Is there any good reason why Cam should NOT start next season?

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Cwell said:

I'll never get over the fact that Hunter and Reddish attempted more FTs in one season than Heurter attempted in two seasons combined....while starting and playing lots of minutes. That's pitiful

It is a clear area that is "needs improvement."  Said it before that he needs to watch tape of Kevin Martin.  

[Cwell]

5 minutes ago, AHF said:

It is a clear area that is "needs improvement."  Said it before that he needs to watch tape of Kevin Martin.  

Judging by his first 2 years. Improvement ain’t really his thing. Hopefully he proves me wrong, but right now he just looks like a guy content with just being on an NBA roster 

[AHF]

12 minutes ago, Cwell said:

Judging by his first 2 years. Improvement ain’t really his thing. Hopefully he proves me wrong, but right now he just looks like a guy content with just being on an NBA roster 

We'll see.  There is the reason "sophomore slump" is a commonly known and used phrase.  I think it is significantly premature to think that he is just happy being on a roster.  He outperformed expectations his rookie season and underperformed last season during a year in which he repeatedly was limited or missed games entirely due to injuries.  

Plenty of players had struggles during their second seasons that limited improvements in their numbers like our own Joe Johnson's 2nd season (where he had almost identical numbers across the board other than a small increase in MPG and FGA and a slight decrease in scoring efficiency and per minute non-scoring production).  

[macdaddy]

22 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think LP wanted Cam coming off the bench last year because he started way too poorly to even think about starting and then when he made his big improvements it was in the context of coming off the bench so he didn't want to change that dynamic when Cam was making big strides.  It is possible he would want Cam to start off next season in the same role by that line of thinking. 

To me, Cam is the long-term starter and has made sufficient improvements to warrant getting that role from day 1.  But I don't view it as a slam dunk that LP agrees.  Either way, I expect Trae to play a lot of minutes with both Cam and Huerter.  

I agree.  I was kind of joking with my reply but the truth is we need either Hunter or Cam or Heurter to become an all star level player.    Cam is by far the most likely to do that.     Definitely don't want to slow him down unless he just can't handle starting.

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I agree.  I was kind of joking with my reply but the truth is we need either Hunter or Cam or Heurter to become an all star level player.    Cam is by far the most likely to do that.     Definitely don't want to slow him down unless he just can't handle starting.

[Cwell]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

We'll see.  There is the reason "sophomore slump" is a commonly known and used phrase.  I think it is significantly premature to think that he is just happy being on a roster.  He outperformed expectations his rookie season and underperformed last season during a year in which he repeatedly was limited or missed games entirely due to injuries.  

Plenty of players had struggles during their second seasons that limited improvements in their numbers like our own Joe Johnson's 2nd season (where he had almost identical numbers across the board other than a small increase in MPG and FGA and a slight decrease in scoring efficiency and per minute non-scoring production).  

Yeah but when you come in with a slight frame and over two years in with two full NBA off seasons, one of these extended and you still look the exact same. That’s a problem.

I can go look at his Maryland highlights now and see that exact same guy I see now. Then if I go and look at Trae’s Oklahoma highlights, I can tell that kid been putting in work in the gym

Show me you even give a damn about being great. 

[terrell]

3 hours ago, Cwell said:

I'll never get over the fact that Hunter and Reddish attempted more FTs in one season than Heurter attempted in two seasons combined....while starting and playing lots of minutes. That's pitiful

Wow..

[GThawks3]

56 minutes ago, Cwell said:

Yeah but when you come in with a slight frame and over two years in with two full NBA off seasons, one of these extended and you still look the exact same. That’s a problem.

I can go look at his Maryland highlights now and see that exact same guy I see now. Then if I go and look at Trae’s Oklahoma highlights, I can tell that kid been putting in work in the gym

Show me you even give a damn about being great. 

His ppg, rpg, apg were up - he had higher TS%, BPM etc. Not sure how he didn’t improve even if it was just a little in each category & of he got off to a slow start because of injuries. He’s still inconsistent but it’s not a surprise that a 21 yr old who had less than 60 career starts coming into the season (with arm/leg injuries) is inconsistent. Won’t be a star but still think Huerter is the type that will keep improving every year & be very valuable player in his prime.

