Benefits of bringing Horford back to ATL (long thread)

[marco102]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

Would Marc want to leave a starting situation on a contender where he just recently won a title to come off the bench in Atlanta? As I said, realistically, there are only so many moves we can make

Don't know, but the chances of him leaving are greater than the chances of the Hawks trading for Al Horford in my opinion. 

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Don't know, but the chances of him leaving are greater than the chances of the Hawks trading for Al Horford in my opinion. 

Which is where we disagree. I think there is a strong chance we can see Horford in Atlanta. Why? Because it makes sense considering what we lack, our current goals, and his fit for us. Not to mention, his contract comes attached with a nice asset. 

While there is no chance Gasol is coming to Atlanta from Toronto which you already know that. This is your way of saying Al has zero chance of coming to Atlanta in your opinion. Unlike you, I have an exceptionally high view of Al and if you don't, I understand for whatever reason, just know I don't agree with them.

 

This doesn't mean I think it's highly likely. Just based on our economics and what's available, he becomes a quality option. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by NBASupes

[marco102]

9 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Which is where we disagree. I think there is a strong chance we can see Horford in Atlanta. Why? Because it makes sense considering what we lack, our current goals, and his fit for us. Not to mention, his contract comes attached with a nice asset. 

While there is no chance Gasol is coming to Atlanta from Toronto which you already know that. This is your way of saying Al has zero chance of coming to Atlanta in your opinion. Unlike you, I have an exceptionally high view of Al and if you don't, I understand for whatever reason, just know I don't agree with them.

No, this is you saying Gasol has a zero chance of leaving.  

The only thing I truely care about in all these scenarios is not bringing Al Horford's contract here.  Again, if Horford's contract was in the $15 - $20 million range for the next three years, I'd be all for it.  He does bring some value, but not the value of his contract. 

 If you didn't like Horford so much, you'd be much more reasonable about it. I'm not coming from emotional standpoint either.  I'm looking at the facts. That's too much to pay a backup center in ANY scenario to contend for a championship, which I hope the Hawks are doing in three years.

Edited August 17, 2020 by marco102

[NBASupes]

10 minutes ago, marco102 said:

No, this is you saying Gasol has a zero chance of leaving.  

The only thing I truely care about in all these scenarios is not bring Al Horford's contract here.  Again, If Horford's contract was in the $15 - $18 million range for the next three years, I'd be all for it.  He does bring some value, but not the value of his contract. 

 If you didn't like Horford so much, you'd be much more reasonable about it. I'm not coming from emotional standpoint either.  I'm looking at the facts. That's too much to pay a backup center in ANY scenario to contend for a championship, which I hope the Hawks are doing in three years.

Which Gasol has no chance of coming to Atlanta. Why? Its obvious why. 

1. He's in a starting role 

2. On a contender in a leadership role

3. On a team where he's used great 

If Al's contract was in that range, he would still be in Boston and he wouldn't be on the market at all as his current market rate is 18 million at this stage. Common sense should prevail on this site sometimes. 

I like Horford so much because what he does for your team in terms of winning and making everyone around him better. It's not like I like to like him. I don't like anyone to like them. I don't think LeBron is the best because he's 6'9 or I would think all 6'9 basketball players is the best. I like him because he's better than any other player I've seen. 

I don't like Magic Johnson as the best PG because he has a nice smile, its because he's the best PG I've ever seen. Come on man, you ask me to be reasonable, make reasonable points.

Honestly, the only part I agree with is the part where you said 28 million is too much for a backup center. That I agree with but Al Horford is another starter. He's not a backup center impact wise. Considering our youth, our contracts status, what's available on the market via trade or FA, the value he brings, our goals, and our system. I see Al as a potential option for us to take. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by NBASupes

[RedDawg#8]

3 hours ago, marco102 said:

No, this is you saying Gasol has a zero chance of leaving.  

