Let's Talk Draft Picks

[Buzzard]

45 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Some notes from Chad Ford's big board.... TIFWIW, just fodder for discussion ... claims this is based on what teams have been saying, not his own assessment:

- Ball is top prospect due to elite passing ability.  Edwards second due to athleticism - higher risk due to lack of feel for game.

- Had Devin Vassell at 4, iirc.  Interesting.

- Rest of top 8 or so all the usuals, Wiseman, Okongwu, Haliburton, etc.

- Ranks Patrick Williams higher than most I've seen.

- Ranks Nesmith in his top 10

- Rates Kira Lewis over Cole Anthony, who's actually older than Lewis.  Both more scorers than pg's.

- Ranks Deni outside of top 14, poor shooting is red flag.  Expected to play a role, not be a star.  Saric has "done more" at this point than Deni.  Many teams feel he's overhyped.

- Ranks Paul Reed 16, admitted some teams don't have him in 1st round.

I think Ball is the blue chip trade prospect that could net us, or someone, a top 5 or top 3 protected pick the following year. I have thought that for months now. I like Wiseman and Edwards. I see Haliburton as the #4 prospect and there is not a lot of separation between him and Ball. I don't think Avdija is all that but I have been wrong before.

Once we get past my top 4, Edwards, Wiseman, Ball, Haliburton, the bigs are a crap shoot.

Some can shoot and some can't ( FT% ),

Some can defend and some can't.

Some have a decent post game and some don't.

Some are athletic and some are not.

If we don't get a top 4 pick, I really want to trade down and take a lesser hyped prospect. They said this was a weak class. The hype buildup just because we are getting closer to the draft is not changing my mind.

[kg01]

51 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I think Ball is the blue chip trade prospect that could net us, or someone, a top 5 or top 3 protected pick the following year. I have thought that for months now. I like Wiseman and Edwards. I see Haliburton as the #4 prospect and there is not a lot of separation between him and Ball. I don't think Avdija is all that but I have been wrong before.

Once we get past my top 4, Edwards, Wiseman, Ball, Haliburton, the bigs are a crap shoot.

Some can shoot and some can't ( FT% ),

Some can defend and some can't.

Some have a decent post game and some don't.

Some are athletic and some are not.

If we don't get a top 4 pick, I really want to trade down and take a lesser hyped prospect. They said this was a weak class. The hype buildup just because we are getting closer to the draft is not changing my mind.

Agree on Ball.  Agree on trading down.

Agree on the bigs but, due to what we need, I'd put Okongwu on top of that group.

I think Deni will disappoint if picked in lotto.  Expecting a solid role guy.  Getting overhyped due to Looka-itis.

Also forgot to mention, Ford had Hayes 3rd iirc, which seems a little higher considering everyone acknowledges he's extremely one-handed as a dribbler.  Like he literally can't dribble with his off hand.

[NBASupes]

delete

Edited May 26, 2020 by NBASupes

[Spud2nique]

4 hours ago, kg01 said:

Some notes from Chad Ford's big board.... TIFWIW, just fodder for discussion ... claims this is based on what teams have been saying, not his own assessment:

- Ball is top prospect due to elite passing ability.  Edwards second due to athleticism - higher risk due to lack of feel for game.

- Had Devin Vassell at 4, iirc.  Interesting.

- Rest of top 8 or so all the usuals, Wiseman, Okongwu, Haliburton, etc.

- Ranks Patrick Williams higher than most I've seen.

- Ranks Nesmith in his top 10

- Rates Kira Lewis over Cole Anthony, who's actually older than Lewis.  Both more scorers than pg's.

- Ranks Deni outside of top 14, poor shooting is red flag.  Expected to play a role, not be a star.  Saric has "done more" at this point than Deni.  Many teams feel he's overhyped.

- Ranks Paul Reed 16, admitted some teams don't have him in 1st round.

what the hell. Has Chad Ford been readin my $hit!  

I have Vassell, Patrick Williams and Paul Reed higher than most.

Wait, do we like or hate Ford? I get confused these days. Lol.

[Spud2nique]

3 hours ago, Buzzard said:

I think Ball is the blue chip trade prospect that could net us, or someone, a top 5 or top 3 protected pick the following year. I have thought that for months now. I like Wiseman and Edwards. I see Haliburton as the #4 prospect and there is not a lot of separation between him and Ball. I don't think Avdija is all that but I have been wrong before.

Once we get past my top 4, Edwards, Wiseman, Ball, Haliburton, the bigs are a crap shoot.

Some can shoot and some can't ( FT% ),

Some can defend and some can't.

Some have a decent post game and some don't.

Some are athletic and some are not.

If we don't get a top 4 pick, I really want to trade down and take a lesser hyped prospect. They said this was a weak class. The hype buildup just because we are getting closer to the draft is not changing my mind.

This seems accurate to me except you are higher on Wiseman. I tried seeing the Admiral but can only see a bit. I could be wrong but I’m not sold.

