see glimpse in Cam, but.......So there is still some wiggle room in who will rise and cement themselves.

Good healthy competition - see who separates themselves?

That's true, in theory.  However, I think you could make a pretty strong argument that either Hunter or Reddish would be a potential #1 pick in this draft.  Conversely, you could make an argument that Okoro would be a late 1st rounder if this were a "normal" draft talent-wise.

I don't think adding him is adding to any actual competition.  It's unlikely he'd ever surpass either of them so why bother?  That's my stance.

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, kg01 said:

That's true, in theory.  However, I think you could make a pretty strong argument that either Hunter or Reddish would be a potential #1 pick in this draft.  Conversely, you could make an argument that Okoro would be a late 1st rounder if this were a "normal" draft talent-wise.

I don't think adding him is adding to any actual competition.  It's unlikely he'd ever surpass either of them so why bother?  That's my stance.

No, he would be around this range. I'll also say Hunter would be around this range this year as well if he replicated his performance. Cam's freshman season would only put him in the same range as well. 

Okoro is a lot better than you think he is. He is not KZ Okpala

Edited May 15, 2020 by NBASupes

[macdaddy]

I just look at Edwards and think what his attitude and ability would do for the competition at the wing spots with kev,cam, and hunter.  I think we'd have a couple years of epic highlights.  I don't know if it would translate to wins but i'd like to see it.  

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

I just look at Edwards and think what his attitude and ability would do for the competition at the wing spots with kev,cam, and hunter.  I think we'd have a couple years of epic highlights.  I don't know if it would translate to wins but i'd like to see it.  

The issue I have with Edwards is he's a #1 usage guy along with Trae. Not sure about the fit both short and long term. I think it's one or the other. 

[kg01]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

No, he would be around this range. I'll also say Hunter would be around this range this year as well if he replicated his performance. Cam's freshman season would only put him in the same range as well. 

Okoro is a lot better than you think he is. He is not KZ Okpala

That's the crux of this.  We simply disagree.

On the flip side, sounds like we agree on Edwards.  I have no idea how people think he can fit with Trae.  Other than just looking at his size.  Their games don't fit.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

That's the crux of this.  We simply disagree.

On the flip side, sounds like we agree on Edwards.  I have no idea how people think he can fit with Trae.  Other than just looking at his size.  Their games don't fit.

Cool. Fine with that.

I said the same last year with R.J. Barrett and Trae. 

[TheFuzz]

29 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Someone will pay John Collins, whether it's the Hawks or another team.

Teams had max cap money before 2021, the landscape is changing due to Covid-19. It bears watching.

I think Collins is special offensively. He's a difficult fit, but he may be worth that kind of money if we can put the pieces around him. He's an excellent offensive fit with Trae, too

[AHF]

54 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Someone will pay John Collins, whether it's the Hawks or another team.

Teams had max cap money before 2021, the landscape is changing due to Covid-19. It bears watching.

I think it is almost certain that in some form the diminished revenues for the 2019-20 and 2020-21 seasons will be reflected in the a significantly lower amount of money available for 2021 free agency than is currently projected.

[NBASupes]

9 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think it is almost certain that in some form the diminished revenues for the 2019-20 and 2020-21 seasons will be reflected in the a significantly lower amount of money available for 2021 free agency than is currently projected.

Its extremely difficult to estimate for 2020-2021. Especially if they move the season back to a Christmas start.

Edited May 15, 2020 by NBASupes

[kg01]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Cool. Fine with that.

I said the same last year with R.J. Barrett and Trae. 

Chad Ford had Hollinger on his podcast a few days ago.  On Okoro, comp'd Okoro to Justise Winslow.  Called him a (no)3 and D guy who'll step right in as a plus defender.  Really down on his offense, both ballhandling and shooting/scoring.

Kind of a combination of what you and I say about him.  Maybe spud and I will have you on our podcast to talk draft, if we ever start one.  

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, TheFuzz said:

I think Collins is special offensively. He's a difficult fit, but he may be worth that kind of money if we can put the pieces around him. He's an excellent offensive fit with Trae, too

I don't see special. I do think he is as good on offense as Millsap, Horford and SAR. Even though Sap and Horford contribute a lot more on offense than Collins does, Collins is world class at what he does. The best in the NBA and maybe the best of all time. But at the end of the day, they are all 8.5 on offense. 

SAR is most like Collins as both are a 8.5 on offense and but are below average defenders who don't have a great impact on the game. Although I think Collins is a lot more flexible than SAR due to his style of game. SAR is a #1 option type which is terrible because he's just not good enough for that role. Means he would be best suited off the bench as a 6th man for a winning team. John doesn't have those problems. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by NBASupes

[Buzzard]

3 hours ago, hazer said:

So you gonna talk defensive bench prospects and just leave off Okongwa like that?

It was late. Thats my excuse and I am sticking to it.

[terrell]

5 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Offensive grade going into rookie year:

Toppin 8.5

Edwards 7

Hayes 7.5

Deni 6.5

Offensive grade projection w/o swings

Toppin 9.5

Edwards 10

Hayes 8

Deni 8

Defensive rating going into rookie year

Okungwu 7

Okoro 8.5

Vassel 8

Wiseman 5.5

Def Projections wo swings

Okongwu 8

Okoro 9.5

Vassell 8.5

Wiseman 8

What makes Wiseman interesting is he's a 5.5 on both ends as a rookie which is as impact as your high end G-Leaguer but his potential on offense is a 9 and on defense is a 8. Makes him unique but Okongwu has three swings and and most importantly his fit rating is naturally high for most teams, but for teams like GS his fit rating is exceptional. Chances are, like Toppin, he could be a system star. 

Not really high on Vassell. He has a 2nd round grade. I mark him completely as a SG who can defend 1s as well. I strongly feel his offense is too limited to be more than a role player like Danny Green at that position.

Vassell would be extremely high for me if he had this exact skill-set and was 220-225 but his body type, he looks like he will top out at 205. That's a 2 in this league and offense weighs much heavier for guards over defense. See Trae and Edwards. Trae right now is a 9 with a 10 on offense and a 6 on defense but Edwards 10 is not as valuable as Trae's because of the position. 

Yeah Im only looking at Vassel if we trade down to around pick 10-15 and pick up a 1st or something. lol. hes a fringe lottery pick imo..Vassel, Bey, Maxey, etc......

Edited May 15, 2020 by terrell