The only thing I truely care about in all these scenarios is not bringing Al Horford's contract here.  Again, if Horford's contract was in the $15 - $20 million range for the next three years, I'd be all for it.  He does bring some value, but not the value of his contract. 

 If you didn't like Horford so much, you'd be much more reasonable about it. I'm not coming from emotional standpoint either.  I'm looking at the facts. That's too much to pay a backup center in ANY scenario to contend for a championship, which I hope the Hawks are doing in three years.

Agreed 100%
Our capologist can only make so much work. The only reason Philly would be willing to trade such a "valuable piece" is because that contract is toxic. Period.

Ask yourself this. If he is such a missing piece, what happened in both Boston and Philly? He did not get either team over the hump and they are both much further along than we are. He is great for culture, but he is not as big of a difference maker (in terms of making a team a title contender) as he is being described here. 
 

Not worth the price of admission. If Philly is willing to make him available, its for the wrong reasons. Lets not be the suckers that bite searching for gold.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Agreed 100%
Our capologist can only make so much work. The only reason Philly would be willing to trade such a "valuable piece" is because that contract is toxic. Period.

Ask yourself this. If he is such a missing piece, what happened in both Boston and Philly? He did not get either team over the hump and they are both much further along than we are. He is great for culture, but he is not as big of a difference maker (in terms of making a team a title contender) as he is being described here. 
 

Not worth the price of admission. If Philly is willing to make him available, its for the wrong reasons. Lets not be the suckers that bite searching for gold.

Boston went to two ECFs with him as their best f***ing player and wanted to keep him but Philly offered him 27 million. That's what happened in Boston. Al's been productive in Philly especially of late. He has been their best player in the bubble since Embiid hasn't been himself and Ben's been hurt over Harris and Richardson. The hump for them is a f***ing NBA championship, we are just trying to have a winning team and make the playoffs. Our goals aren't the same and our cap and roster construction isn't either. 

Our capologist can easily make this work financially. Please speak for yourself if you don't want this to work. 

I'll take him. He's worth the price of admission to me and I think he will be massive for us as well. Underrated move for us if we got him and a 2020 1st. 

[nathan2331]

12 hours ago, NBASupes said:

24-28 mpg. 

Way too much money for someone playing those minutes. Honestly the more I think about it, the less sense it makes. You might be right that the Hawks will have a hard time bringing in the players we need in FA but the solution is not to trade for a diminishing player. Horford just ain't that great anymore.

Dedmon backing up Capela has us secure at C. Hopefully Dedmon's elbow issues clear up and his shooting improves. Even if it doesn't he's still solid enough as a backup. We've got Collins who will play some minutes at center out of necessity and we've got Bruno and Skal who both have potential anyways.

The assets that Philly could attach to Horford could not make it worthwhile. Like if we had no alternative, then sure it'd be a good idea. But I'd like to think this franchise can bring some quality players between FA or trade in the two off-seasons we'll have cap space. If we really can't, we've got a bigger problem.

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

Way too much money for someone playing those minutes. Honestly the more I think about it, the less sense it makes. You might be right that the Hawks will have a hard time bringing in the players we need in FA but the solution is not to trade for a diminishing player. Horford just ain't that great anymore.

Dedmon backing up Capela has us secure at C. Hopefully Dedmon's elbow issues clear up and his shooting improves. Even if it doesn't he's still solid enough as a backup. We've got Collins who will play some minutes at center out of necessity and we've got Bruno and Skal who both have potential anyways.

The assets that Philly could attach to Horford could not make it worthwhile. Like if we had no alternative, then sure it'd be a good idea. But I'd like to think this franchise can bring some quality players between FA or trade in the two off-seasons we'll have cap space. If we really can't, we've got a bigger problem.

I would agree with you on that. It is way too much money for those minutes no matter who it is. I disagree with Horford not being great anymore. He still has great impact maybe he isn't a 32-34 player anymore but that's the case with a lot of players his age and level. Most like Sap and Gasol are playing 24-26 mpg. He's playing 30-31 right now. 

