More than 48 Hrs til the next round starts, so here's a question about the future growth of the team...

[REHawksFan]

Given the CAP restraints going forward and the guys that will need an extension / new contract this offseason (JC in FA, Trae and Kev with rookie extensions), do you think it's more likely that the growth and improvement will come internally through the plethora of young players continuing to get better OR do you think Schlenk tries to use the young talent to trade for a star player and add to the team this way? 

I still maintain we don't actually know what the ceiling of *this* team is, but we can all agree they are so young that nearly all of them are still in the development stage of their careers.  Assuming they don't win a title this season, how would you go about getting better to advance further in the playoffs in the future?  Internally or Externally???  Or Both?  

I have a bad habit of getting attached to players on the team (especially this team that has been so much fun to watch) so I have a hard time coming up with players I'm willing to trade away.  Therefore, my preference would be to sign JC, extend Trae and Kev and run it back as is with continued focus this offseason on internal growth of the young players AND adding pieces around the edges to solidify the backup PG spot and lengthen the bench. 

  

[Guest]

If we somehow make a deep run in the playoffs, and our young guys increase their value exponentially, then it might make sense to package a couple for a superstar, if possible, to more safely ensure another step upwards versus hoping for internal growth to continue.  We may just have too many good wings to pay for, or have minutes for.  Hard to say either way, for sure.  

[HawkingAwesome]

Its a good problem to have. Ill throw out a crazy idea.

 

Try and pair trae with zion.

[sturt]

The great thing about developing internally (... as-if there's only one, right?) ... is that when Huerter [or insert other name here] gets to the end of his contract, Schlenk gets the advantage, if he so chooses, of an objective/quantifiable measure of Huerter's value on the open market... and then, can decide for himself whether that value is more, less, or the same as the value he places on the young asset.

What's more, besides letting him go or re-signing him, Schlenk also can anticipate the possibility of a sign-and-trade deal, possibly bringing back some other asset he values more, or at the very least, bringing back a substantial exception with which he can anticipate acquiring such an asset later on.

But. I think these decisions--keep and develop, or trade for a more proven and productive talent--are necessarily made on a case-by-case basis, as opposed to being made as part of some predetermined strategy. To that point... there was a time not very long ago... "just yesterday," indeed, in terms of NBA time... that giving up some young potential talent for a Drummond or an Oladipo would not have been ridiculous to some. Indeed, the futures (and thus, trade value) of some of the biggest names from just last year's NBA Finals, today, are tangibly less regarded because of what happened with their teams this season. You just have to evaluate each opportunity on its own merits, as there's not much wisdom in making a big move because the strategic plan says, "go make a big move."

[thecampster]

3 hours ago, HawkingAwesome said:

Its a good problem to have. Ill throw out a crazy idea.

 

Try and pair trae with zion.

I want no part of Zion. No problem with his game, I just would never trust that much weight jumping that high, that often to not lead to foot, ankle, knee problems. The Falcons however could use him at Defensive End.

[thecampster]

5 minutes ago, sturt said:

The great thing about developing internally (... as-if there's only one, right?) ... is that when Huerter [or insert other name here] gets to the end of his contract, Schlenk gets the advantage, if he so chooses, of an objective/quantifiable measure of Huerter's value on the open market... and then, can decide for himself whether that value is more, less, or the same as the value he places on the young asset.

What's more, besides letting him go or re-signing him, Schlenk also can anticipate the possibility of a sign-and-trade deal, possibly bringing back some other asset he values more, or at the very least, bringing back a substantial exception with which he can anticipate acquiring such an asset later on.

But. I think these decisions--keep and develop, or trade for a more proven and productive talent--are necessarily made on a case-by-case basis, as opposed to being made as part of some predetermined strategy. To that point... there was a time not very long ago... "just yesterday," indeed, in terms of NBA time... that giving up some young potential talent for a Drummond or an Oladipo would not have been ridiculous to some. Indeed, the futures (and thus, trade value) of some of the biggest names from just last year's NBA Finals, today, are tangibly less regarded because of what happened with their teams this season. You just have to evaluate each opportunity on its own merits, as there's not much wisdom in making a big move because the strategic plan says, "go make a big move."

