Is there any good reason why Cam should NOT start next season?

[RedDawg#8]

Yall got to stop with this Korver mess.

I like Cam as much as the next guy. I see him as a future star too. But that does not mean we have to diminish the skillset of Heurter.
He lacks aggressiveness, period. Thats it. But he is more than a spot up shooter. 
Kev must improve defensively, but the traits are there that he can be average someday. Let the young guys grow, thats all I can say. Start Cam, yes. But do not just stick Kev in a corner, thats beyond stupid.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

20 hours ago, Cwell said:

I'll never get over the fact that Hunter and Reddish attempted more FTs in one season than Heurter attempted in two seasons combined....while starting and playing lots of minutes. That's pitiful

Besides the fact that it has been noted by most Squawkers, LP, his teammates and KH himself that he is still a work in progress with his drives to the basket and getting to the free throw line, for a guy that has shot MORE 3 POINTERS THAT 2 POINTERS in his short career, I'm not sure why his free throw rate is surprising, particularly when that is his most intriguing skillset. 

[Cwell]

34 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Besides the fact that it has been noted by most Squawkers, LP, his teammates and KH himself that he is still a work in progress with his drives to the basket and getting to the free throw line, for a guy that has shot MORE 3 POINTERS THAT 2 POINTERS in his short career, I'm not sure why his free throw rate is surprising, particularly when that is his most intriguing skillset. 

No matter how that cookie crumbles, that’s pitiful. There’s zero excuse for your starting 2 guard, who plays 30 minutes a night, to be out here going on 5-10 game stretches without a single FT attempt. 
 

Kevin has played in 131 games, starting 107. He averages  around 30 minutes a night. He’s only attempted 120 free throws in 2 years. There’s no excuse for that. He only attempted 127 in 2 years at Maryland, so this isn’t just some coincidence. Cam attempted 114 in 1 year at Duke surrounded by talent , and Trae 274 at Oklahoma. If Trae wasn’t among the best in the league at drawing fouls we’d never put teams in the penalty. Opposing teams best perimeter defenders almost never have to worry about being in foul trouble against us. Just stick him on Kevin Huertus 

 

People tried to say Kevin was going to be our Klay lmao even Klay will get you at least 200 attempts at the stripe. 
 

You will RARELY see somebody that’s been ass at something their whole life all of a sudden turn average. Especially something that’s mentality based. 

[Cwell]

10 hours ago, GThawks3 said:

I want Cam starting too but I like his skill set better at the 3.

Not seeing anyone saying Hawks should build around Huerter just find it weird that you act like he’s topped out already. That was the point of my comparisons btw..... Korver could not shoot/score off the dribble & did not have the passing ability of Huerter. 

I hope not outside of an overpay as he’s the only guy on the team besides Trae that averaged more than 2+ apg & one of the better shooters on the team. I think this is a big reason why has been the starter next to Trae....problem is more on the other side imo. 

Cams skill set is more of a big guard than a small forward. He can play the 3 but maximizing Cams abilities is at the 2. The ONLY reason people will say Cam is a 3 is his height. Why not take advantage of that height advantage?

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, Cwell said:

People tried to say Kevin was going to be our Klay lmao even Klay will get you at least 200 attempts at the stripe. 

Forest for the t(h)rees - again I say MORE 3s than 2s taken.

[Cwell]

25 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Forest for the t(h)rees - again I say MORE 3s than 2s taken.

And what’s your point? You say that like you can’t draw fouls on jump shots. More than anything that once again shows why he shouldn’t be starting or playing as much. If you’re going to be playing that type of role you need to be in the 40% club. Which he isn’t. Where’s the versatility?

Since y’all like to cherry pick random players. Steph Curry shoots more 3s than 2s and still gets to the FT line. \purple

But seriously Davis Bertans shot way more 3s (9 attempts) than 2s (3 attempts) and shot more FTs this year than Huerters entire career as well

Side note: good to see you share your opinion with us for a change. I thought you only posted links lol no disrespect

 

Edited October 21, 2020 by Cwell

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, Cwell said:

And what’s your point? You say that like you can’t draw fouls on jump shots. More than anything that once again shows why he shouldn’t be starting or playing as much. If you’re going to be playing that type of role you need to be in the 40% club. Which he isn’t. Where’s the versatility?

Since y’all like to cherry pick random players. Steph Curry shoots more 3s than 2s and still gets to the FT line. \purple

Side note: good to see you share your opinion with us for a change. I thought you only posted links lol no disrespect

 

If only that were true in his 1st 2 years (took him 7 years), you may have a point, but not really. 

I post my opinions when I feel like it, I complain when I need to, I praise when I need to, I post trade ideas,  I ask questions, I give answers etc.  - but limited to posting links.

I share links here because it's Hawks home and there is a lot of info out there from varying sources, so for those that want one place for Hawks info it's readily available.