LOL, I like Dedmon and he's a good backup center. Overpaid clearly but a good backup center but Dedmon ain't an impact player in the slightness. Outside of Trae Young, the only one close is JC and his impact has dwindled since teams schemed our PnR with him and Trae and limited it to some degree for us. If we want to make the playoffs, Kevin/or/Hunter/or/Cam and a bunch of guys won't cut it. AT ALL! 

I disagree. I think adding a 1st is worthwhile, especially as we can use it to move up to get our targeted PG. If we had better alternatives, I agree, we should take those instead of Horford/1st 2020 pick but what I am telling is, our options aren't that enamoring. 

TS and LP really don't have two seasons. They only have this one and if this goes well next season to know if they will continue to along for the journey. They need to be smart this year. TS has the cap space and even by adding Horford, we still have a tremendous amount of flexibility heading into 2021 barring another global pandemic. 

[nathan2331]

10 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I would agree with you on that. It is way too much money for those minutes no matter who it is. I disagree with Horford not being great anymore. He still has great impact maybe he isn't a 32-34 player anymore but that's the case with a lot of players his age and level. Most like Sap and Gasol are playing 24-26 mpg. He's playing 30-31 right now. 

LOL, I like Dedmon and he's a good backup center. Overpaid clearly but a good backup center but Dedmon ain't an impact player in the slightness. Outside of Trae Young, the only one close is JC and his impact has dwindled since teams schemed our PnR with him and Trae and limited it to some degree for us. If we want to make the playoffs, Kevin/or/Hunter/or/Cam and a bunch of guys won't cut it. AT ALL! 

I disagree. I think adding a 1st is worthwhile, especially as we can use it to move up to get our targeted PG. If we had better alternatives, I agree, we should take those instead of Horford/1st 2020 pick but what I am telling is, our options aren't that enamoring. 

TS and LP really don't have two seasons. They only have this one and if this goes well next season to know if they will continue to along for the journey. They need to be smart this year. TS has the cap space and even by adding Horford, we still have a tremendous amount of flexibility heading into 2021 barring another global pandemic. 

Is it really looking that bad for us in free agency? I know the minutes we are able to offer makes things difficult, but we still got money other teams don't. Plus if economics forces teams to make some moves, we could make a trade or two to bring someone else in.

I just feel like we don't need much to become a playoff team if that's our goal. If everyone's healthy, all we need is a better bench and  growth from our core players. What I want to see is us win a round at least, and while Horford helps us do that, I think there are better ways to spend that money on the rest of the roster to make us competitive.

And Schlenk's job is safe, his drafting ability will keep him employed in Atlanta. Pierce might be on the hot seat, but he doesn't control the roster, so he's going to have to make it work no matter who we end up adding.

[JayBirdHawk]

2 hours ago, nathan2331 said:

Is it really looking that bad for us in free agency? I know the minutes we are able to offer makes things difficult, but we still got money other teams don't. Plus if economics forces teams to make some moves, we could make a trade or two to bring someone else in.

I just feel like we don't need much to become a playoff team if that's our goal. If everyone's healthy, all we need is a better bench and  growth from our core players. What I want to see is us win a round at least, and while Horford helps us do that, I think there are better ways to spend that money on the rest of the roster to make us competitive.

And Schlenk's job is safe, his drafting ability will keep him employed in Atlanta. Pierce might be on the hot seat, but he doesn't control the roster, so he's going to have to make it work no matter who we end up adding.

We always knew the FA class was weak(er) especially when compared to 2021, add in COVID issues regarding a reduction in salary cap, players that were expected to opt out and become FAs are more likely to opt in, so that further diminishes the class.

However, as I've said before - look to teams that might look to move contracts due to Financial CV19 issues, teams looking to avoid luxury tax, teams looking to clear capspace for 2021, teams not wanting to increase their payroll or teams looking to sell 1st round picks...there will be deals to be had. 