I’m heating up more on Haliburton. Still wouldn’t select him top 5 and I think there is a bit of separation between he and Ball but as you mentioned not as much as media hype. I would take Haliburton if he’s BPA at 6 and beyond though. Possibly the 6th pick through 10, somebody always slips  i.e. Paulette Piece or Nash type. Speaking of Nash I saw a highlight of Haliburton with a very nice underhand instinctive pass to a guy under the hoop, really good feel and he’s a guard I would feel very comfortable with handling with or when Trae is out.

[mrhonline]

I actually really enjoy listening to Ford's podcast, but I'm still angry at his re-draft with Trae at #6.

[Spud2nique]

8 minutes ago, mrhonline said:

I actually really enjoy listening to Ford's podcast, but I'm still angry at his re-draft with Trae at #6.

He redrafted Trae at 6??? Ok I was going to ask more about his podcast but I’ve heard enough. 

[mrhonline]

"Not a generational talent," he said.  And then opted for MPJ and Ayton instead.

Honestly, it was a pretty blatant attempt to bait people into listening.

[Buzzard]

3 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

This seems accurate to me except you are higher on Wiseman. I tried seeing the Admiral but can only see a bit. I could be wrong but I’m not sold.

I’m heating up more on Haliburton. Still wouldn’t select him top 5 and I think there is a bit of separation between he and Ball but as you mentioned not as much as media hype. I would take Haliburton if he’s BPA at 6 and beyond though. Possibly the 6th pick through 10, somebody always slips  i.e. Paulette Piece or Nash type. Speaking of Nash I saw a highlight of Haliburton with a very nice underhand instinctive pass to a guy under the hoop, really good feel and he’s a guard I would feel very comfortable with handling with or when Trae is out.

For me, I think Haliburton is at least going to be starting level player out of this weak class. Players that can really play both guard positions are hard to find. I would say they are just as hard to find as a 3rd tier All Star level wing.

Its just very rare for a player to have the height and skill set to do both.

Wiseman is all prospect and upside. And even though he did not play a lot of games in college, he did not flinch once he started. I think he would have had a monster year if he would have played the season out.

[terrell]

7 hours ago, kg01 said:

Agree on Ball.  Agree on trading down.

Agree on the bigs but, due to what we need, I'd put Okongwu on top of that group.

I think Deni will disappoint if picked in lotto.  Expecting a solid role guy.  Getting overhyped due to Looka-itis.

Also forgot to mention, Ford had Hayes 3rd iirc, which seems a little higher considering everyone acknowledges he's extremely one-handed as a dribbler.  Like he literally can't dribble with his off hand.

I keep seeing  "Solid role guy". 90% of NBA players are role guys..lol..I doubt we find another "star" in this draft...THat would be nice, but a role player is more likely..

Edited May 27, 2020 by terrell

[JayBirdHawk]

8 hours ago, terrell said:

I keep seeing  "Solid role guy". 90% of NBA players are role guys..lol..I doubt we find another "star" in this draft...THat would be nice, but a role player is more likely..

All role players aren't created equal though.  You can have high end role players that are starters vs bench role players. Role players that are specialists, etc.

[AHF]

15 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

what the hell. Has Chad Ford been readin my $hit!  

I have Vassell, Patrick Williams and Paul Reed higher than most.

Wait, do we like or hate Ford? I get confused these days. Lol.

Did Ford step away after getting caught changing things after the fact?

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/1/25/7886991/chad-ford-nba-draft-espn-rankings-change

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

Did Ford step away after getting caught changing things after the fact?

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/1/25/7886991/chad-ford-nba-draft-espn-rankings-change

It appears that Ford's rankings have now all reverted to their original draft day forms. We've reached out to Ford for an explanation. This post will be updated when, and if, we get one. In the meantime, ESPN released a statement and said it has been unable to determine who made the changes, but Ford denies doing so.

[AHF]

6 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

It appears that Ford's rankings have now all reverted to their original draft day forms. We've reached out to Ford for an explanation. This post will be updated when, and if, we get one. In the meantime, ESPN released a statement and said it has been unable to determine who made the changes, but Ford denies doing so.

Someone was definitely doing it on purpose.  Was curious if he stepped away to quietly let this die.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

I’ll preface this piece by saying I think LaMelo Ball is the best prospect in the NBA Draft, but he doesn’t make much sense for the Hawks because the overlap with Trae Young is significant. Both are on-ball guards who have a penchant for deep 3-pointers, and they have roughly the same defensive question marks in terms of energy and effort.

Quote

Anthony Edwards, G, Georgia

The Hawks need a secondary playmaker who can play alongside Young and without him. Edwards is the best option who fills that need...

Having someone like Edwards on the floor with Young could further unlock Young’s game. We haven’t seen much of what Young would look like in long spurts moving off the ball, but we do know he’s a deadly shooter on catch-and-shoot attempts. 

