Benefits of bringing Horford back to ATL (long thread)

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, terrell said:

I just cant see Travis taking on that contract with 3 years left....

I can understand that logic but I know what's on the market as does he. He can't put expectations on LP of the playoffs with this young ass squad and no quality vets. It's literally impossible. These kids don't know how to win. 

[terrell]

8 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He was an amazing PF in his prime, he's been primarily effective as a center in Philly. He was a PF in Boston when it was him and Baynes on the court at the same time. It didn't work with Embiid though. In Atlanta, he will be a 5 who spots at the 4 and splits mins with Skal as a backup to JC.  

He was listed as a center in Boston..

And I wouldn't say he was amazing. If he were, he might still be there..

His best year in Boston he avg 13.6 points and 6.7 reb.

If thats amazing, what is Collins?

 

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by terrell

[JayBirdHawk]

6 minutes ago, terrell said:

I just cant see Travis taking on that contract with 3 years left....

He won't, it's makes ZERO financial sense long term for a backup on a team TRYING to make the playoffs.

[Peoriabird]

I find it weird that someone who thinks that $25 mil per year for John Collins is an over pay but is worth it for a back up center way past his prime!  Hawk fans...Gotta love them! Lol!

[NBASupes]

28 minutes ago, terrell said:

He was listed as a center in Boston..

And I wouldn't say he was amazing. If he were, he might still be there..

His best year in Boston he avg 13.6 points and 6.7 reb.

If thats amazing, what is Collins?

 

 

 

 

I know what he is listed as because I watched him play and he did play center. Boston uses him in a lot of positions. Hell, they are using Jayson Tatum as a PF right now. It's the way he plays that's most important. 

You can't used basic stats to quantify Al Horford. This is why I tend to be miles apart from you guys and exclusively with the coaches and GM's. I don't feel like fans understand Horford's value to winning basketball at all. 

[NBASupes]

29 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

He won't, it's makes ZERO financial sense long term for a backup on a team TRYING to make the playoffs.

If he's smart, he should. It makes 100% basketball sense to have Al Horford as a member of the Atlanta Hawks for a team TRYING to make the playoffs.

[JayBirdHawk]

32 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

If he's smart, he should. It makes 100% basketball sense to have Al Horford as a member of the Atlanta Hawks for a team TRYING to make the playoffs.

  He's smart and he won't. 

[marco102]

35 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

If he's smart, he should. It makes 100% basketball sense to have Al Horford as a member of the Atlanta Hawks for a team TRYING to make the playoffs.

They can do this with Paul Milsap too. I'd pay Paul $40 million next year before taking on Al's contract.  You know you're being biased about this and if it was any other player you'd be screaming at the top of your lungs about your dislike about it. 

I don't care about Al's WAR or whatever other stat you throw out. Paul Milsap would be just as good for this team in that veteran role.  I don't care if Paul's less available either. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by marco102

[Spud2nique]

14 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

  He's smart and he won't. 

DeAndre Bembry? Really? biiiiiiirrrrrrrrrrrreeeeerrrrraaaaaaaddddd!!

[NBASupes]

54 minutes ago, marco102 said:

They can do this with Paul Milsap too. I'd pay Paul $40 million next year before taking on Al's contract.  You know you're being biased about this and if it was any other player you'd be screaming at the top of your lungs about your dislike about it. 

I don't care about Al's WAR or whatever other stat you throw out. Paul Milsap would be just as good for this team in that veteran role.  I don't care if Paul's less available either. 

I have no issues getting Millsap. He's another high impact player. Obviously, my preference is Al but you give us Sap, Harrell, Horford, aka someone of high impact that's a vet, I am fine with it. No complaints for me. 

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

  He's smart and he won't. 

That's your opinion, my opinion say otherwise. We agree to disagree. 

[JayBirdHawk]

20 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I have no issues getting Millsap. He's another high impact player. Obviously, my preference is Al but you give us Sap, Harrell, Horford, aka someone of high impact that's a vet, I am fine with it. No complaints for me. 