We are in the ideal position with our capspace to make moves for next season while keeping financial flexibility for next season.

 

[NBASupes]

3 hours ago, nathan2331 said:

Is it really looking that bad for us in free agency? I know the minutes we are able to offer makes things difficult, but we still got money other teams don't. Plus if economics forces teams to make some moves, we could make a trade or two to bring someone else in.

I just feel like we don't need much to become a playoff team if that's our goal. If everyone's healthy, all we need is a better bench and  growth from our core players. What I want to see is us win a round at least, and while Horford helps us do that, I think there are better ways to spend that money on the rest of the roster to make us competitive.

And Schlenk's job is safe, his drafting ability will keep him employed in Atlanta. Pierce might be on the hot seat, but he doesn't control the roster, so he's going to have to make it work no matter who we end up adding.

Yes, the FA class is weaker than the draft class this year which is odd but it is. There are some quality pieces out there but almost all of them are locked into returning or going into situations where they can be considered part of their future and core. That's something Atlanta and TS is pushing to player agents but I am hearing agents aren't biting. Atlanta has a good reputation in how they treat people but our issue is we are too invested in young players who others in the league believe can be good players. Another issue is where we are weak, we got Trae and JC starting. We are weak on the wings too and we have realistic rotation mins available but the issue there is, this is the weakest part of both FA/draft in 2020. Guys like Bazemore are littered and guys like Joe Harris are not and are coveted. I hate to say this, but I feel like Charlotte has a blighter path to getting FAs this year and even worse, the Knicks are expected to be a superteam to get FAs this summer due to their cap and only having 2 players (3 including the draft) they will consider their core pieces. 

Sucks but this is why team building is NOTHING like NBA2k. Money is great to have but our issue isn't money, we can overspend and sign non-impact players to big deals but does that help us get closer to our goal or does that just New York Knick us as they learned last year. You got to sign impact players. Dallas taught us that, NYK taught us what not to do. Signing Bobby Portis, Taj Gibson, Randle, and others was a terrible Basketball move. The only good BBALL move NYK made was stealing Marcus Morris from SAS to sign him. That was a impact signing, he didn't provide high impact but he provided impact. Something the others couldn't do. 

Even with the cap possibility going down from 115 to 109, we are talking about 6 teams that could be over the LT and for sure 5 who will (GS, PHI, BOS, BRK, HOU). Of those teams, Houston are just barely over the LT. They will get clever as usual to wiggle their way out of it. GS will be obviously over and they know it. I was told, no one of key importance is available. PHI - Horford and Scott, Boston - Kanter, Brooklyn - Prince. So these are the potential causalities. Which one appeals to you? For me, Scott is slightly overpaid and I am not sure he would add value to this squad. Kanter is an obvious no, not for a squad with Kev, JC, and Trae. Prince, do you want him back at that new contract where's he's overpaid and we know his impact is merely average? Horford is the only high impact guy on the list but he's also insanely overpaid for his age as well. We or anyone who trades for him will need a major sweetener. 

LOL, I disagree. This ain't no playoff team, healthy or not. We don't know how to win. Capela will help but his fit with JC is a concern. I am sky high that Cam will produce and maybe be a good player like Michael Porter Jr. but I doubt he will be a key impact next year. MPJ doesn't have much impact on wins and losses yet for DEN. I am more sure that Hunter will be more of an impact and I am pretty sure Kevin won't be much of an impact as usual. This looks and feels like a starting lineup of a 40 win team. The bench looks like a 20 win team bench with the only blight side being Kevin or Cam. Obviously, it's a lot easier to add decent bench pieces than starting pieces but if Atlanta does match their starting quality this year, they could be in some serious trouble. 

Look at our comp: 

Toronto/Philly/Brooklyn/Boston/MIL/MIA/IND should all be over .500 next year. 