[Bonkers]

4 hours ago, Cwell said:

I'll never get over the fact that Hunter and Reddish attempted more FTs in one season than Heurter attempted in two seasons combined....while starting and playing lots of minutes. That's pitiful

[Cwell]

2 hours ago, GThawks3 said:

His ppg, rpg, apg were up - he had higher TS%, BPM etc. Not sure how he didn’t improve even if it was just a little in each category & of he got off to a slow start because of injuries. He’s still inconsistent but it’s not a surprise that a 21 yr old who had less than 60 career starts coming into the season (with arm/leg injuries) is inconsistent. Won’t be a star but still think Huerter is the type that will keep improving every year & be very valuable player in his prime.

All those numbers went up slightly. Which makes sense when he played more minutes per game than he did in his rookie year. FG% the same. Still pitiful. 3 pt% the same which was already good. The only number he really improved on was FT%, which doesn’t really help when you only attempt 1 FT a game. How you play 30+ MPG and only attempt 64 FTs for an entire season?

He played 4 more minutes a game. Attempted 2 more shots a game. And only added 2 points to his average at the same efficiency. And still went weeks at a time without a single trip to the line. All while being a revolving door on defense. That’s not improvement

Edited October 20, 2020 by Cwell

[Bonkers]

35 minutes ago, Cwell said:

All those numbers went up slightly. Which makes sense when he played more minutes per game than he did in his rookie year. FG% the same. Still pitiful. 3 pt% the same which was already good. The only number he really improved on was FT%, which doesn’t really help when you only attempt 1 FT a game. How you play 30+ MPG and only attempt 64 FTs for an entire season?

He played 4 more minutes a game. Attempted 2 more shots a game. And only added 2 points to his average at the same efficiency. And still went weeks at a time without a single trip to the line. All while being a revolving door on defense. That’s not improvement

The people in here who are trying to somehow make a case for Kev are making ne laugh lmaooo

[AHF]

I'm really wondering where you guys are coming from on Huerter.  He is a very promising young player and the team's offense has been way better with him on the floor.  He does need to work to improve.  All our young players do.  Getting a healthy season out of him would be a good first step.

Anyone Hawks fan should be rooting for the kid.  Having a player with his skills is a really valuable guy on the team even if I think he should be coming off the bench.  

[GThawks3]

1 hour ago, Cwell said:

All those numbers went up slightly. Which makes sense when he played more minutes per game than he did in his rookie year. FG% the same. Still pitiful. 3 pt% the same which was already good. The only number he really improved on was FT%, which doesn’t really help when you only attempt 1 FT a game. How you play 30+ MPG and only attempt 64 FTs for an entire season?

He played 4 more minutes a game. Attempted 2 more shots a game. And only added 2 points to his average at the same efficiency. And still went weeks at a time without a single trip to the line. All while being a revolving door on defense. That’s not improvement

Huerter only has 17% usage & shoots more 3’s than 2’s + he’s a guy that tries to get everyone involved. Would like to see him get to line more for sure (& i do think he has potential in that area to improve) but not that a huge of surprise on that stat.......just would not write off a 21 yrd old that was injured most of the season averaging 12/4/4 on 54 TS% because he didn’t make a huge leap in year 2. If he was mid-late 20’s obviously with more experience + still wasn’t improving then I would 100% agree & be concerned. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by GThawks3

[Cwell]

55 minutes ago, GThawks3 said:

Huerter only has 17% usage & shoots more 3’s than 2’s + he’s a guy that tries to get everyone involved. Would like to see him get to line more for sure (& i do think he has potential in that area to improve) but not that a huge of surprise on that stat.......just would not write off a 21 yrd old that was injured most of the season averaging 12/4/4 on 54 TS% because he didn’t make a huge leap in year 2. If he was mid-late 20’s obviously with more experience + still wasn’t improving then I would 100% agree & be concerned. 

You just keep proving my point on why he's not a starter smh. You can try to spin it all you want, but call a spade a spade. Huerter is a 7th man at best being treated like a core peace. His usage rate is so low because he isn't aggressive enough, which also ties into his lack of free throws. Huerter has one true strength and that's 3pt shooting. If you're a 38% 3 pt shooter, considered the best on the team, then you need to be letting them fly. Great shooters only need a smidget of space and they're letting it fly. Huerter passes up open shots all the time. Why does he have to keep being told to be aggressive? Especially when he offers nothing else? There's a difference between being a passer and a creator. Huerter is a passer, not a creator. Why would you want someone in the starting lineup that doesn't make his defender even break a sweat to guard?