That's your opinion, my opinion say otherwise. We agree to disagree. 

Yep, all good!

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

DeAndre Bembry? Really? biiiiiiirrrrrrrrrrrreeeeerrrrraaaaaaaddddd!!

 

[warcore]

Horford also doesn't go with Travis's comments about wanting to get players in their mid 20s that can grow with the team. I feel like he's going to go after the Jerami Grants/Derrick Jones Jr/Fred Vanvleets/Christian Woods's of the league. 

[Spud2nique]

57 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Yep, all good!

 

 

[JTB]

3 hours ago, warcore said:

Horford also doesn't go with Travis's comments about wanting to get players in their mid 20s that can grow with the team. I feel like he's going to go after the Jerami Grants/Derrick Jones Jr/Fred Vanvleets/Christian Woods's of the league. 

Very true... I have a good feeling Travis won’t commit to what he said . Not because he don’t want to but because the market of players available to Atlanta isn’t good and it’s going to force his hand ....if that makes any sense.

4 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

  He's smart and he won't. 

he probably won’t ...no shock there. The only issue with that is Schlenk is going down a similar road to past GMs thinking he can entice a star player in 2021 with a losing ass team (actually he’s smarter than that he knows that won’t work). I’m with supes in suggesting Al cause I know Schlenk can get him and 2nd I know al can still be impactful. Al was never a stats guy always was about the intangibles....Hawks shouldn’t even be talking about 2021...we should be looking at big time free agents once we actually establish ourselves. Worrying about tying up cap in good vet players shouldn’t be looked as a negative if playoffs is the real goal.

5 hours ago, terrell said:

He was listed as a center in Boston..

And I wouldn't say he was amazing. If he were, he might still be there..

His best year in Boston he avg 13.6 points and 6.7 reb.

If thats amazing, what is Collins?

 

 

 

 

Horford has never been about box score stats my friend...even when he made those all star games . It’s the intangibles...in some ways it’s very similar to Kyle Lowry who doesn’t have impressive jump out at you stats but he impacts the games in ways that don’t show up in box score .

5 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

I find it weird that someone who thinks that $25 mil per year for John Collins is an over pay but is worth it for a back up center way past his prime!  Hawk fans...Gotta love them! Lol!

not sure if you’re referring to supes or me but I never stated NOT to pay Collins what I’ve stated is that it’s going to be interesting to me if Schlenk actually opens up the wallet when it’s time to pay JC...I’ve always said JUST IN MY OPINION...it doesn’t seem like Schlenk is in love with JC. I don’t know why I feel that way it’s just a gut feeling. I don’t know Schlenk (of course)...I just get gut feeling that’s there’s something there where Schlenk isn’t all in on JC right now. However now that Collins isn’t forced to play alongside backup centers who had to start on this team I think my opinion will change once we see how improved the pf/c combo should be .again I never said not to pay Collins 

[marco102]

50 minutes ago, JTB said:

Very true... I have a good feeling Travis won’t commit to what he said . Not because he don’t want to but because the market of players available to Atlanta isn’t good and it’s going to force his hand ....if that makes any sense.

he probably won’t ...no shock there. The only issue with that is Schlenk is going down a similar road to past GMs thinking he can entice a star player in 2021 with a losing ass team (actually he’s smarter than that he knows that won’t work). I’m with supes in suggesting Al cause I know Schlenk can get him and 2nd I know al can still be impactful. Al was never a stats guy always was about the intangibles....Hawks shouldn’t even be talking about 2021...we should be looking at big time free agents once we actually establish ourselves. Worrying about tying up cap in good vet players shouldn’t be looked as a negative if playoffs is the real goal.