I find when people say 'No disrespect' it just makes me

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

If only that were true in his 1st 2 years (took him 7 years), you may have a point, but not really. 

I post my opinions when I feel like it, I complain when I need to, I praise when I need to, I post trade ideas,  I ask questions, I give answers etc.  - but limited to posting links.

I share links here because it's Hawks home and there is a lot of info out there from varying sources, so for those that want one place for Hawks info it's readily available.

I find when people say 'No disrespect' it just makes me

 

[Peoriabird]

23 minutes ago, Cwell said:

And what’s your point? You say that like you can’t draw fouls on jump shots. More than anything that once again shows why he shouldn’t be starting or playing as much. If you’re going to be playing that type of role you need to be in the 40% club. Which he isn’t. Where’s the versatility?

Since y’all like to cherry pick random players. Steph Curry shoots more 3s than 2s and still gets to the FT line. \purple

But seriously Davis Bertans shot way more 3s (9 attempts) than 2s (3 attempts) and shot more FTs this year than Huerters entire career as well

Side note: good to see you share your opinion with us for a change. I thought you only posted links lol no disrespect

 

I think that Cwell is spot on with his analysis and his logic should be obvious to everyone including the head coach.  We can continue to scratch our heads about why this team under performs if you want but this is an excellent example of why poor decisions by the coaching staff holds this team back.

[AHF]

13 hours ago, Sothron said:

Guys take it a down a notch. We all want each Hawks player to be great and continue to grow.

I don't see the next Joe Johnson in Red Velvet but he definitely has skill and is improving. I think he'd make a great sixth man.

Not sure I believe that given the tone of these posts.  The condescending tone and joyful criticism of him....it doesn't feel like it.

I don't see him as the next JJ either but assuming he won't improve is crazy.  Pace does not explain Huerter's better number (if you adjust for pace Huerter is still better in basically every counting stat and on his shooting %s in every category).

Huerter should be an important part of the puzzle for this team.  Plenty to improve on but a key player for the team.  Reddish is a more special player, imo, and should be starting ahead of him but that isn't a slam on Huerter.  I'm very high on Reddish.

[AHF]

As an aside, it is hardly unique that Huerter had a disproportionate number of 3pt attempts compared to free throw attempts.  Here are a few others with a similar 4-8 3pta/gm and 1.x fta/gm:

Robert Covington:  480 3pta, 99 fta

Taurean Prince:  432 3pta, 89 fta

Joe Harris:  406 3pta, 89 fta

Lonzo Ball:  395 3pta, 76 fta

Langston Galloway:  331 3pta, 85 fta

Seth Curry: 321 3pta, 97 fta

Eric Gordon:  303 3pta, 107 fta

Tyler Herro:  298 3pta, 100 fta

Al Horford:  283 3pta, 80 fta

 

All of these players would benefit by doing more to get to the line.  Huerter absolutely included.  Drawing fouls, stepping up his aggression and improving on defense are three of the lowest hanging fruit areas for improvement for him.  

All our young core guys have clear areas where improvement is needed.  All our young core guys have some really enticing skills and seem to be on a path to being major contributors in the future. 

 

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

All our young core guys have clear areas where improvement is needed.  All our young core guys have some really enticing skills and seem to be on a path to being major contributors in the future. 

Yeah, we're discussing guys who are all 22 and under and complaining about parts of their game that it takes most players years to master.     I guess this is what you get with a 10 month offseason.   

All of the core guys have a performed at a high level so far.   

[Cwell]

5 hours ago, AHF said:

As an aside, it is hardly unique that Huerter had a disproportionate number of 3pt attempts compared to free throw attempts.  Here are a few others with a similar 4-8 3pta/gm and 1.x fta/gm:

Robert Covington:  480 3pta, 99 fta

Taurean Prince:  432 3pta, 89 fta

Joe Harris:  406 3pta, 89 fta

Lonzo Ball:  395 3pta, 76 fta

Langston Galloway:  331 3pta, 85 fta

Seth Curry: 321 3pta, 97 fta

Eric Gordon:  303 3pta, 107 fta

Tyler Herro:  298 3pta, 100 fta

Al Horford:  283 3pta, 80 fta

 

All of these players would benefit by doing more to get to the line.  Huerter absolutely included.  Drawing fouls, stepping up his aggression and improving on defense are three of the lowest hanging fruit areas for improvement for him.  

All our young core guys have clear areas where improvement is needed.  All our young core guys have some really enticing skills and seem to be on a path to being major contributors in the future. 

 

Barely none of those guys you named are starting guards that play 30+ minutes a night. And how many are above 4th on the pecking order on their teams? (We treat Kevin like a 3rd option)The only one might be Lonzo, and I don’t blame him. He can’t shoot FTs to save his life lol

Edited October 21, 2020 by Cwell

[Cwell]

5 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

If only that were true in his 1st 2 years (took him 7 years), you may have a point, but not really. 