I just recently watched an interview with Earl Watson about his time with Phoenix (Gilbert Arenas podcast). He told PJ Tucker his role was defending and taking the open corner 3. If he's open and doesn't shoot it, he's taking him out the game. That needs to be Huerter. Instead Pierce just leaves him out there being Kevin HuertUS. Huerter is a loaded gun, that's always on safety. 

You're defending just to defend. Pointing out flaws isn't giving up on someone. Nobody's said anything false yet. "because he didn't make a huge leap in year 2" Who said that? He didn't make ANY LEAP. That's the problem. Technically his FG% and 3P% dropped from his rookie year. And that whole injury angle is tired

Bottom line, Kevin is a bench player.  a 3 pt specialist. Put him where he belongs, and stop trying to treat him like more.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Cwell

[GThawks3]

1 hour ago, Cwell said:

You just keep proving my point on why he's not a starter smh. You can try to spin it all you want, but call a spade a spade. Huerter is a 7th man at best being treated like a core peace. His usage rate is so low because he isn't aggressive enough, which also ties into his lack of free throws. Huerter has one true strength and that's 3pt shooting. If you're a 38% 3 pt shooter, considered the best on the team, then you need to be letting them fly. Great shooters only need a smidget of space and they're letting it fly. Huerter passes up open shots all the time. Why does he have to keep being told to be aggressive? Especially when he offers nothing else? There's a difference between being a passer and a creator. Huerter is a passer, not a creator. Why would you want someone in the starting lineup that doesn't make his defender even break a sweat to guard?

I just recently watched an interview with Earl Watson about his time with Phoenix (Gilbert Arenas podcast). He told PJ Tucker his role was defending and taking the open corner 3. If he's open and doesn't shoot it, he's taking him out the game. That needs to be Huerter. Instead Pierce just leaves him out there being Kevin HuertUS. Huerter is a loaded gun, that's always on safety. 

You're defending just to defend. Pointing out flaws isn't giving up on someone. Nobody's said anything false yet. "because he didn't make a huge leap in year 2" Who said that? He didn't make ANY LEAP. That's the problem. Technically his FG% and 3P% dropped from his rookie year. And that whole injury angle is tired

Bottom line, Kevin is a bench player.  a 3 pt specialist. Put him where he belongs, and stop trying to treat him like more.

He shot 6 3pointers which was 2nd on the  team & 50th in the nba. Not sure where you’re getting he doesn’t shoot open 3’s. Don’t really care about FG% & you act like a younger player asked to be more aggressive is uncommon. 

Year 2:

Joe Johnson - 10/3/3 - 47 TS% (21 yrs)

Kevin Huerter - 12/4/4 - 54 TS% (21 yrs)

Kyle Korver - 11/4/2 - 59 TS% (23 yrs)

Reddick was playing 8 mpg as a 23 yr old sophomore....didn’t break out until 25 yrs old.....

Also my ideal world has Huerter coming off the bench so not sure what you’re talking about there. Sorry it’s hurts you that I think he has a higher ceiling than you do. 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2020 by GThawks3

[Bonkers]

43 minutes ago, GThawks3 said:

He shot 6 3pointers which was 2nd on the  team & 50th in the nba. Not sure where you’re getting he doesn’t shoot open 3’s. Don’t really care about FG% & you act like a younger player asked to be more aggressive is uncommon. 

Year 2:

Joe Johnson - 10/3/3 - 47 TS% (21 yrs)

Kevin Huerter - 12/4/4 - 54 TS% (21 yrs)

Kyle Korver - 11/4/2 - 59 TS% (23 yrs)

Reddick was playing 8 mpg as a 23 yr old sophomore....didn’t break out until 25 yrs old.....

Also my ideal world has Huerter coming off the bench so not sure what you’re talking about there. Sorry it’s hurts you that I think he has a higher ceiling than you do. 

 

 

Stop, just STOP comparing players from different times

Do I need to educate u on how different eras of the NBA had different PACES???

 

The NBA Pace in 01-02 (Joe's 2nd year) was 90.7

The NBA Pace in 19-20 (Kev's 2nd year) was 100.3

 

Your point is lazy and 100% invalid buddy. The fact you are comparing Huerter to JJ just based on eye test is ridiculous. Stop insulting Joe. Just STOP

 

All we are saying is Kev is a BENCH PLAYER. What is so hard to understand about that. Now some of you are resorting to insulting other players (and yes trying to put Kev on the same level as Joe is an insult to Joe) is just blowing my mind

Edited October 21, 2020 by Bonkers

[Sothron]

Guys take it a down a notch. We all wants each Hawks player to be great and continue to grow.