Horford has never been about box score stats my friend...even when he made those all star games . It’s the intangibles...in some ways it’s very similar to Kyle Lowry who doesn’t have impressive jump out at you stats but he impacts the games in ways that don’t show up in box score .

not sure if you’re referring to supes or me but I never stated NOT to pay Collins what I’ve stated is that it’s going to be interesting to me if Schlenk actually opens up the wallet when it’s time to pay JC...I’ve always said JUST IN MY OPINION...it doesn’t seem like Schlenk is in love with JC. I don’t know why I feel that way it’s just a gut feeling. I don’t know Schlenk (of course)...I just get gut feeling that’s there’s something there where Schlenk isn’t all in on JC right now. However now that Collins isn’t forced to play alongside backup centers who had to start on this team I think my opinion will change once we see how improved the pf/c combo should be .again I never said not to pay Collins 

Why not Milsap? 

Why does not bringing on a terrible contract make you think Schlenk's going down the wrong path? It seems he can find a just as effective player for cheaper somehow and younger.  I don't know who that is, but I'm against Al Horford and that contract. It stops you from doing so many other moves. 

I'm 100% against this and deep down you probably are too, but we need to discuss something.

Edited August 17, 2020 by marco102

[NBASupes]

4 hours ago, warcore said:

Horford also doesn't go with Travis's comments about wanting to get players in their mid 20s that can grow with the team. I feel like he's going to go after the Jerami Grants/Derrick Jones Jr/Fred Vanvleets/Christian Woods's of the league. 

This is true but what you have to remember is, we have to look at the reality of what we need and what's available. Ideally, we could use Giannis but is Giannis available and does he want to come to Atlanta?

Ideally, there are players higher on their tier list than Al due to his age and contract status but are those players available to us?

Shit, I would love to add Buddy Hield to our bench to rotation or even Evan Fournier from a talent perspective. But it's about asset cost and availability 

Edited August 17, 2020 by NBASupes

[marco102]

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

This is true but what you have to remember is, we have to look at the reality of what we need and what's available. Ideally, we could use Giannis but is Giannis available and does he want to come to Atlanta. 

Ideally, there are players higher on their tier list than Al due to his age and contract status but are those players available to us?

Why not spend $20 million on Demarcus Cousins.  He'll be just as effective at this point.

I'm being sarcastic by the way, but this is how outrageous this Al Horfod take is.

Edited August 17, 2020 by marco102

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

Why not spend $10 million on Demarcus Cousins.  He'll be just as effective at this point.

No he's not. That's a shitty hot take and one I would never say to a serious Basketball person. It shows a compete lack of understanding when it comes to impact and current status. Is Boogie even as good as trash like Whiteside at this stage much less near guys like Ibaka? 

Guys like Marc Gasol and Al Horford are a thousand tiers ahead of Boogie right now in terms of helping you win games and making your team better 

[marco102]

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

No he's not. That's a shitty hot take and one I would never say to a serious Basketball person. It shows a compete lack of understanding when it comes to impact and current status. Is Boogie even as good as trash like Whiteside at this stage much less near guys like Ibaka? 

Guys like Marc Gasol and Al Horford are a thousand tiers ahead of Boogie right now in terms of helping you win games and making your team better 

I was obvisously being sarcastic.  Marc Gasol I'm all for too.  He'd actually be really good here as far as a vet prescence.  

Leave Al in Philly.  I'd even give Gasol $20 million for next season if it was between him and bringing on Al's terrible $81 million over three years. 

Gasol

Milsap

Goran Dragic

I'd be all for those vets.

Edited August 17, 2020 by marco102

[NBASupes]

15 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I was obvisously being sarcastic.  Marc Gasol I'm all for too.  He'd actually be really good here as far as a vet prescence.  

Leave Al in Philly.  I'd even give Gasol $20 million for next season if it was between him and bringing on Al's terrible $81 million over three years. 

Gasol

Milsap

Goran Dragic

I'd be all for those vets.

Would Marc want to leave a starting situation on a contender where he just recently won a title to come off the bench in Atlanta? As I said, realistically, there are only so many moves we can make based on real availability. Vets in great situations are extremely likely to stay in there situation.

Edited August 17, 2020 by NBASupes