I can't objectively see Huerter remaining a Hawk long term. After his improvement this season and his showing in the playoffs, someone is going to throw $15 million at him just to see if he takes it.

[JayBirdHawk]

5 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

Given the CAP restraints going forward and the guys that will need an extension / new contract this offseason (JC in FA, Trae and Kev with rookie extensions), do you think it's more likely that the growth and improvement will come internally through the plethora of young players continuing to get better OR do you think Schlenk tries to use the young talent to trade for a star player and add to the team this way? 

I still maintain we don't actually know what the ceiling of *this* team is, but we can all agree they are so young that nearly all of them are still in the development stage of their careers.  Assuming they don't win a title this season, how would you go about getting better to advance further in the playoffs in the future?  Internally or Externally???  Or Both?  

I have a bad habit of getting attached to players on the team (especially this team that has been so much fun to watch) so I have a hard time coming up with players I'm willing to trade away.  Therefore, my preference would be to sign JC, extend Trae and Kev and run it back as is with continued focus this offseason on internal growth of the young players AND adding pieces around the edges to solidify the backup PG spot and lengthen the bench. 

 

Development isn't always linear, see Cam vs Hunter.  I would never assume we keep all our guys and pay them - ideally you want them to be so good, other teams want them and the return you get pushes you over the top.

Huerter for example:

• do the Hawks offer him an early extension this offseason? 
• do they package him with pick 20 to either move up in the draft or for another player currently under a longer term contract?  (see OKC and Harden trade)
• what if Huerter wants an opportunity to start elsewhere and declines an early extension and decides he want to test RFAcy
• are the Hawks willing to match any offer in RFA (we saw what shooters got this past offseason)

 

[JeffS17]

The interesting thing about Kev is that he's not THAT great of a shooter.  He's solid but he's not like Joe Harris or Duncan Robinson or Seth Curry.  I think a lot of ppl assume he's an elite shooter just because he's white but it's his defense that probably bumps his value up more than anything right now.  His 3P% is pretty good but most of his looks are wide open thanks to Trae and he has a slow as hell release.  I feel like he's consistently overrated as a shooter.  He's nowhere near the top 3P shooters in the league and unless he changes his shot I don't see him getting there.  

With that said, I would love for us to resign him because he's been getting better and his defense has been really nice.  I just don't know how much he's really going to command in the open market.  $15M feels high for him but he can always bet on himself like JC did

Meant to quote your reply on this one @thecampster

Edited June 4, 2021 by JeffS17

[JeffS17]

The other thing about Kev is he rarely has flashes of greatness on offense.  Like a lot of great 3P shooters will have a night where they go 7/9 from 3 or get hot like Gallo against the Celtics, Bogi's hot streak this year, etc.  Kev never really has that, even when he's getting getting a lot of attempts and open looks.  I'd just be a little bit hesitant to overpay him.  That hitch in his shot limits what he can do as well

[JayBirdHawk]

Just now, JeffS17 said:

The interesting thing about Kev is that he's not THAT great of a shooter.  He's solid but he's not like Joe Harris or Duncan Robinson or Seth Curry.  I think a lot of ppl assume he's an elite shooter just because he's white but it's his defense that probably bumps his value up more than anything right now.  His 3P% is pretty good but most of his looks are wide open thanks to Trae and he has a slow as hell release.  I feel like he's consistently overrated as a shooter.  He's nowhere near the top 3P shooters in the league and unless he changes his shot I don't see him getting there.  

With that said, I would love for us to resign him because he's been getting better and his defense has been really nice.

Agreed, he lacks consistency.  He was disappointed at the end of last season with 38% and said his expectation was to hit 40% and that would be the focus this season, he fell short of that though.  

I think his ability to play multiple positions, as a starter and off the bench and transition relatively easy, his improved defense, the improving ability to put the ball on the floor and hit the midrange bode well for him.