Bertans is only 4 years in and this was his only year playing 30 minutes a night. Less than 15 his first 2 years and 21 his 3rd. Why do new random stipulations have to keep being added on to try to change the narrative?

Anybody can pick a random player that has nothing to do with nothing to fit their argument.

[Sothron]

I don't understand the FT complaint with Kevin. His role is to be a three point shooter first, last, always and somewhere in there be a ball distributor as well. Sure it would be great if he faked a three and drove to the rim but being a slasher isn't his skillset. And frankly expecting him to be able to do everything at a high level is setting false expectations.

[JayBirdHawk]

44 minutes ago, Cwell said:

Bertans is only 4 years in and this was his only year playing 30 minutes a night. Less than 15 his first 2 years and 21 his 3rd. Why do new random stipulations have to keep being added on to try to change the narrative?

Anybody can pick a random player that has nothing to do with nothing to fit their argument.

uuummm......mmmmmmm.... YOU were the one who brought in Steph and now Bertans, nowhere did I make any reference to either of these players. 

My initial comment was a stand alone comment strictly in regards to KH's lack of free throw attempts - that taking MORE 3 than 2s over his first 2 season means less chances to get to the free throw line.  

[Peoriabird]

14 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I don't understand the FT complaint with Kevin. His role is to be a three point shooter first

Why do posters get lost in a discussion.  The discussion was whether your starting shooting guard should get to the line and if he doesn't, should he start over someone who does?

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Cwell said:

Barely none of those guys you named are starting guards that play 30+ minutes a night. And how many are above 4th on the pecking order on their teams? (We treat Kevin like a 3rd option)The only one might be Lonzo, and I don’t blame him. He can’t shoot FTs to save his life lol

I have no idea where you are going with this.

Starts / Minutes / Position

Does position matter in this?  Are you arguing that someone like Robert Covington (who started 68 of 70 games and averaged over 30 mpg) is somehow less capable of drawing fouls than a guard whose primary job on offense is to stretch the floor? 

Joe Harris started every game for the last two seasons and averaged over 30 mpg.  Prince started 61 games and averaged 29 per game.  Ball started 52 and averaged 32 mpg.  

But who even cares about number of starts or position or minutes?  I don't get how that connects to the underlying issue which is FT rate.  These players all have a focus on spreading the floor for their teams and consequently end up shooting a ton of 3's but don't end up with many free throws.  It is hardly unique to have a floor spreader with that dynamic.  Guys who overcome it  and improve their ability to draw fouls help their teams but some guys never do, just like some guys never learn to rebound effectively.  I'm hoping Huerter is one who does expand that side of his game.  He is a good enough FT shooter that it would be a benefit to the team.

Priority in the Team's Offense

The team's third option?  He was 8th on the team in FGA/minute last season among regulars in our rotation (a couple of others had more shots per minute than he did but I'm not counting them).  Not sure how you turn that into an expectation that he is leading the offense.  On a non-per-minute basis, the shots per game went:

21.2 Trae

14.8 Collins

12.9 Parker

10.9 Huerter

10.8 Hunter

But Huerter is somehow the clear #3 guy with heightened expectations for drawing fouls?  Seems like you are raising the bar just to try to knock the guy down.

[Cwell]

10 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

uuummm......mmmmmmm.... YOU were the one who brought in Steph and now Bertans, nowhere did I make any reference to either of these players. 

My initial comment was a stand alone comment strictly in regards to KH's lack of free throw attempts - that taking MORE 3 than 2s over his first 2 season means less chances to get to the free throw line.  

You quoted a post that led to a discussion that was already ongoing. So everything gets put together. I brought them up because Joe Johnson and Kyle Korver and JJ Redick on other random players were brought up throughout this thread. That’s the only reason I brought them up. I even put the purple thing after saying Steph. Guess nobody gets my sarcasm lol

and taking more 3s than 2s could be an argument, but it isn’t when you consider the fact that Kevin goes weeks at a time without a single FT attempt. There’s no excuse for being that bad at something when you’re treated like a key piece. Hence what this entire thread is about. Should Kevin start over Cam

My very first post was Cam is a starter in this league and Kevin isn’t, and went into detail why. I’ve stuck to that the entire time. 

Edited October 21, 2020 by Cwell

[JayBirdHawk]

55 minutes ago, Cwell said:

 

My very first post was Cam is a starter in this league and Kevin isn’t, and went into detail why. I’ve stuck to that the entire time. 

uuummm...no, not really. Two things:

1 .  the thread creator started the discussion regarding his free throws

2. Not when your 2nd post in this thread was in response to said free throw totals, which was what I responded to after my initial response to the thread topic.