I don't see the next Joe Johnson in Red Velvet but he definitely has skill and is improving. I think he'd make a great sixth man.

[GThawks3]

23 minutes ago, Bonkers said:

Stop, just STOP comparing players from different times

Do I need to educate u on how different eras of the NBA had different PACES???

 

The NBA Pace in 01-02 (Joe's 2nd year) was 90.7

The NBA Pace in 19-20 (Kev's 2nd year) was 100.3

 

Your point is 100% invalid buddy. The fact you are comparing Huerter to JJ just based on eye test is ridiculous. Stop insulting Joe. Just STOP

Yikes, the point of my post is to not write off Huerter yet because he didn’t make serious improvement in year 2 of his injury riddle short season.... not that he’s going to be the next JJ.
 

Another player with similar stats is Middleton who was a 12/4/2 on - 54 TS% with a worse BPM in his sophomore yr at 22 yrs & not too long ago....And no not saying he’s the next KM.

Also in the Hawks first 40 games (8-32 start) they were dead last in the nba in ORTG & by far the worst shooting 3 point team in the league. When the offense improved   in last 26 games theHawks went 12-14. Hawks don’t need to be just thinking of defense next to Trae. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2020 by GThawks3

[Cwell]

2 hours ago, GThawks3 said:

He shot 6 3pointers which was 2nd on the  team & 50th in the nba. Not sure where you’re getting he doesn’t shoot open 3’s. Don’t really care about FG% & you act like a younger player asked to be more aggressive is uncommon. 

Year 2:

Joe Johnson - 10/3/3 - 47 TS% (21 yrs)

Kevin Huerter - 12/4/4 - 54 TS% (21 yrs)

Kyle Korver - 11/4/2 - 59 TS% (23 yrs)

Reddick was playing 8 mpg as a 23 yr old sophomore....didn’t break out until 25 yrs old.....

Also my ideal world has Huerter coming off the bench so not sure what you’re talking about there. Sorry it’s hurts you that I think he has a higher ceiling than you do. 

 

 

The whole point of this thread is about should Cam start over Huerter. My whole stance has been Huerter is a bench player being overrated by this team and by this board as something he isn’t. He’s a bench player being treated as a starter. He should be coming off the bench playing 20-25 minutes max. Not starting playing 30+ giving defenders the day off
 

He’s another Kyle Korver type being misused like Korver was misused in Atlanta. We tried to turn a 7th man 3pt specialist into a starter and key piece and it backfired when he became useless in the playoffs like his entire career. You don’t build your team around that. 
 

Comparing Huerter to random players drafted almost 20 years ago with different skill sets is pointless. It screams “I’m cherry picking to support my argument”. 

Point blank, Huerter is a bench player being treated as a starter that didn’t improve a lick from year one to year two. These facts can’t be disputed so leave it alone. Not once has someone said Huerter is trash, get rid of him he’s worthless. 
 

....although if he was traded tomorrow I wouldn’t give two fricks  

Edited October 21, 2020 by Cwell

[GThawks3]

26 minutes ago, Cwell said:

The whole point of this thread is about should Cam start over Huerter. My whole stance has been Huerter is a bench player being overrated by this team and by this board as something he isn’t. He’s a bench player being treated as a starter. He should be coming off the bench playing 20-25 minutes max. Not starting playing 30+ giving defenders the day off
 

He’s another Kyle Korver type being misused like Korver was misused in Atlanta. We tried to turn a 7th man 3pt specialist into a starter and key piece and it backfired when he became useless in the playoffs like his entire career. You don’t build your team around that. 
 

Comparing Huerter to random players drafted almost 20 years ago with different skill sets is pointless. It screams “I’m cherry picking to support my argument”. 

Point blank, Huerter is a bench player being treated as a starter that didn’t improve a lick from year one to year two. These facts can’t be disputed so leave it alone. Not once has someone said Huerter is trash, get rid of him he’s worthless. 
 

....although if he was traded tomorrow I wouldn’t give two fricks  

I want Cam starting too but I like his skill set better at the 3.

Not seeing anyone saying Hawks should build around Huerter just find it weird that you act like he’s topped out already. That was the point of my comparisons btw..... Korver could not shoot/score off the dribble & did not have the passing ability of Huerter. 

I hope not outside of an overpay as he’s the only guy on the team besides Trae that averaged more than 2+ apg & one of the better shooters on the team. I think this is a big reason why has been the starter next to Trae....problem is more on the other side imo.