That means here is us: 

ORL/CHI/WAS/CHA/Us/CLE/NY

Clearly done before they start: DET

ORL - starting worth 44 wins as a squad. Without Isaac 42 wins. That's .500 play. They have the strongest bench of all teams not projected to go over .500 and would be projected to go over .500 if they had JI for next year. 

CHI - They are worth 36 wins right now. They are on the same level as us. 35 win starting lineup with a 30 win bench. Like us, they have pieces off the bench they love like Coby White who they are expecting a jump from. The difference between us and them is with can add a lot more, they really are limited outside of the draft and trades. 

WAS - This is the team I am most high on. Projections see them as a 35 win team but I see them at 40 wins. I believe Wall will help them tremendously and their depth will make more sense with Ish/Bertrans and others. Them landing a player like OO or Wiseman could help them considering their style of play. This is the team that has the talent. Their bench players are growing too. Wagner, Bonga, and Robinson are on their way to being rotational. 

CHA - I am not high on this team. I think this is team will regress and they did in the 2nd half as their style stop catching people off guard. They have some players who can be good starters but their bench just isn't impactful enough. Adding someone like Baynes could help them. Projections see them as a 24 win team. I do too. 

CLE - I am higher on CHA as a fit but projections like CLE talent a lot more, just not their bench as of yet. 25 win team but they land Toppin, you just never know. this could be a better team than people think. 

NY- This off-season like ours is largely based on what they are going to do. They have a lot of money and only three core pieces. They will be wanted and active. Projections see them as a 21 win team right now but like Atlanta, they have options to improve. 

I remember CHI fans being like we are so close. Just last year around this time, SAC felt they had next after several key signings. A year later, they are looking like they are going to be the 2nd worst team in the West behind MIN who's projected at 39 wins. 3 more wins than us. LOL, the worst West team is projected to have three more wins than us and when you look at MIN, they are better than us too. 

We need players who have quality impact. We got a lot of talent, we don't have a lot of impact players. We really don't have any high impact players at all outside of Trae and he's a flawed high impact player as he's an elite positive in one section and one of the worst in the other. We need better players, vets in particular who can make the youngins better and not just put of numbers. 

[JayBirdHawk]

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Yes, the FA class is weaker than the draft class this year which is odd but it is. There are some quality pieces out there but almost all of them are locked into returning or going into situations where they can be considered part of their future and core. That's something Atlanta and TS is pushing to player agents but I am hearing agents aren't biting. Atlanta has a good reputation in how they treat people but our issue is we are too invested in young players who others in the league believe can be good players. Another issue is where we are weak, we got Trae and JC starting. We are weak on the wings too and we have realistic rotation mins available but the issue there is, this is the weakest part of both FA/draft in 2020. Guys like Bazemore are littered and guys like Joe Harris are not and are coveted. I hate to say this, but I feel like Charlotte has a blighter path to getting FAs this year and even worse, the Knicks are expected to be a superteam to get FAs this summer due to their cap and only having 2 players (3 including the draft) they will consider their core pieces. 

I appreciate your behind the scenes incites, but things change as they always do. We have 2 months until Draft and FAcy as well as the playoffs. Playoff results also factor into what teams may or may not do. It's OK for agents to say 'our guy is resigning with his team' until said team decides we don't want to pay. So I'm not holding fast to anything at the moment.

Just like the trade deadline - no Squawker saw the Capela/Teague 4 team trade and definitely not the Dedmon trade. There is nothing static about FAcy regardless of the whispers when it comes to money, particularly with 2 months to go.

So I wouldn't make that the end all, be all in proposing trade ideas for the Hawks.

[RedDawg#8]

12 hours ago, NBASupes said:

The hump for them is a f***ing NBA championship, we are just trying to have a winning team and make the playoffs. Our goals aren't the same and our cap and roster construction isn't either. 

No, this is where I disagree. The next step is Playoffs but our goal is to win a championship too.

If all we wanted to do was make the playoffs then Schlenk could have saved a lot of time and effort and kept the old core and Bud in place. 