[REHawksFan]

5 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Agreed, he lacks consistency.  He was disappointed at the end of last season with 38% and said his expectation was to hit 40% and that would be the focus this season, he fell short of that though.  

I think his ability to play multiple positions, as a starter and off the bench and transition relatively easy, his improved defense, the improving ability to put the ball on the floor and hit the midrange bode well for him.

I think Kevin has a place on this team.....at the right price.  A team can never have too many shooters.  I don't view him as a starter, but 3-D with a little bit of playmaking ability has a role. 

I don't know what the right price is, but if they can extend him on a team friendly deal before he really becomes high value to the rest of the league, I'm all for it.  

Edited June 4, 2021 by REHawksFan

[RedDawg#8]

Everyone has a place on the team, its just a matter of at what cost and if they are willing to stay for less than they can potentially earn elsewhere?

[HawkingAwesome]

3 hours ago, thecampster said:

I want no part of Zion. No problem with his game, I just would never trust that much weight jumping that high, that often to not lead to foot, ankle, knee problems. The Falcons however could use him at Defensive End.

I didn't say it was a GOOD idea just crazy. 

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

The interesting thing about Kev is that he's not THAT great of a shooter.  He's solid but he's not like Joe Harris or Duncan Robinson or Seth Curry.  I think a lot of ppl assume he's an elite shooter just because he's white but it's his defense that probably bumps his value up more than anything right now.  His 3P% is pretty good but most of his looks are wide open thanks to Trae and he has a slow as hell release.  I feel like he's consistently overrated as a shooter.  He's nowhere near the top 3P shooters in the league and unless he changes his shot I don't see him getting there.  

With that said, I would love for us to resign him because he's been getting better and his defense has been really nice.  I just don't know how much he's really going to command in the open market.  $15M feels high for him but he can always bet on himself like JC did

Meant to quote your reply on this one @thecampster

He's 22. Most people don't really develop their 3 point shot until that 25-27 range. Career 37.3% at 22 is elite.   Harris is 29. His first 3 years in the league (22-24) he was right at 37%.  26 years old...boom 47%

Kevin projects as a 42% guy in the next few years...but at 22...yah 36-38% is elite.

[sturt]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

a lot of ppl assume he's an elite shooter just because he's white

Can't help myself. And not that I'm interested in pursuing any discussion of course... but... am I the only one who went...

 

 

 

[JeffS17]

19 minutes ago, sturt said:

Can't help myself. And not that I'm interested in pursuing any discussion of course... but... am I the only one who went...

 

 

 

Yeah, should have left race out of that, but I see that stereotype quite a bit so thought it was relevant.  I see it in the media, amongst writers, and hear things in person. 

[JeffS17]

31 minutes ago, thecampster said:

He's 22. Most people don't really develop their 3 point shot until that 25-27 range. Career 37.3% at 22 is elite.   Harris is 29. His first 3 years in the league (22-24) he was right at 37%.  26 years old...boom 47%

Kevin projects as a 42% guy in the next few years...but at 22...yah 36-38% is elite.

That's fair but he's also not going to hit his prime under his next contract.  He shouldn't get paid like he's Joe Harris until he proves he is Joe Harris (although he will be a better defender so it's not a great comparison).  I'm only talking about right now because we're about to have to make a decision on his contract either this summer or next.

[thecampster]

There is an existing stereotype but I'm not sure its relevant to this discussion. There's enough tape on Kev to know.

[NBASupes]

3 hours ago, thecampster said:

I can't objectively see Huerter remaining a Hawk long term. After his improvement this season and his showing in the playoffs, someone is going to throw $15 million at him just to see if he takes it.

He has a wanted skill-set. The most wanted skill-set for his level of player. I can't see him being cheap. He would be a fool to take less money when there is a need for his skill-set at his level. 

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

He has a wanted skill-set. The most wanted skill-set for his level of player. I can't see him being cheap. He would be a fool to take less money when there is a need for his skill-set at his level. 

Supes you going into Sunday with the outfit you got on or you doin formal evening wear (avatar) or biz casual.