Kevin Huerter is an underrated facilitator, but he isn’t the same level of threat running the offense while Young runs around as Edwards would be mainly because Huerter hasn’t proved he can drive to the basket and finish at above-average marks. That’s where Edwards could shine because he’s aggressive and explosive when taking the ball to the rim and can be a very good finisher, which is something the Hawks are lacking from their guards (other than Young) and wings.

Defensively, Edwards has the potential to be a difference-maker because of his frame, long arms and quick feet — he just has to apply himself consistently on that end

Quote

Deni Avdija, F, Maccabi Tel Aviv

What the Hawks are missing in their young forwards is someone who can be a high-level playmaker. Avdija can be that kind of player in the NBA and would fit nicely with what the Hawks have in De’Andre Hunter and Cam Reddish.

Throughout the pre-draft process, we heard a lot about Reddish’s ability to pass the ball — I even talked with some people who thought he could play point guard. Those playmaking skills weren’t on display, at least in the first year. Hunter is not much of a threat as a ballhandler right now, but the Hawks are hoping he can grow into one.

In the Hawks’ heavy pick-and-roll and transition offense, Avdija would thrive as a facilitator.

Shooting is an issue...

Quote

Onyeka Okongwu, F/C, USC

With the Hawks trading for Clint Capela at the trade deadline, Okongwu’s value is dinged a little for me. If they hadn’t already used a first-round pick to trade for Capela, who’s under contract until 2023, I probably would have Okongwu at No.1. He’s that good and would fit in nicely with the Hawks.

A frontcourt of Okongwu and Collins would be highly intriguing, as both players can switch defensively and crash the boards with vigor. I believe Okongwu has the potential to be a good shooter one day, too, and having another stretch four/five on the roster would be a plus.

Bigs aren’t as valuable as wings or guards in the first few picks of the draft unless they have the star potential of a Joel Embiid or Karl-Anthony Towns...

Quote

Killian Hayes, G, Ulm

Again, the minutes Young sat this season were disastrous — so much so that general manager Travis Schlenk acquired Jeff Teague from Minnesota to try to stop the bleeding. Toward the end of the season, the non-Young minutes were better, but for this team to be strongly competitive, it needs those minutes he sits to be much better than what they were.

I wouldn’t draft a pure point guard like Ball or Cole Anthony in the top eight unless I intended to flip that player for someone else. Hayes could be a lead guard in the NBA, but he has the size and ability to defend one through three in the league.

I’d have him ranked higher than Tyrese Haliburton because his playmaking ability is quite exceptional...

Quote

Devin Vassell, F, Florida State

Vassell is one of the best defenders in this draft. He’s not as good as Isaac Okoro, who we’ll discuss next, but Vassell is an ideal 3-and-D wing the Hawks could use even though they drafted two of those last year in Hunter and Reddish.

Vassell shot 41.7 percent from 3 this season at FSU, and his steals, blocks and rebound rates were all above average. Vassell is good enough right now that he could be plugged into the starting two-spot next to Young

Quote

Isaac Okoro, F, Auburn

The Hawks need more defensive talent. For the past two seasons, Atlanta has been one of the worst defensive teams in the league. Okoro would improve this team defensively immediately, in my opinion.

I think Okoro is the best defender in the draft, and he has the ability to guard two through four and the five in small-ball lineups. What I like about Okoro and his fit with the Hawks is he’s a very smart passer who has some ability to run pick-and-roll if needed.

His shooting ability is a massive concern right now. 

Quote

Tyrese Haliburton, G, Iowa State

The biggest difference between Haliburton and Hayes when talking about how they would project with the Hawks is Haliburton’s ability to shoot, specifically off the catch. He made nearly 42 percent of his 3s this season, but because of his current shot form, he projects as more of a spot-up shooter in the NBA. The more high-level shooters on the floor with Young, the better this team can be.

And for the reasons Hayes would be a good pick for the Hawks, Haliburton has the length to guard multiple positions and can lead the non-Young minutes and provide stability for those 15ish minutes that Young is resting.

 

[Spud2nique]

9 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

I’ll preface this piece by saying I think LaMelo Ball is the best prospect in the NBA Draft, but he doesn’t make much sense for the Hawks because the overlap with Trae Young is significant. Both are on-ball guards who have a penchant for deep 3-pointers, and they have roughly the same defensive question marks in terms of energy and effort.

 

Supes gonna on this. No Toppin  

[JayBirdHawk]

14 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Supes gonna on this. No Toppin  

been awhile for this one.

[Spud2nique]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

been awhile for this one.

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/ef1f43d1-aa1c-4168-9c28-145c2e4901bf

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[Peoriabird]

33 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

I’ll preface this piece by saying I think LaMelo Ball is the best prospect in the NBA Draft, but he doesn’t make much sense for the Hawks because the overlap with Trae Young is significant. Both are on-ball guards who have a penchant for deep 3-pointers, and they have roughly the same defensive question marks in terms of energy and effort.

 

Sounds like this guy doesn't think much of Reddish as a guard or as a secondary playmaker.  If we draft Edwards or other guards, there will be a log jam at Guard going forward.