The entire purpose of this rebuild was to strike gold in the draft on a superstar talent *check. Clear the books to be able to cash in and surround him with top tier FA's and then finally compete for Championships.

Playoffs is all Al Horford has ever achieved, whether it was us or anywhere else. But he is also soft and thats why his teams fold in the playoffs, because he isnt the big man at heart that he is on paper.

He is the perfect modern day 5 who still wants to prove he can play the 4. 

For HALF the price, he has value. But for the cost of that deal he is simply not worth it after we have just brought in Capella and JC will likely be a small ball 5 (hate it or love it our best lineup had him at the 5). I too believe we need vet leadership, but roster construction matters. Ask Philly about that, that's the real reason they are in trouble. They paid Al to be a starter and realized very soon that it simply could  not work for them.

Fact is, vet leadership off the bench doesn't cost 27 mil a year on a contender.

Find me any example where that was the case in the past.

Point is, our aspirations are much bigger than just making back to the playoffs, and there is no garuntee Al would single handedly do that for us, or that we wouldn't do it on our own anyway.

Lets wait and see what impact Capela could potentially make before we assume we need another big man with playoff experience, BBIQ and leadership. It might already be here for half the price and age.

Agree to Disagree on this one. 

 

[JTB]

19 hours ago, marco102 said:

Why not Milsap? 

Why does not bringing on a terrible contract make you think Schlenk's going down the wrong path? It seems he can find a just as effective player for cheaper somehow and younger.  I don't know who that is, but I'm against Al Horford and that contract. It stops you from doing so many other moves. 

I'm 100% against this and deep down you probably are too, but we need to discuss something.

You’re more optimistic than me simple as that. I think it’s more important assuring we get in the playoffs. I think we have possible stars on the roster in Trae, Cam, Collins...it’s not a bad contract to take on for us (horford contract) because I don’t see Schlenk bringing in quality vets to help this team.

im not against Sap coming back! That would be great! Bring ya old ass on down but sap has better options with staying in Denver! I can see sap opting to stay in Denver for cheap rather than helping us .

horford wouldn’t choose Atlanta but if we go get him then he has no choice.

deep down I fear Schlenk striking out in this free agency and putting so much faith in next years free agency. This will result into two more losing non playoff seasons if we do not get anything done this off season in my opinion which ultimately will upset trae and he will be itching to get out of here.

we just need a quality unit of vets on the bench that’s it! 
 

oh and I really do like horford still and believe he can help this team. I’m willing to take on his horrible contract to get his expertise on this team. You don’t have to believe me but that’s the truth

[JayBirdHawk]

9 hours ago, NBASupes said:

. I hate to say this, but I feel like Charlotte has a blighter path to getting FAs this year and even worse, the Knicks are expected to be a superteam to get FAs this summer due to their cap and only having 2 players (3 including the draft) they will consider their core pieces. 

Latest from Charlotte, Mitch says otherwise:

Quote

“Even though we’ll have cap room, I don’t feel free-agency is the answer for us at this time,” Mitch Kupchak said. “So that talent is going to have to come from the draft or a trade.”

The NBA is not yet sure what number the cap will come in at due to the uncertainty surrounding the league's finances amid the COVID-19 pandemic.

“We don’t know what the cap is going to be. Fortunately for us, we’re not contract-heavy,” said Kupchak.

The Hornets, however, could use their cap space in a trade with teams looking to create more room.

“Cap room is generally considered a valuable asset,” Kupchak said. “Whether it’s to sign players or acquire a player in trade.”

RICK BONNELL/CHARLOTTE OBSERVER

Seems like every year the Knicks are a FA destinations, but yet........

[JTB]

1 hour ago, RedDawg#8 said:

No, this is where I disagree. The next step is Playoffs but our goal is to win a championship too.

If all we wanted to do was make the playoffs then Schlenk could have saved a lot of time and effort and kept the old core and Bud in place. 

The entire purpose of this rebuild was to strike gold in the draft on a superstar talent *check. Clear the books to be able to cash in and surround him with top tier FA's and then finally compete for Championships.

Playoffs is all Al Horford has ever achieved, whether it was us or anywhere else. But he is also soft and thats why his teams fold in the playoffs, because he isnt the big man at heart that he is on paper.

He is the perfect modern day 5 who still wants to prove he can play the 4. 

For HALF the price, he has value. But for the cost of that deal he is simply not worth it after we have just brought in Capella and JC will likely be a small ball 5 (hate it or love it our best lineup had him at the 5). I too believe we need vet leadership, but roster construction matters. Ask Philly about that, that's the real reason they are in trouble. They paid Al to be a starter and realized very soon that it simply could  not work for them.

Fact is, vet leadership off the bench doesn't cost 27 mil a year on a contender.

Find me any example where that was the case in the past.

Point is, our aspirations are much bigger than just making back to the playoffs, and there is no garuntee Al would single handedly do that for us, or that we wouldn't do it on our own anyway.

Lets wait and see what impact Capela could potentially make before we assume we need another big man with playoff experience, BBIQ and leadership. It might already be here for half the price and age.

Agree to Disagree on this one. 

 

Bro we gotta take it one step at a time! Let’s just get to the playoffs and worry about championship contention later. Horford only has 3 years left on his contract. Hawks have an extremely unrealistic chance at making the finals over the next 3 seasons.

even if we had horford by the time the final season came up on his contract he could be used as a trade asset need be.

our focus should strictly be on making the playoffs 

[nathan2331]

10 hours ago, NBASupes said:

We need players who have quality impact. We got a lot of talent, we don't have a lot of impact players. We really don't have any high impact players at all outside of Trae and he's a flawed high impact player as he's an elite positive in one section and one of the worst in the other. We need better players, vets in particular who can make the youngins better and not just put of numbers. 

I disagree we don't have enough players with impact. The problem we had is we had too many players who sucked playing significant minutes for us. Our roster outside our core players was garbage.

Allen Crabbe played 28 games for us, 18.6 MPG and was garbage.

Evan Turner played 13 games and was unplayable afterwards.

Damian Jones started 27 games for us, 55 played total. 887 total minutes.

Vince Carter 60 games, 876 minutes.

Treveon got 12 MPG for the 12 games he did play.

These are guys who should've been at the very end of the bench or out the league. Our other guys like Teague, Dedmon, Jabari, Len (when he wasn't starting) Goodwin, Bruno and Bembry were okay for their role, but none over performed.

Combined with our core who are talented but inconsistent outside of Trae and John and that's how we end up going 20-47.

I'm saying that nobody in the league wins with a roster like that. Replace those minutes with some solid players and we're closer to a .500 team. We need someone good enough that we don't have to rely on Reddish and Hunter for 30+ minutes every night. A backup for John that isn't a liability on both ends of the court. Having a guard that can actually challenge Huerter for minutes. I don't have a problem with the roster last season when the objective was development and a lottery pick at the end of the season. Now that we see how good Trae is already, replace our bums with guys that can play and we will be able to compete every night.

When we've got a duo in Trae and John who can get 50-60 points every night, we just need pieces to complement them. Nothing spectacular, just things like a backup PG that we didn't have until Teague came. A starting center we now have in Capela.

Now we need a backup for John and a wing that we can play for 30+ minutes without yelling at screen because they keep missing shots or keep getting burned on defense. Add a shooter somewhere and we're done. That's a playoff team so long as Capela and John work on the court which I think they can. With 40+ in cap space I don't get the pessimism like our problems are hard to fix.

[NBASupes]

Bause!!

[JayBirdHawk]

15 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Bause!!

Ha, he finally showed some stones muscling Tatum. He's been struggling and failing all game trying to post Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown.

[Spud2nique]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

Ha, he finally showed some stones muscling Tatum. He's been struggling and failing all game trying to post Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown.

D- post.